MovieChat Forums > La piel que habito (2011) Discussion > Sympathy for the Rapist??? (Spoilers)

Sympathy for the Rapist??? (Spoilers)


If you've seen it.... It IS an interesting punishment - justice: twilight zone style.
but the movie sets it up that we are to sympathize with poor Vincente.
But remember Norma's life was shattered. SHATTERED because some dumb guy wanted to get his rocks off.
I have no problem with destroying the life of anyone who rapes.
This movie however.... handled it badly.
Vincente doesn't even think he raped the girl.
And instead of inflicting punishment..... the Doctor falls in love????
in love with the guy who raped your daughter and drove her to suicide? right?
and we are supposed to feel bad for Vera and hope she can be reunited with her family?
Boo.
Boo, I say.

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he didn't rape her cause he wanted to or because she said no and he just kept going. it happened cause the guy was so *beep* up on drugs that he didn't understand what he was doing. you know dminshed capacity and all that. and no that does not excuse what he did but it does explain what it. and that girl already was *beep* up before Vincente so her suicide can't be placed entirley at his door.
and no that guy did not deserve that, no one deserves that.


i told you not to stop the boat. Now lets go. Apocaylpse Now

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In "A Clockwork Orange" by Stanley Kubrick, we WERE actually meant to feel sympathy for the lead antagonist who is a rapist AND a murderer. And, apart from that experiment which he endured, after God knows how many other rapes and murders he committed, he got rather lightly off - at least compared to the character in here, of whom Banderas' character (actor who, by the way, played himself a rapist in ANOTHER Pedro Almodovar film - "Matador" (1986) 25 years prior to that), who practically was, as a result, transferred into a woman himself, and Banderas even did that to an extent to remind him also of his dead lover.

By the way, as much as I do agree that rape is horrible and the people who perpetrate this should be dealt with appropriately, in the context of this film, I was wondering - given just how CLEVER Antonio Banderas' character is and what wonders he was capable of performing with his surgery, just out of curiosity, did he ever consider to himself creating and designing medicine for rape victims, including the kind that can heal both physical and at least SOME of the emotional wounds?

And even if not, do you think that when he captured him, it would have been interesting if Vicente asked him something to the extent of - "OK, I did wrong", maybe even talk about how "he didn't mean to do it etc" and then say something like "Come on Dr, if you're a genius as such, why not create medicine that heals the wounds of rape victims and help your daughter, torturing me like that alone won't solve anything" etc.

And maybe Banderas' character would've said something like "No, there is no medicine for stuff like that. Just like there is no magic stick to permanently get rid of scum like you. What do you think this is, a *beep* fairytale you bastard? I already killed a rapist in my life once. Ain't gonna have no more mercy on your kind of sick mugs. You think you have the right to take what's not yours and cause people suffering, turn the act of pleasure into pain, like that and get off on it? Shut the *beep* up immediately or I will mess you up in so many ways you'll never dream of." Etc.

The greatest trick the Devil has ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist!

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I agree, its a brilliant film, but the ending kind of ruined it for me.


" Look, there's two women fuc*ing a polar bear "

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I have also noticed that in many reviews, people were complaining that the doctor even went as far as to "fall in love" with Vicente, the guy who apparently raped and caused the suicide of his daughter, but I think in actuality, what I believe the movie was trying to say that the doctor wasn't totally right in doing what he did either and that this type of vengeance in itself not exactly a good act, the "falling in love" part was almost like an injustice-like take on the attempted revenge for rape in Gaspar Noe's "Irreversible" (2002) - only there, it was simply the case of a wrong guy getting killed and the real perpetrator getting away, so there was no happy ending.

The fact that at the end of this film, the doctor Roberto himself was killed kinda also shows how he went a little over the top and crazy himself in exacting vengeance.

By the way, I don't mean to sound gruesome or mysoginistic myself but I was kind of wondering.

What would Roberto do if a woman actually raped, say, his son, and it caused the son either to suffer or commit suicide, would he go as far as to exact an act of torturous revenge in that case like he did with the male perpetrator here or would he have mercy and say, give her a painless death whilst thinking something along the lines of "Yeah, it is also bad the other way round, but as a man I have my dignity. Just like Leon did in that 1994 Luc Besson movie where he said no women no kids".

The greatest trick the Devil has ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist!

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Both characters were irredeemable imo, and before the doctor's death it seemed like they were stuck with each other, which would have been a far better ending. Vincente didnt deserve his redemption.

" Look, there's two women fuc*ing a polar bear "

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if the other person does NOT say yes.... it's a no.
yinz need to learn something about consent.
permission must be given, it cannot be taken.

i haven't even gotten into the transphobic issues, here.

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So every time you engage in intimacy with your wife for example, you must ask for an explicit "yes" confirmation, otherwise it's considered rape? That can't be right...

__________________
C0ntinue the joke.

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The issue the thread is raising is not whether it was rape, but whether you had sympathy for the rapist/ felt the punishment went too far/ not far enough. It begins from the premise that it clearly was rape. If you want to argue against that save it for the 'How are some arguing that Vicente didn't rape Norma' thread?

Some posters like Rumblmonkey feel that Vicente wasn't punished severely enough and did not have any sympathy for him. Other users like coolaree feel the punishment was too extreme.

It is worth noting that in the original novel the film is based on the character of the rapist is punished far more harshly than in the film and is raped hundreds of times before being killed. So, we might ask whether Vicente actually deserved to be tortured to death? Can a rapist ever be punished enough? Or is the punishment in the source novel too extreme, justifying Almodovar tuning it down?

It would also be interesting to ask whether, all rapes being equal ["rape is rape"] such punishment would be appropriate in all cases - imagine, for instance, that Vicente had been a statutory rapist, a 20-year-old man with a 16-year-old child. Would such punishment be justified?

I think it's very hard to say because rape is (perhaps rightly) seen as the crime that exceeds all other crimes. The only crime more heinous than murder. At the same time however there are many instances in fiction and in real life in which rapes are not recognised as rapes (such as in this film!) or society makes lots of excuses for the rapist.

I think Almodovar wants us as a society to ask these questions (and let's be honest here, rape is a recurring element in almost all of his films, maybe he was raped himself or a close loved one of his was victimised).

At the moment we don't have capital punishment for rape but cheer when a vigilante manages to torture and kill sex offenders. Currently a very probable sex offender is running for the highest office in the world. This cognitive dissonance can not stand.

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I see this story as one that does not have a cliched good guy or bad guy. I think both Vincente and Roberto were sympathetic but they also committed some horrible acts and by the end, they both paid for their crimes in different ways.

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