Who the hell do these Jesuits think they are, spreading their personal message (disguised as being from a deity) into a country that is never going to accept it? I'm not surprised the Japanese fought back.
Why are you here if you haven't seen the movie yet?
Yep. And it was all to do with European empire building. I was willing them to cut off the priests'heads.
shareSuch a simplistic view of highly complex things.
Anyway, Japan isn't imperialistic? What was the first thing they did when the civil war was winding down? Invade Korea. They also had plans for invading the Philippines before deciding to close the counrty instead. What did they do as soon as they opened to the world again and modernised their army and navy? More empire building.
Where did I say that Japan wasn't imperialistic?
shareYou're the one that's simple. Or mental lol.
shareYou're the one that's simple. Or mental lol.
My friend and I were both pulling for the Japanese while watching this tonight, lol.
"Call me if you ever feel to old to drive" - Me and You and Everyone We Know
"into a country that is never going to accept it"? Clearly they were accepting it, which was why it was a problem in the first place - for the lords anyway. Only the rulers were "fighting back".
You have a problem with priests going to serve people who converted freely, but don't seem to question who the hell those lords think they are to persecute and kill people?
You're right. There are two sides to this story, and I think Silence presents both admirably. Scorsese gives us the faith and dedication of the priests as his primary focus, but also allows us into the minds of the Japanese rulers who are worried by these strangers and their presence in Japan.
I found myself sympathising with both.
I've seen a few of these posts, and they are so monomaniacal that they come across to me as just baiting religious types. Most of them make sure to dig out their disbelief in religion (I've seen "fairytale" and "sky fairy" a lot).
It wasn't that the Japanese were wrong, it was the extent of which they did it that was wrong. Killing for fear of spreading Christianity is excessive.
shareYeah, nevermind the starving peasants being tortured by their masters for choosing the message they wanted to believe in.
shareThe movie never mentions how Japanese people were sold into slavery and shipped to America, Africa and India by the Portuguese. It was a main reason why Hideyoshi kicked the Portuguese and Jesuits out of Japan.
shareIf the people wouldn't accept it they didn't have much to worry about. There are 1% of Japanese who are christian today and they can practice freely.
It was when the Portuguese Jesuits had their community in Nagasaki adopt western culture that the shogun was like hell no...
Well you see the irony is that the Japanese Shoguns initially ENCOURAGED the Jesuits to come to Japan so that they could facilitate trade with the West. So for a few dozen years, they turned a blind eye to their people being 'christianised' and gave the Jesuits free reign within Japan. Eventually, as we see in Silence, the Shogun forbade the Jesuits to enter Japan and severely punished those who continued to practice Christianity. But as Silence depicts, pockets of peasants who secretly practiced Christianity still existed, and continued to do so to this very day. So what was to become of these people?????
Indeed, the author of Silence, Shusako Endo, and his family were one of these Japanese Catholics (who now form around only 1% of the population, if not less). If you read his books, one of their main themes is usually about the true meaning of Christianity....of Christ's words and example. The priests in Silence end up postulating because they do not want to totally abandon their sheep. In their hearts, they continue to belief, as do the Christian peasants. They come to accept that each culture adapts Christ's words to their own culture, and by them themselves accepting this, they are able to break away from the 'dictatorship' of the Vatican.
It's been a long time since I read the book, but by the end of Silence, it is clear that the young priest's love and believe in Jesus is stronger than ever. And in the end, Silence is an ode to that 'silent' love: the love that overcomes oppression.
I really recommend Shusako Endo's books, not only 'Silence' (which is far superior to the film imo), but also 'The Samurai' which presents us with the historical context when Japan was encouraging trade with the West via The Jesuits etc, and therefore is a prequel of some sorts to Silence, and also his novel 'Wonderful Fool', about a kind and naive foreigner, an almost Christ-like figure, who gets lost in Japan and the perils he goes through.