MovieChat Forums > Che: Part Two (2009) Discussion > I Can't support a movie that glorifies t...

I Can't support a movie that glorifies the Cuban Revolution


My god!!!! I wish Americans would someday realize how lucky they are... In Venezuela, we used to have a nice democracy, far from perfect as all of them, but every five years we would have elections and elect a new president... that was until ten years ago, when venezuelans "hoping for a change" (sounds familiar?) elected Hugo Chavez, who not only is a convicted coupster responsible for the death of dozens, but a Cuban ally who has instaured a comunist regime not unlike castro's... what do we have now?

. the poverty rate is on an alltime high (and most of them support chavez, because "he is a man of the people"!!!!)
. Crime in Venezuela is rampant
. Cuban doctors are now all around the country...
. We are now the new parking lot for Russian War Jets
. and of course... Chavez is looking for a way perpetuate himself in Power

That's why I'm sorry, but I'll never support people like Sean Penn, Danny Glover, Tim Robbins and now, it seems, Steven Soderbergh.

Believe me, you guys live in a great society... ENJOY IT!!!!!

ERAMOS FELICES Y NO NOS DIMOS CUENTA

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Sos un pobre infeliz, eso de "hay doctores cubanos por toda Venezuela" como si fuera algo malo. Pff...

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Marx never said that he was going to take away everyones land. He said he was only going to bar the super rich from buying all the land with the profits earned by workers. I am not a Commie by any means but I atleast understand his work before I critique it.

Another note, anyone with a brain can see that most of the nations that are said to be communist or socialist really arent either. They are gangster states run by corrupt men. They are nothing more than state-capitalist mini-fascist nations. Most socialists oppose these regimes and have been opposing them in public for years, yet the right wingers keep insisting that these nations are good arguments against socialism when most socialist agree with them.

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>>Marx never said that he was going to take away everyones land.<<



Apparently you haven't noticed the main inherent problem with Socialism.


Nobody practices what they preach. Socialism in practice is a completely different animal from the hypocritical carrot-on-a-stick pipedream it is on paper.

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Nobody practices what they preach. Socialism in practice is a completely different animal from the hypocritical carrot-on-a-stick pipedream it is on paper.


You could say that about ALL human institutions.

Christianity as its practiced today is NOTHING like what Christ and his disciples preached. I have yet to see right-wingers condemning Christianity and the Bible.

Whenever you point out that Christians have massacred entire peoples, owned slaves and tortured Jews to death, the answer is always the same: "oh...they weren't real Christians if they did that?"

Why can't we apply that to Marxism?

And most of what people criticize anyway is not Marxist Socialism...it's Bolshevism, also known as Marxism-Leninism which is basically Marxism ADJUSTED and AMENDED by Lenin according to what he thought a Marxist movement should be.

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>>You could say that about ALL human institutions.<<


Yes you could. And who says I don't?



>>Christianity as its practiced today is NOTHING like what Christ and his disciples preached. I have yet to see right-wingers condemning Christianity and the Bible.

Whenever you point out that Christians have massacred entire peoples, owned slaves and tortured Jews to death, the answer is always the same: "oh...they weren't real Christians if they did that?"<<



I'm about as atheist as one can get, so if you're trying to make a point here it's not really working; I view Marxism in it's various guises the same way I do religion. Actually, I find Socialism and Catholicism have much in common. Not the least of which is the distrubing comfort with which each system is willing to allow millions to die and suffer asa direct result of their system, just so long as those people are dying and suffering in accordance with the rules they've written.


>>Why can't we apply that to Marxism?<<


I think a better idea would be to start judging people and institutions based on their ACTIONS, not on wishy washy ideals or carrots-on-sticks, or this ridiculous apologistic "Well it's okay if their deeds are evil, because the ideology behind it looks good on paper" nonsense.




>>And most of what people criticize anyway is not Marxist Socialism...it's Bolshevism, also known as Marxism-Leninism which is basically Marxism ADJUSTED and AMENDED by Lenin according to what he thought a Marxist movement should be. <<


Different shades of blush on the same pig. The semantics change, but the end result is identical.

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The truth is that in Latin America you are better off living under Chavez or Castro. The alternative "democracy's" are places of para military groups backed by various political factions and the CIA, corrupt police, government, civil servants, crime cartels that kill thousands a year, very few jobs, low paid hard labor jobs working for multinationals, drug and alcohol abuse, working in drug cultivation/creation, crime infested barrios, no national health care.

The list goes on and on. Ok im sure Castro and Chavez killed people and depending on your beliefs whether it was right, wrong or necessary is irrelevant in my opinion. And in parts their regimes have failed to deliver (with some help from the US that is). But I am sure its better than the alternative above.

America is a nice place to live if you have the money. You have many freedoms, such as the right to bear arms which I am a great supporter of and more access to the country side (as here every piece of land is owned by some toff or farmer) and you have far less speed cameras. You have a better political system than the UK and (for now) a more healthy, logical and traditional set of values than us. Although it looks like America is looking to Europe after the Bush years. I believe the web 2.0 revolution really changed the mindset of Americans in the last 10 years. Before high speed internet and social networking the internet was largely inaccessible and incidental.

Pushing towards the European model of ultra/neo liberalism is not the way to go. It hurts the people it should protect. Living in the UK I know first hand just how sick this nation has become. A government thats supposedly for the people is happy to give banks hundreds of billions of tax payers money, RBS is now 70% public owned but we don't see any benefits of that. Yet the government creates propaganda which demonises the working class as "benefit thieves" for getting £50 a week. It demonises anyone on welfare as a scrounger yet where are the unskilled labor jobs that Thatcher destroyed?. We have mass unemployment, allot of which is hidden by putting the unemployed on mickey mouse programs or courses. The rich tax dodgers do not receive the same hate campaign ad treatment do they?. Nor do the thousands of immigrants that have their finger in every pie around.

We live in a crime and drug ridden society. The social decline even in the last 10 years is very noticeable. Even in good areas there is a culture amongst many youths of do what you want and intimidate/hurt anyone in your way. Police are almost powerless apart from giving speeding tickets. People cannot stand up for themselves because social deviants have all the rights and may very well kill you for your retaliation. Old people cant afford to keep the houses warm in some s*** hole council estate yet MPs are falsely claiming tens of thousands of pounds to live in luxury. Taxes on fuel go up and down to whatever suits the government.

So many young men are now drawn/forced into the armed forces, its either the promise of exciting macho combat and £14k a year or a service job at a supermarket or restaurant chain. What are they fighting for? Heroin from Afghanistan/Pakistan, floods our streets more than ever. The UK is the largest market of Afghan Heroin in Europe. There are far more extremists/terrorists and funders right here at home. Our boys (and any other NATO soldier) are dying for the sake of big oil and gas.

The only growth industry in the UK is the public sector which feeds the labor party with votes as the decent salary in the public sector creates blind allegiance. Not that it would make any difference as the 2 (3 if you count lib dem) main parties are indistinguishable.

I want Americans to push for national health care, the NHS isn't perfect but its better than insurance companies controlling your fate. But don't fall for the lies of neo liberalism. Closing GITMO isn't a good thing as you can guess where these guys are gonna end up. Majority will end up in the UK receiving celebrity status and instantly creating court cases against the British and American armed forces and intelligence services. Which they will most likely win.
Its all a joke, nothing would surprise me here these days.

Very Off topic I know but oh well I think its important enough.

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"The truth is that in Latin America you are better off living under Chavez or Castro"

WTF?! You need to learn a little more about Latin American economics, politics and history. Its not all black and white.

Its very easy to speculate with other people's lives, I for once prefer to be FREE form tyrannical states.

"But I am sure its better than the alternative above."

You are wrong

"But don't fall for the lies of neo liberalism."

You already fell for the lies of socialism.


Enough, I dont have the stomach to continue rebutting this senseless socialist propaganda.

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Exactly, people never look at how the US intervenes in Latin and South American countries. The effect that the US has had on Latin America is far worse than Afghanistan, where at least there they have to keep up a mirage of civil society.

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hey stupid, do you realize that the US allows latin american illegal immigrants in the US to send back over $30 billion in untaxed readmittances to their home countries every year? This constitutes a huge share of the GDP of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Mexico. It's practically charity too, since the immigrants in question do not pay taxes in the US. Furthermore, the US also donates several billion dollars in aid to latin american countries annually as well. I'm sure the people in latin america love this type of intervention.

As for the Afghanistan, the US removed one of the most tyrannical regimes the world has ever known and is currently spending billions of dollars to build up the Afghan military and economy. Many US based age agencies, as well as the US government itself, are also spending billions to open schools and distribute aid in poor areas of Afghanistan. Due to this, the current problem the Afghans have with the US is not that they're killing civilians (because the Talbian have killed far more), but that they're not able to secure them from the Taliban.

get your facts straight.

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That's BS. People like yourself hypocritically attack Anerica over that all the damn time. The America straw man is invoked in literally every Useful Idiot response here defending the Castro regimes oppression.

What you pigs NEVER talk about is Communist imperialism, like the Sandinistas, the Argentine socialists invading the Falklands, or Castro acting as a satellite for the USSR and trying to spread their tyranny throughout Africa and Latin America.

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Except the homeless in America are better off than the middle class in either Cuba or Venezuela.

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You are stupid beyond belief.
You know nothing about US foreign policy.
You, and people like you, comprise of the weak willed individuals that give this fascist country(semi-democracy inside, fascist foreign policy) the man power to stay as rich as we are while depriving your home countries of skilled labor.Scum...
If the rest of the world decided not to send its best and brightest to a country that has an absolute hostile foreign policy towards the rest, it would be a better world.
Instead, now China and America are the two world superpowers, all I have to say to you is good luck....

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You're a brainless hypocrite, even by Socialist psychopath standards.

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Can you please cite any sources at all?
I mean ANY. I have read several books on the Cuban Revolution, Che and Fidel, and there was nothing about innocent killings of any sort.
In addition I had a largely unbiased history class abroad in Asia, learning about the revolution. There was NOTHING about "innocent killings"

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Can you cite any sources that demonstrate they DIDN'T murder innocents? After all, all evidence proves they murdered thousands in Cuba and elsewhere, and your only retort is "NUH UH cuz it didn't say so in the Marxist propaganda I read!".

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I'd like to see leordaz-2 try to argue the point using Socialist Canada or Sweden or Norway as some kind of "Obama is heading America to a path of destruction" kind of illogic.

Your issue in Venezuela is with Chavez and his government, not some kind of nebulous and vague concept such as "Socialism", which has a continuum of application. Even America isn't "not Socialist at all".

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@OP why exactly, the Cuban revolution was a great thing, it kicked out all the corrupt Americans that were using the country for their own profit. Most of latin america and Africa has been severely damaged be American interference. The amount of murderous dictators they've got into power around the world is quite simply mind-boggling.

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I really like your post! Everyone seems to think that Bautista was good guy--I am glad you set them straight!

Badger 37

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Nobody here is saying Batista was a good guy, only that the psychotic monster and his regime that followed were infinitely worse.

But if you were capable of honesty or paying attention, you wouldn't be a communist to begin with.

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So, it kicked out imaginary Boogeymen and replaced it with the very real genocide, oppression, theft, exploitation, slavery and forced poverty of socialism/communism. Moron.

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Except Canafa, Sweden and Norway are neither socialist nor the Utopias you're desperately trying to convert nice yourself.

The REAL issue revolves around your refusal to acknowledge the inherent totalitarianism of socialist dogma, likely because, like most shamelessly defending it here, you have NO IDEA WHAT IT EVEN MEANS.

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I agree completely. It is sad to see how many people glorify a butcher and a tyrant who would butcher anyone who wouldn't agree with him.

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Thanks Leordaz!

Capitalism may not be perfect but it's self-correcting as someone else pointed out whereas Communists see themselves as the end-all in human affairs and silence anyone who dares to question them. Castro loves to blow his own horn and safe everything in Cuba is pie-in-the-sky. If that's true, why then have thousands upon thousands of people risked their lives fleeing from his country?

What we have here is a failure to give a *beep*

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Chavez is a good person! I am not that person, if I am in his place, I would kick out all the rich *beep* that continues to throw out murderous propangda against on National televsion!!!

All the *beep* that hates on socialism like this are rich *beep* who reaps off the people and are more like Americans than Venezuelans!!!

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Chavez was a monster, and the only people who ever supported him are totalitarian psychopaths who entertain fantasies of robbing and murdering everyone who won't think like them.

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