MovieChat Forums > Vozvrashchenie (2003) Discussion > What the fock is in the box?

What the fock is in the box?




i've seen the movie and one thing puzzled me the most:what was in that box? i know this is not the most important issue about the movie but i'm curios ,what was in that box?????

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Spoiler Alert!

What's in the box? Isn't it obvious? It's an illicit hoard of some sort. Dad was in jail for the past 12 years and went back to dig up his stolen goodies. When he was speaking on the phone during the scene before he told his boys to get on the bus, he was arranging to dispose of the hoard. I would guess gems of some sort. He came back to pick up his boys to take with him as a cover to throw off any crooks that might have been tailing him. But the boys got to him in the end.

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That's what it seems like to me. He's out of jail, but has to settle accounts with some old partners/enemies, and needs to dig up his stash right away. He still wants to connect with his family, but he knows he can't stay, he'll be off again on "business." So, he's distant.

I've experienced this - my folks live in another country, so we never know how to treat each other when I visit for two weeks. Often we end up fighting, partially because of a year's worth (and a life's worth) of built-up unspoken things, and partially because we know we'll be separated again in a few days and it's emotionally tough. There's the tension between opening up completely to make the best of the time, and closing up a bit so that it won't hurt so badly when we are inevitably separated. Some friends of mine in a similar situation were held at arm's length by their grandparents for the whole visit because the grandparents couldn't deal with it.

The father is impassive through the whole trip, even contained when angry, when striking the older son (he never strikes the younger). He fluctuates between being open and distant, testing and strengthening his sons in the seven days he's got with them. He wants to send them back on the bus, but realizes this may be the only time he'll have with them for another 12 years (as the younger put it).

It all comes to a head when the younger son pulls the knife and then runs. The father runs for the first time, showing more emotion than before, dropping his cool disaffectation. It might have been the chance to finally open up, talk his son down from the tower, to accept the emotional pain that would come with really connecting with his sons. But he dies before that opening can happen (while trying to solve the problem through force), and then disappears under the lake, just like the box.

This movie reminds me a bit of The Old Man and the Sea, where after the big ordeal and accomplishment, we're left with only a skeleton (and individuals' memories).

I'm curious not about what's in the box, but why he only took one box out of the chest he dug up (there seemed to be several other things in there).

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I agree...

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[deleted]

I'm really surprised that nobody has guessed correctly. Jimmy Hoffa was in that box. And Elvis.

Perhaps the box was a method borrowed from Alfred Hitchcock. As a certain critic has called this method, it is the "maguffin," the thing in a film that somebody or several somebodies is/are after, but nobody watching the film knows what it is and they never find out.
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http://www.opinionsoup.com/movies.html

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Actually, I think they took whatever was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase and put it in the box. :-P

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[deleted]

I have read several posts which suggested that "The Return" is a metaphor representing orphaned Russia, bewilderd, rudderless and embittered by its totalitarian past.

Another suggestion is that the film is evocative of a religious metaphor for various reasons. Both theories have been explored in this tread.

I would like to add my own.

The Island represents Hades, the two boys are Charon and the body of water which separates the island from the mainland is the River Styx.

The boys as merely transporting their father to his ultimate destination - death. It is significant to note than both to and from the island, it is the boys who navigate the boat to its final destination.

Every person who wishes to cross the river to carry the dead must pay a tribute to the ferryman, to ensure safe passage.

The box is the tribute paid to the ferrymen. It was also customary to place a coin on the dead person, on their eyes, under their tongue or on their clothing as payment for the passage. (When the boys cover their father's eyes, there is a subtle allusion to this ritual). The box is under the father's body, hidden in the small closet. When the boat sinks and ebbs to the bottom, it represents Hades reclaiming its rightful tribute - since the fare was only to the island and the dead may not leave Hades.

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It is quite remarkable that literary nobody in this message board understood the metaphor, while it is sooo obvious on the other hand. Perhaps is the scarce knowledge of Rusian recent history the cause of such flagrant misinterpretations of the movie. Father is the communist regime, sons are Russian folk, grandmother is the old pre-communist Russia, and the mother is eternally youthful “mother Russia”. The older son is a symbol of common people and the younger of intelligence. Their journey with the supposed father is metaphor for 75 years of communism. Every stage of the journey, every scene in the movie is carefully planned and represents a symbol of either some important historical event during these 8 decades, or it depicts some significant character of the regime or the attitude of the folks towards it. Starting from the family dinner, repairing the car in the backyard of the house, storm, arriving on the island, the box, and so on.

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That makes you the 249023840th person to bring that up - sorry to dent your movie-connoisseur ego.

The political and religious metaphor has been explored scores of times before - so unless you can add something new, its useless flogging a dead horse dude.

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I've browsed through the message board and except Freudian clichés about the father-son relationship, jesus-bible stuff, tons of contemplations about the box etc.. couldn't found anything that would even closely reveal so, but sooooooo obvious symbolism.

Would you please give me a link to any of the the posts that would prove that I'm wrong? I would be most grateful. If you do so, I will humbly apologize and quietly retreat from the discussion whose aim is not to concentrate on the author's intention but to juggle with imaginations inspired by the film.

This movie is not intentionally made to have thousands possible and equally correct interpretations like some other movie scripts are deliberately written. The film has a very clear metaphor. It is also not shame if someone born and raised in the west doesn't understand it at first glimpse. It would be a shame for someone like me not to get the metaphor. :)

I can really explain you scene by scene what each one symbolizes. If you are not satisfied with me, you can ask my father, or my mother, or my grandfather.. or choose among the millions of people who passed through the classes of history in a former communist state.

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[deleted]

I've corrected my mistake in the previous post. I meant to write “I will humbly apologize...” and definitely not “I will humbly ask for an apology..” Sorry for that..

Back to the subject. It is interesting phenomena that history raised to the symbolic level is unrecognizable in one culture, and almost obvious in the other. Imagine a different script. A script that would try to present American history all the way from the Mayflower till the present days in the similar symbolic mannerism. We got to have two families now, one representing the natives, the second representing the settlers. The second family moves to their new farm against the will of the former owners - the first family. You can invent some convincing reason for that, like the first family is on the edge of the bankruptcy and it has to give up part of their land to survive. And then the first family becomes greedy and wants more and more land – you've just got the symbol for clash between natives and the settlers. The War Of Independence could be portrayed as the clash between the newcomers and the bank claiming the ownership of the farm. The FIRSTborn mare on the farm of the newcomers would be named AMANDA, and the old man who is the head of the family would upon her birth enthusiastically declare that AMANDA would never be used for any sort of labor but instead she will FREELY flourish on the farm, and every American with little education would see in AMANDA the obvious allusion on the FIRST AMENDMENT that grants the right of FREE speech. The American Civil War would be some split inside the family of newcomers. And so on, and so on...

And now, if some adolescent in Novosibirsk without any knowledge of American history would watch this movie, you can imagine that even explaining him the metaphor would not bring the storyline any closer to him. He would still see two families struggling against each other, and maybe contemplate that the story is actually harsh criticism of human nature which is in constant dispute with other people or with the nature. He would see Amanda as the symbol of intractable nature and if he is particularly imaginative he would somehow cleverly connect her to the ancient Pegasus. And if you would benevolently explain him that the horse named Amanda is just an allusion to some famous paragraph of some even more famous document, he would laconically reply: “Don't give me this crap!”

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[deleted]

The film definitely sticks in memory. I watched it just once and I can recapitulate most of the scenes.

Did you notice when father died it was younger brother who actually expressed sorrow and grief while the older one who was more emotionally involved with the father quickly recuperated and accepted the situation? Also, when the boat sank, it was younger brother who cried out loudly “Papaaaaaaa” and ran into the water while the elder brother remained on the shore more or less peaceful despite his closer attachment to the late father.

It is a paraphrase of the situation in Russia after the collapse of communism. Russian intelligence coexisted with the communism in a symbiotic way. Both needed each other because of different reasons. Russian intelligence was completely surprised by the collapse. Where to go now? What to do now? During almost 8 decades of living together both the regime and intelligence anchored in comfortable positions. Communists couldn't manage the state without the intelligence, and intelligence used failures of communism to practice its natural role as a critic of the society and enjoyed praises from the west for sporadic acts of disobedience. But when the regime vanished from the historical stage the intelligence was surprised and idealess (and still is). The new situation unveiled that all those expressions of dissatisfaction (Did you notice how younger brother constantly complains to father? For example, he complains when he's hungry, and when father gives him to eat he complains about the food...) during three quarters of a century were not accompanied by the constructive ideas. Therefore, the intelligence embodied in the role of the younger brother naturally expressed sorrow for the passed times when its role as an objector made some sense. However, the elderly brother quickly accepted and adapted to new situation led by his indestructibleness as a symbol of ordinary Russian folk who will adapt and survive any situation as it already did throughout the history.

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I think it was an accumulator for the boat's engine.

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"I think it was an accumulator for the boat's engine."

LMAO :D


The void is a mirror.

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In the box, there is a condom for you to put it on. After all, safe sex is important even in islands.

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After 12 years in prison/exile/onanoilrig/huntingsaskwatchinthesiberianwilds, Pops was just dying to get to that stash of crack he left on that island inside the box that was inside that chest, buried under the ground in the ruins of an old house. He did seem a little irritable, didn't he? Well, you would be too if Mr. Jones had been beating your door down for 12 years.


Seriously, though....I enjoyed the movie, and wonder if the director/screenwriter even had a specific thing in mind with respect to the contents of the box.....it really wouldn't matter, would it? The point is that there was a box, and there are a whole bunch of posts above this one pontificating as to the contents of the box. That's one of the marks of a good movie - that it makes you think, and that what it is you're thinking about is open to interpretation and/or speculation.


I admittedly was interested to know what was in the box, and even a little disappointed when I realized I wouldn't find out. But if it had been revealed in the course of the movie, I wouldn't be sitting here right now, wouldn't have thought much more about the movie, and I'm guessing most of the people in this thread wouldn't have either. So, I think the director achieved what he wanted to - create a movie that leaves an impression, stays in the viewers minds a bit, and gives them something to discuss/argue about after the movie. Well done.

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Vozvrashcheniye is an enthralling, atmospheric, thought-provoking and beautifully filmed movie. But no film is perfect.

Many of the postings here infer (or state) that anyone who wants to be shown what was in the box is "dumb" and should stick to blockbusters. However, whilst on many occasions unanswered questions in films can be valid, they are not automatically so - and it is intellectually lazy simply to praise a mystery as artistic, regardless of whether it adds to the bigger picture.

The film is not perfect, and IMHO the manner in which the box is dealt with is a mistake - it takes away from the rest of the film, rather than adding to it. So little is known about the father that there are many different possible explanations for the box, and we have now basis whatsoever for choosing between them. We do not know, and cannot know, what is in the box - Zvyagintsev has deliberately created an unanswerable mystery. The question is whether, in this particular case, this device has a value.

We are clearly supposed to see the film through the eyes of the brothers, and the box does not further this: at no point are the brothers aware of the existence of the box. Had they become aware of the box but not known what it contained, then we could have seen (and shared) their reaction to the mystery, and this would have added a further dimension to the film. But as it was, the contents of the box were a mystery neither to the boys (who did not even know that it existed) nor to the father (who, of course, not only knew that it existed, but also what it contained). It was a mystery for the audience only, and one that it will never be able to resolve.

Some people are frustrated by questions (such as "will he/she/they ........") left hanging at the end of a film, but others enjoy pondering the possibilities. In my view, it is often valid to have unanswered questions, but the box does not fall into this category. It is a failing of the film that so many viewers who clearly loved its many rewarding aspects feel so frustrated that a mystery has been capriciously created and left unanswered.

The box was a device - and a mistaken one - in a great film. Instead of wondering what was in the box, we should have been left pondering matters such as the relationships between the characters, and the boys’ emotions. My advice to those who feel frustrated by the box is to try to rebury it !

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Man_in_Grey
Are you trying to tell the director how to film?) It was his movie, he showed what he wanted, you take it or leave it, like it or not - that's your choice. It's for you to decide what the film was about, but it was his film.
person-34
They boy wants to overpower his fear, to prove himself strong and worthy.

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"Are you trying to tell the director how to film?) It was his movie, he showed what he wanted, you take it or leave it, like it or not".

If you think that it is wrong to comment on movies, why are you a member of this forum?

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"We are clearly supposed to see the film through the eyes of the brothers, and the box does not further this: at no point are the brothers aware of the existence of the box."

Exactly. We see the film from the point of view of the brothers and brothers only. None of the other parts are explained. We never know where their father returns from and consequently, never know the real reason behind the actions that he enforces on his sons. We never know about whom does he speak to on the phone or whom does he meet at the harbor. Even when young Ivan asks his mother about where did his father return from, his mother refuses to divulge anything. And so is the case of the existence of the box and its contents. Even when his father looks inside the box, there is hardly an expression on his face that could imply about it's contents.


Apart from that, this is a beautiful movie where the plot mystifies the story with the support of good performances and brilliant cinematography.


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I'm not a hypocrite. If I criticize, I criticize the idea and not the person.

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If Im not mistaken the mother said they were going hunting(I watched it in russian, no subs). Maybe the box was a box of ammo, thats what it looked like. So he was going to take them hunting but it didnt happen, symbolyzing the soviets wanting to go forth and continue their reign but the people didnt let it happen, what with all the tension and suspicion building up.
Something to think about.
Oh and what does the boy jumping at the beggining of the film and wanting to at the end mean?

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Its really surprising to see how many people feel betrayed by the ending because it didn't show what was inside the box. For me personally, the ending was so overwhelming that I totally forgot about the box.

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I'm one of the people who were bugged all the time about the content of the box. The way it was handled took away from the movie a little for me. In pulp fiction for example, not knowing the content was not important. People could elaborate just for funsies. But it wasn't like that in this movie.

Now I don't think it was a random act on writer/director's account. It surely is there for a reason. What we see, is there for a reason, but I'm not sure if what we don't see is not there for a reason as well.

Regarding the "we are talking about it. isn't it the important thing?" or mystique lovers, I remembered the 33 on Rolling Rock beer. It was a mistake at first but people elaborated so much on it that it stuck. This is not a good thing when you are a writer. Everything you do has a purpose. Writer is not like a photographer. But like a painter. The way your creation works is by putting things in until perfection. Not pulling things out until perfection.

Anyway. Rationally I believe the box had other reasons for existing than just mystique. The movie is woven in three ways I think. The mistake IMO, is that especially at the ending 10 minutes, writer/director didn't care for one of those weaves, and dismissed the box, as the contents didn't really matter for his main weave. Which I interpret as a metaphorical story. Still it bugged me that one part of my mind was busy about the contents of the box, when it shouldn't be so.

Apart from that, I think this was an excellent movie. Especially in acting and photography departments. Similar to tarkovsky and nuri bilge ceylan.

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