MovieChat Forums > After Porn Ends (2012) Discussion > The casualties

The casualties

posted 14 years ago by lor_
14 replies | jump to latest

I will be curious to see how this documentary treats the more serious issue, namely the hundreds (if not thousands) of casualties of the porn industry: the large number of people who have died at an early age from drug overdoses, AIDS, victims of violence, and especially suicide, after working in the Adult Industry since circa 1970. As a reporter I covered the industry throughout the 1980s, and it was very depressing writing up obituaries on porn people in their 20s and 30s, as opposed to my coverage of mainstream entertainment, where the typical person passed away after a long career and retirement, often living at the Hollywood old folks' home. I know Sharon Mitchell has always been very active organizing support systems, especially on health matters, but I expect this documentary will simply focus on the glamorous examples (e.g., Jenna) as well as including corny sob stories to make the viewer feel "superior", rather than getting to the heart of the matter.

There are various websites devoted to exposing the dark side of the business, and I think that is far more significant topic than what I expect to be shown in such a self-serving "doc".

"Three quarters of what is said here can be completely discounted as the raving of imbeciles" - Donald Wolfit in Blood of the Vampire (1958)

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[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Studman_Productions 12 years ago

just saw a clip of it on tv tonight. looks like it will be released this summer

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[–] eagle79-1 11 years ago

Well lor, you expected wrong (and how can you call a documentary you haven't seen "self-serving"? - unless I misinterpreted your syntax). It's streaming on Netflix as I write this.

I don't see much difference between the porn business & Hollywood. They are both meat markets, it's just that one is completely in your face about its exploitation & the other has about the same stuff that happens in the milieu of porn BEHIND the cameras. This is not a moral judgement of any kind on my part, it's just the way it is. There has been many casualties in both businesses. If you were to compare numbers, meaning which business lost more heads to drugs, Aids, crime, hitchikers, drifters & starlets included, etc. between the four decades that porno as a business has been running & the century and a half that Hollywood has existed, I don't think that porn has Hollywood beat.
You covered the industry throughout the 1980s, but that was also the same era where MANY thousands of "typical persons" were dying en masse of Aids in both coasts. I take a little objection as to how the porn business is put under a huge magnifying glass & made to look like the biggest darkest vortex in the culture.

Jenna only appears in a short clip (from one of her vids) & doesn't even have an interview or voiceover, she just gets referenced by Randy West in a comical remembrance of his.
There is a healthy cross-section of experiences shared on this doc, from women with issues who shouldn't have entered the business in the first place (who rather predictably, after having overdone every vice available to the point of near demise) became born-again christians, to women like the legendary Seka (one of 70s porn pioneers from the so-called golden age of adult films) who not only has never had any issues with sex, but took this industry by the horns, got her pleasure & her money, lives happily & has no regrets.

My favorite moment is when agent/writer Bill Margold says that he tells young women who want to enter the business: "What are you going to do when, ten years from now, your kids open a magazine & find a photo of you with a candle up your a**? Are you gonna tell them you were playing the birthday cake?"

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[–] ValeriaMessalina 10 years ago

Bill Margold was my favorite person in this movie. His bits of the interview are witty, honest and engaging. The rest of the interviews are a mixed bag, possibly because of my own psychological projections but a lot of them seemed to be talking themselves up way too much (like Asia). I do believe if they were half as smart, talented etc as they claim they wouldn't have ended up in this business to begin with. Very few well adjusted people with a sense of self-worth end up *beep* on film to make money, but that's just my opinion.

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[–] BugisStreetAnnie (1295) 7 years ago

I do believe if they were half as smart, talented etc as they claim they wouldn't have ended up in this business to begin with. Very few well adjusted people with a sense of self-worth end up *beep* on film to make money, but that's just my opinion

I think that might depend, though, because back in the '80s there was a transsexual who seemed educated, with some college, and she started out as a female impersonator then went into she-male porn. She's still alive and is on Facebook but doesn't talk about her past in Hollywood.

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[–] jackIYM 11 years ago

Casualties.

There are a few of the standard 'hard luck/life got me into porn' stories here, but I look at those stories and I think of the millions, with the exact same stories who aren't in a documentary looking back right now. The ones who didn't get into porn. The ones who are still addicted, still turning tricks, still being abused. The ones who are dead. For every sanctimonious ex-porn star weeping about their fate there is a mountain of bodies beneath their feet.

It is by no means an easy life--as was put succinctly in the film, the people who made your career possible will revile you--but it is life. And, for many of them, the problems they face after porn are celebrity problems. 'Always recognized'--while that may be bad in some cases, the examples given were all good, the type of thing that happens to any film star.

Even the bearded fool going on about how they could only really be connected to others in the industry didn't seem to understand that the same thing goes for mainstream stars. Does he think Tom Cruise could ever have a 'normal' life? His only real peers now are the people who do what he does--just like porn stars.

And the end bit, that stuck in the news about alcoholism--how many people are alcoholics? Are they in movies? Or do they suffer anonymously?

Porn saved these people. In some cases it made them wealthy.

There are those who will cite porn's death toll...while ignoring the death toll of Hollywood. They'll cite drugs and sex and dehumanization. And they'll do this while ignoring people like Heath Ledger, Whitney Houston, hell, Marilyn Monroe.

And they'll do it while ignoring the fact that there are people out there who take or lose their lives every day for reasons that, when boiled down to the core, are exactly the same.

Don't weep for these people, feel for them, yes, feel for their hardships, show empathy--but weep, instead, for the society that demands what they do and then curses them for doing it.

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[–] Kroyall1962 11 years ago

I don't think it is fair to blame all of "society" for the existence of porn. Yes, there are millions of people who consume it that are part of society. There are also millions who don't view it who condemn it which is their right.

"Demanding" porn is a bit of a misnomer. Porn is out there, people are stimulated by it, so some view it. There are lots of vices out there. Some people indulge themselves even though they wish they could resist. Does that mean we should embrace the purveyors who exploit weakness in others?

Are dope dealers A-OK because some people buy dope? Not really, at least in my mind. They are dealing in death, at lest those that are pushing hard drugs. I agree Hollywood is an immoral cesspool. That doesn't excuse the porn industry in my mind, they are 2 sides of the same coin.

They are both dishonest in a sense because people in the business claim to support moral principles while they deal in cultural filth that is consumed around the world. The ridiculous celebrities who decry gun violence while they distribute ultra-violent content non-stop are a recent example.

I think we are saying the same thing really, but I think there is a distinction between popular culture and "society". What we see on TV and the Internet is a skewed reflection of society at best. I think the media entertainment complex would like to believe they actually do control the culture and they are getting close to achieving their goal. We need to resist that.

If people voluntarily left the porn industry and there was a societal shift in public opinion against it, I don't think it would be a bad thing. I don't see this as being the result of censorship or government action however. I think more of us need to speak out honestly about how Hollywood and the porn industry are harming the social fabric of the nation.

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[–] jackIYM 11 years ago

Oh, no, 'society' is to 'blame'. Pornography existed for millenia before there was a porn industry--and a huge chunk of modern porn is amateur--often 'actor' created.

'Blame' may be the wrong word--people like sex. It intrigues them.

Where 'blame' comes in is in the fact that much of society wants porn--but is quick to condemn those who provide it.

If we could stop that, porn would die.

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[–] team_gas 11 years ago

'''Blame' may be the wrong word--people like sex. It intrigues them.

Where 'blame' comes in is in the fact that much of society wants porn--but is quick to condemn those who provide it.

If we could stop that, porn would die.''

I like this quote. It's a 'bigger picture' way of thinking.

American porn, and its problems are cultural. The US has two faces, and these are represented in the bedroom and out in the public. Society says that if you watch porn, you are exploiting these girls/guys and you're not performing your duties to your wife/husband. Essentially, you're a pervert. Who wants to be associated with that? Yet, a very large part of the American public watches porn, and they are not sick and twisted or bad husbands/wives.

The way we deal with each other, and how we hide our private lives from even our best friends (as not to be judged) presents a huge problem to the porn industry, and the people involved, especially in the US.

In Japan, the industry is looked upon more honestly. People are not afraid to read a magazine in public or go in to the adult section of a video store*. Every shop that sells videos in Japan has a very large and open adult section. While Japan is a tight and rigid society in many ways, it celebrates success no matter how it is achieved (as long as it's consensual and legal). Women in Japan have long used the AV model platform to get in to the entertainment industry because once they get there, they aren't ostricized for their previous accomplishments.

This has a huge impact on the kind of people that get in to the industry in Japan. You don't have broken people going in as a majority. You have people (ok, almost all women) using it as platform for bigger and better things. And in Japan, that's accepted.

The American industry, by virtue of the cultural outlook of multi-partnered sex in the country, makes it a last stop for the young, misplaced, and desperate. You get in to the porn in the US because you're out of options. Why would anyone with anything going for them want to put themselves in an industry (though legal) that's treated criminally?

* This has to do with Japan's male-dominated society which, in turn, probably has a lot to do with why the porn industry is treated the way it is there.

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[–] Yanyawa 8 years ago

You must not be familiar with In the Realm of the Senses and how the Japanese actress was treated so badly that she had to move to Europe.

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[–] Doc80 11 years ago

I would like to point out that Asia Carrera, the woman who was revealed have an alcohol problem after the documentary was filmed, was drinking because of her life in porn. She was drinking to deal with the death of her husband which she never really dealt with.

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[–] odb85 11 years ago

This is an excellent thread.
I applaud the questioning and thinking going on here.

What I learned from business people, was what they meant by "business."
WHat they meant by "business," was, "we'll destroy your life, but it's not personal."

Without sex, you'd have no people.
Without sex films.... well....

The consequences are so varied that I hesitate to speculate.

But good work on the discussion! Keep thinking!

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[–] rlippman-2 11 years ago

As I understand it from an interview with the director, it was very hard to get a lot of people to talk about their porn/after porn careers because these people are so used to being exploited and didn't trust the film enough to get involved with it. While a very interesting film, I don't think people should look at it as any kind of representative sampling of porn actors careers and aftermaths. I also need to mention that the film is focused mainly on actors from the 70's, 80's and 90's. The film does not address the porn industry today, which is far bigger, exists on the internet and not so much on DVD or Video anymore, and a huge part of it now is escort work. That will have to be the subject of a different documentary some day.

_______

A wrench to the head changes everything.

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[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

I don't care.

Become a hoker.....become some heroine junky....become some porn slut....and end up dead?

Don't care.

They are gonners to me the moment they decide to do this.

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