MovieChat Forums > Che: Part Two (2009) Discussion > I Can't support a movie that glorifies t...

I Can't support a movie that glorifies the Cuban Revolution


My god!!!! I wish Americans would someday realize how lucky they are... In Venezuela, we used to have a nice democracy, far from perfect as all of them, but every five years we would have elections and elect a new president... that was until ten years ago, when venezuelans "hoping for a change" (sounds familiar?) elected Hugo Chavez, who not only is a convicted coupster responsible for the death of dozens, but a Cuban ally who has instaured a comunist regime not unlike castro's... what do we have now?

. the poverty rate is on an alltime high (and most of them support chavez, because "he is a man of the people"!!!!)
. Crime in Venezuela is rampant
. Cuban doctors are now all around the country...
. We are now the new parking lot for Russian War Jets
. and of course... Chavez is looking for a way perpetuate himself in Power

That's why I'm sorry, but I'll never support people like Sean Penn, Danny Glover, Tim Robbins and now, it seems, Steven Soderbergh.

Believe me, you guys live in a great society... ENJOY IT!!!!!

ERAMOS FELICES Y NO NOS DIMOS CUENTA

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Wait a second...

"Cuban doctors are now all around the country..."

--- How possibly can that be bad... well rest can be left of difference of opinion but if you think this is bad... then you got to be kidding.. doctors from cuba, you could say only positive outcome.... cause doctors save lives they are not military so no matter where they come from... you got to thank who sent them...

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What's wrong with Cuban doctors?

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tyrannical dictators being deposed by revolutionaries wanting to 'change the world', only to install new dictators is nothing new at all....

was batista bad?...seems so....but people aren't fleeing cuba (TO THIS DAY) in rafts, tires, refrigerators and waterwings because they're living the good life over there.


it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it

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Leordaz,

I just saw this movie with my anti-Castro Cuban mother a few weeks ago and we both liked it. I, too, didn't want to support a movie that glorifies the revolution and its major players so that's why I checked it out at the library (I also do the same when it comes to Michael Moore's stuff). Part two, however, to me showed how naive Che was trying to start a revolution in Bolivia.


"Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others"
--Sir Winston Churchill

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The Cuban revolution is not something that even needs to be glorified. Despite the faults of pre-revolutionary Cuba, it was worse under Batista who sold out his country to US gangster and treated his people more harshly than Castro did.

And the reason people now see El Che as a major villain these days is because capitalism leads the world's propaganda and he killed an army officer ''without trial''. What these spin-doctors don't tell you is that Cuban forces routinely cut off noses and tongues of Cubans. Of course the police tortured and killed city-dwelling young men and students were always suspect and often killed.

The US myth that the revolutionaries were worse than Batista and his regime is laughable and absurd. Infact the US hatred for modern Cuba and Castro is more based on the loss of capital for business and gangsters (Batista having allied himself with the US mafia).

In the end revolutions are not nice things and post-revolutionary countries need time to stabilize afterwards. But the revolution had to be fought, much like the Mexican revolution and the revolutions in the sad continent of South America.
"Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"

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lol. And you call yourself a Venezuelan? Don't know in what Venezuela you lived ten years ago, certainly not in the same Venezuela where real Venezuelan people and patriots lived.

And it's a great movie, about one of the greatest man of Latin America. Real Latin Americans and Real People loves Che. VIVA CHE!! VIVA FIDEL!! VIVA CHAVEZ!! VIVA THE CUBAN REVOLUTION!!!

It's easy offend Chavez when ten years ago you was one of the 20% bastards who stolen the people and worked together with the pro-USA dictatorships whose sole objective was steal, kill and rob the real Venezuelan people.

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And its easy to support Chavez when your are one of the criminals in his payroll. Or you are actually going to lie me that none of the government officials are thugs. LOL, Diosdado Cabello that guy is really a saint (sarcasm).

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Before Chavez we had a thief who never move a finger to make something to Venezuela. All they did was to please USA and help the riches while 80% of Venezuelans was under poverty line. There's no way to deny the reality, with Chavez everything is better. Who dislike Chavez is who can't steal the country and our natural resources and put all the money in their pockets while the people starve to death. There's a lot to improve and many problems to solve, but with Chavez it will be done. If that assassin and genocide Pedro Carmona was in power we would be in civil war and 90% under poverty line while the riches would be stealing natural resources and licking boots of USA.

But it's same in every countries of S. America, in Brazil many stupid people hate Lula (while entire world pleases him as best president world ever seen), in Bolivia the whites organize racist and hate groups to attack real Bolivians and try to depose Morales, in Ecuador the rightwingers are in despair because Correa is improving life of poors and bringing justice to the country... and when it's time for the nazi rightwinger opposition show they are bigger and that we're wrong, they always lose, because democratically the rightwingers never won and will never win in our South America.

QUE VIVA CHE!!!

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Really? you are actually defending a thief like Diosdado Cabello and others because the goverments before Chavez were thiefs ? LOL. You fiction is really good. A thief is a thief, no matter if you are left or right. So i guess is alright if i go to your house and kill you and your entire family because some people do it, right?. If you really care about justice and democracy you wouldn't be a Chavez's supporter. Plain and simple. Sure Chavez has done good things for the poor, but also past goverment's did (Romulo Betacourt, you know about him right? ) but that doenst mean they are above the law and have the right to steal.

And about your whole fiction of S. America. If people hate Lula, thats their right, a democracy can't exist without an opposition. But i am guessing thats what you want in Venezuela, a not democratic country.

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Did I said I defend Cabello? But that's typical of right-wingers, no arguments against Chavez, let's put Cabello or somebody else in the middle. That's typical of right-wingers, in Brazil, Ecuador, Bolivia, Peru, Nicaragua... it's same with the so-called USA parrots (right-wingers).

And if democracy means that Carmona, RCTV and all that right-wingers and USA bootlickers will come back, then you're right, I'm against democracy. But let's not waste time discussing, this will not change anything, you must concentrate your power to beat us democratically in next elections while I will concentrate my power to make Chavez be cured and win all elections till 2021 and beyond!!! But with or without Chavez, Venezuela will never come back to the dark ages of when USA and white bastards stolen our country and our people. Good luck in next elections, you and your friends won at least 1 of all elections Chavez did. Maybe you can beat us in the next?

One question: Do you still believe in the lies RCTV and CIA backed terrorists said about april 2002? Watch http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363510/
And if you don't accept the truth, then you're just one more parrot repeating what the white elite says for you say. Even USA accepts the real facts...

QUE VIVA FIDEL!!!

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Who is the parrot that repeats the exact same thing that Chavez says? What truth are you talking about? That Chavez goverment is corrupt? i am accepting that.

So you are admitting that Cabello (Chavez's right hand) is a criminal Ok , so who put Cabello in power? Wasn't Chavez? who is responsible for all the corruption that is going on right now in Venezuela? Take some responsibility dude, something that Chavez or any of his entourage havent done in 12 years.

And what about april 2002? . I still ask you, does that gives the right for Chavez and his entourage to steal? Does something that happened 11 years ago means that you have to destroy any opposition out there?

White bastards? So you are also a racist. Nice to see what kind of people support Chavez.

You remind a lot of the Nazis.

Heil Chavez!!

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I'm white but not a bastard, I want my country get better. Race doesn't matter, but the Venezuelans who stolen the country and worked for USA was all whites, but I should have said bastards only. Sorry if I offended the whites...

Compared with corruption before Chavez what happen today is nothing. And I have my doubts, maybe all is invention of rightwingers. We know that what these people do better is lie, april 2002 proves it.

By the way, where's proves about all these corruption you talk about? Talk is easy, prove is other thing. We have prove of what rigthwingers did in 2002.

And for me Chavez was good, wait till 2007 to close RCTV, make a referendum... and ppl says he's a dictator? Me in his place would explode RCTV and declare state of war, what would give me the rights to answer the violence of rightwingers with same violence. The bastards deposed a president and none of them was killed or sent to jail... if it's not democracy and freedom then I wonder what is democracy and freedom. But Chavez was kind and choose the most democratic way possible. And you got 40% in last elections.. and says we're not a democracy? You all must thanks Chavez for be alive, anybody else would have destroyed the rightwingers, because we was at his side and entire country was with him, one order and Carmona and his gang would be in hell now, trying to depose Satan (with CIA help).

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Where is all the prove of the corruption you talk about before Chavez? You are still defending today's corruption just because there was corruption before. I don't defend corruption, a thief is a thief period. Prove about corruption? Are you kidding me? Now i am wondering if you actually live in Venezuela. Your english is not that good (mine neither) so that leaves the option that you are in the government's payroll. In what minister you work for?

Have you even once talked to the police in Venezuela? ,that's just a small portion of the corruption that is going on in Venezuela. They found a briefcase with almost $800K cash in Argentina coming from PDVSA officials. The son of Diego Uzcategui (The head of PDVSA south in that time) was in the plane escorting the briefcase.

A dictator not necessary mean someone that is bad. A dictator is someone that has absolute power. Elections has nothing to do with it. Chavez control the 3 branches of the government so he has absolute power in Venezuela, please don't deny it. If you don't want to call him a dictator fine, but he does have absolute power. Even Noam Chomsky admited that Chavez has absolute power. You now are admitting that Chavez has total power over you or else you would be in the streets killing what you call "right wingers".

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Ok, I partially agree with what you say. Chavez has absolute power, but I'm not against it and I think it's the best way to make a country develop. In Brazil and USA they waste a lot of time and money discussing between them because nobody have power to govern. The Constitution is what create a democratic country, not elections. Chavez must respect the Constitution, and our one was approved by the people, different of USA and Brazilian Constitution that never had approve of people and is changed every day without consent of people that's who directly affected by Constitutional changes.

Corruption is a serious problems, many cases are lies created by oppositon, many cases need investigation, many are proved. It's a serious crime in entire world, even China that punished corrupts with death have corruption. But it's not the rightwingers who will solve this problem, they're much more corrupt than the left.

Anyway, we will waste our time discussing corruption and such things.
If in 2002, when militaries bring back Chavez, if he had made a furious speaking against the rigthwingers and CIA backed terrorists, probably that would have caused a tragedy and a bloodbath. Today I have no interest in wars or in violence against opposition because we're a solid democracy and we "kill" the rightwingers every year in the elections.

But we will never agree with each other. I just want make one last question: Who would you like to see as next opposition candidate?

And you're right, dictators are not bad. Fidel is a dictator.

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Funny that you mention the constitution because is another thing that Chavez's government doenst respect. I think that the 1999 constitution is good, but he had to change it again for his own benefit. And if you read article 6 of the constitution it has some key words : That the government will always be democratic, decentralize (Something that we both agree is not), and alternative ( something that might not happen with the changes he did in the constitution). So basically , the changes he did with the amendment violates completely with this article. I'm guessing that doesn't matter because Chavez is above the law.

So to answer your question, i like any opposition candidate (whoever wins the primary i will support him) before Chavez. I even prefer any PSUV's candidate over Chavez because i follow the constitution and i believe that there must be an alternative(just like the constitution says) in power. Simon Bolivar also said that is wrong and dangerous to have one man in power for very long time, I wonder why Chavez never mentions did, after all he is a fan of Simon Bolivar. And I think that 13 years is a lot of time for someone in power. Not even Marcos Perez Jimenez lasted that long.

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All important constitutional changes were approved by people in referendums (Chavez even lost one of them). Democratic, there's no doubt, decentralized, well, the powers support Chavez, that's a fact, but they're not totally controlled by Chavez like it's in Cuba. All powers supports Chavez and agree with him, it's not much different of UK for example, or even USA. We're far from a dictatorship like Cuba (what in my personal opinion is the ideal form of government, but that's my personal opinion and it's up to people choose to be like this, if they want to).

I see no opposition candidates capable of win and if a tragedy happens Elias Jaua will have difficults. I agree with almost everything Chavez did, some minor things I disagree, spent too much buying support of countries with cheap (or free) oil (a thing USA also does a lot). Spent a lot in somethings wasn't urgent. But there's no way to deny, 13 years ago this country was dying and now... And in all these years Chavez made a big mistake: not make his successor. My vote will always be for PSUV and for Chavez, nobody made more for Venezuela than Chavez and the PSUV and I'm happy to know that even if a tragedy happens or if Chavez lose a election, it will be impossible for Venezuela back in the dark ages of when rightwingers *beep* with this country. Even if opposition wins someday (and I hope and will work for it never happens), what Chavez built is for eternity, now people are politically educated and they will never accept a return to the dark ages. South America is changing and now USA will not be able to destroy our democracy. Very soon we will see that the coup in Honduras was a big fail, just like april 2002.

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Bolivar also said: Run from a country that a man possess all the powers, is a country of slaves. All powers follows Chavez, that doesnt mean they agree or support him. And if the opposition gets a political entity, like the Mayor of Caracas , he seize that power by creating an office above it. Or is just a coincidence that he did it when the opposition won the election and not before when the crooks Freddy Bernal and the fat, gay and thief Barreto were in charge of that office. So now Jacqueline Farias, someone that the people didnt vote is now in power, nice democracy. Obviously Farias is happy, she has a big house in el Marquez (a high class place) both of her daughters graduate from private universities (Universidad Catolica and Universidad Santa Maria) and one of them is living overseas. I am guessing her job as president of Movilnet and vice-president of the socialist party wasnt enough for the lifestyle she wants for her and his family so she needed more power and money. (not very socialist, more of a capitalist IMO).

One mistake you keep saying, the US doesnt own the oil companies, the private sector does, unlike Venezuela. Venezuela depends on US market (capitalism) to survive. Chavez has made Venezuela more dependable of US market than ever before. So basically, Venezuela's survival depends on the US capitalism system. So we are still in those dark ages you speak of. Maybe you should do a tour to the barrios of Caracas, Lidice or maybe Jose Felix Rivas, and then tell me if those people don't live in the dark ages.

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Hugo Chavez is one of the best things that ever happened to Venezuela. Hugo Chavez was elected democratically by the people because they were tired of these right winged capitalists who were sucking the lifes out of them.

When the upper class ruled Venezuela, things were really bad in Venezuela. The rich were taking all of the money while the lower class was left with nothing. Venezuela had a really high poverty rate and most people weren't even educated.

When Hugo Chavez took over, the lower class got it much better. They got more say in politics and they recieved more education and well payed jobs. But the rich had to pay for it and they totally deserved it. But of course, the rich people weren't really happy about this. I guess you are from the upper class in Venezuela. The upper class got so mad they begun showing massive right winged propaganda on their news and began planning a coup.

In 2002, right wingers committed a coup againts Hugo Chavez after wide spreed propaganda. But what did the people do? Millions of Venezuelans gathered outside of the goverment building in Caracas and demanded the return of Hugo Chavez. After only a few days, the military striped the right wingers from power and Hugo Chavez was back again.

So you see, Hugo Chavez does have a *beep* of support in Venezuela. That is why he has won every election thus far, because the people like him. He has won his elections fair and square. So why are you then saying you don't have democracy anymore? You are pathetic!

"I'm unhappy, so I buy happiness, but it isn't working" -Jacob Palmer

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Chavez is the best thing that ever happened to Venezuela, for criminals and corruption. If you are a criminal, the best place to live is in Venezuela.

Sure, some people love him (mostly criminals and ignorants). Also a millions of venezuelans gathered outside of the government building? Sure there were a lot of people there. But a million? Come on, you do understand that number don't you. If you see the footage, no more than 20 thousands (i would say less). were there and thats when his was very popular. More people showed up for the Metallica concert.

And stop this right wing nonsense. You do know that past governments ( Democratic era) were leftist?. I mean they nationalize the oil industry (wow very right wingers).

Right now is still the same like before, the rich people are getting richer and the poorer and getting poorer. Chavez's government has won billions and billions of dollars in this past 12 years. Where you think is that money? Most of it are in bank accounts and properties (in USA) of high officials like the thug Rafael Ramirez. Leftists you say? That's the small talk to keep the oppressed and poor happy when they make millions. Wealth spread in your dreams.

I say i don't have a democracy because Chavez is violating the constitution. If you had ever read the constitution then you would know. You call me pathetic, i call you a ignorant loser, live in "barrio" in Venezuela for a year then we will see.

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You are aware that it's proven that liberals tend to be smarter then conservatives right.

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You are aware that making up complete BS like that without evidence and demanding l everyone believe indicates that you're stupid AND dishonest, right?

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You are a right wing fascist dick from the ruling European elite . Cuba is an amazing society - can you imagine how much better it would be without U.S. sanctions ? Do you seriously believe N.America is such a wonderful place to live nowadays ? Have you watched too many Hollywood movies ? Well watch these 2 films & try to THINK .

That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger

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No, you're just a totalitarian communist psychopath who throws pathetic tantrums because he can't murder and enslave everyone who disagrees with him.

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Look the Cuban Revolution was a very good thing...at the time.I'm not saying that it's better than capitalism but clearly it was a change for good from Batista,who sold Cuba out to be the playground of american millionares. The gambling,whoring buisnesses in Cuba were all set up by americans,who now blame Castro and Che for it.The thing is Americans can't take the fact that a small island could rise up and escape from their grip so they sent the CIA to assasinate CHE.Who is in the wrong here???I think it's pretty clear.

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Actually if anything Guevara's death was partially because of Castro's need of being the only "hero of the revolution".

Its funny though that some people blame "capitalism" for the corruption in Batista's government and then defend Castro's regime with all its "whoring" even today, its so idiotic.

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A totalitarian dictatorship murdering, oppressing and robbing everyone is a "good" thing?

Oh, well. You're clearly an idiot and hypocrite who has no problem with Castro working for the USSR to assassinate people and destabilize Africa and Lstin America to clear the way for more totalitarian communist oppression.

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