MovieChat Forums > Che: Part Two (2009) Discussion > I Can't support a movie that glorifies t...

I Can't support a movie that glorifies the Cuban Revolution


My god!!!! I wish Americans would someday realize how lucky they are... In Venezuela, we used to have a nice democracy, far from perfect as all of them, but every five years we would have elections and elect a new president... that was until ten years ago, when venezuelans "hoping for a change" (sounds familiar?) elected Hugo Chavez, who not only is a convicted coupster responsible for the death of dozens, but a Cuban ally who has instaured a comunist regime not unlike castro's... what do we have now?

. the poverty rate is on an alltime high (and most of them support chavez, because "he is a man of the people"!!!!)
. Crime in Venezuela is rampant
. Cuban doctors are now all around the country...
. We are now the new parking lot for Russian War Jets
. and of course... Chavez is looking for a way perpetuate himself in Power

That's why I'm sorry, but I'll never support people like Sean Penn, Danny Glover, Tim Robbins and now, it seems, Steven Soderbergh.

Believe me, you guys live in a great society... ENJOY IT!!!!!

ERAMOS FELICES Y NO NOS DIMOS CUENTA

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All governments ARE corrupt, that's is why we have the word government corruption. It just goes together like cookies and milk! Like bacon and eggs! Like farm animals and midgets! Oh, maybe not that last one..ewww.

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Dear leordaz-2, some of the claims you base your rant on are grossly inaccurate.

According to World Bank data, poverty rate in Venezuela has actually decreased significantly during Chavez years: from 48.6% in 2002 to 30.2 in 2007. That's a 19% drop. GDP and GDP per capita are at an all-time high, not low: they increased respectively from 40 trillions VEB in 1997 to more than 50 trillions in 2006, and from 1.80 millions to around 1.90 millions (with a significant dip around 2001-2003).

Regards.

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America is a dream country. Why? because it's all a lie...i am no communist nor conservative but communist society is the more realistic society. again why? because people are not made to beleive that life is going to be money and food but that they will face harsh times during their lifetime. it hurts me to think that the people like the OP suffer but get over it and appreciate the fact that ur in reality and not after some American Dream.

I believe I can fly. I believe i can drop and die.

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I cannot stand it any longer and I have to get into these ridiculous conversations. You guys don't know what you are talking about, no exceptions: you are all full of s**t with your pronouncements ex cathedra and your misinformations. Have you ever been in a war? Have any of you ever taken arms against an oppressor? Have you ever fought for an ideal? I mean fought in desperation with weapons that do kill, not some "letters to the editor," if that much, to your local papers, or like here in some anonymous forum. Have any of you put his or her life on the line for any cause? The obvious answer is "NO" on all counts. You are just philosophizing with a full stomach, in the relative comfort of your relatively free countries (I would guess, mostly from the United States of America) that has numbed you with their circuses.

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tintin-23

I believe I can fly. I believe i can drop and die.

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[deleted]

Blah, blah, blah...get over it.

It's a movie and it's been made and people will see it.

Who gives a *beep* who opposes it?

"Do you really think it's cool to hit the sauce with a bun in the oven?"

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robobeatnik...it's official...i love you

I believe I can fly. I believe i can drop and die.

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Totalitarian moron.

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Hardly any Aidan!

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In other words, you're just another hypocritical Communist totalitarian who uses the "war is hell" fallacy to forgive the mass genocide and oppression of your beloved Conmunist dogma while simultaneously whining about America.

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In other words, you have no idea what "realistic" means.

If there was ANYTHING about Conmunism's totalitarian dogma that worked, then it wouldn't turn into a genocidal dictatorship literally everywhere its implemented.

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No society is perfect, Communism works in theory though not in practice, democracy is a political ideal that many have fought long and hard for, but alas will never be achieved, properly. Socialism is a word that is bandied about freely and often dismissed for fear of reprisal because it is too dangerous to share the wealth among others less fortunate, I am a socialist and am not afraid to admit to it, Che, like Lenin before him was a socialist and dreamed of a socialist utopia where the theory of communism could be implemented with the practicality of socialism, he was not perfect, noone is but his ideals will live long after we are dead and will forever be with us, and for that i am thankful!

"They don't advertise for killers in the newspaper"

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I'm thinking of starting a coup to overthrow the internet, who want's to join? You must be prepared to spend upto 8 hours a day online, sometimes without tea or coffee and a good chance that you may develop RSI, I can not assure you victory or safety, but I can assure you that you will all die as men.

Vive la revolution!

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Hey Leordaz! So what you don´t support ? Thousands in Latin America do support the mere idea ( in fact I´ve been waiting for this movie since The Motorcycle Diaries- 2004 when it was first announced ) of some great movie o Che´s life.
We, and I include you in this, must stop that colonized way of thinking that life is the USA is a paradise and in our country a hell. They have their problems and we have ours. They are dealing with theirs we should learn to deal with ours.

If Chavez is not a good president, be a part of the solution, influence people around you to vote him out next time. I see that nearly half the population don´t like so you are close to get him out. Now complaining that you can´t support a movie and vomiting all your society´s problem without even reasoning about the movie or what correlation it has to Che´s life is simply silly.

Che has become a mith, a powerful mith that on and off the right wings are trying to paint as a monster. The nice is that they won´t get to stain his image a bit, because most of his drive was intented to achieve the best a society can get, the best that mankind can get in a materialistic way ( what in part I believe is the central mistake in socialist/comunist society). him like Fidel, Lamarca and Marighella in Brazil they carried inside the embryo of what was believe the New Man...what was lost in the material society we live in. This spirit is dead...and i believe will never be reborn till the end of society as we know it.

I do support the movie and am looking forward to watching it.

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Define 'Irony' : a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane, to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash

a really good quote from Con Air by Steve Buscemi that I was reminded of by this thread

my turn...........


Define 'Irony' : a bunch of idiots freely expressing hate for the very governmental system that allows them to freely disagree, while admiring a governmental system that doesnt allow dissent

well I gotta admit; Buscemi's line wins out (as would his delivery) but mine still makes me laugh as I read these posts.

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Yes, except Con Air sucks.

A Clockwork Orange is the greatest film ever.

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"They have terrorized and murdered the poor, defended the extreme rich and big corporations, defended torturing and murdering billions of animals in laboratories and factory farms and hunting."

lets see...

well at first i just laughed and then I actually kinda felt sorry for u.

terrorized and murdered the poor? hahah, you arent one of those people that think reagan introduced crack and aids to try to get rid of poor people are you? cuz thats where it sounds like your goin with that.

Im nowhere near extremely rich: nowhere even near rich for that matter and reagan lowered my taxes. how would you explain that?

i guess youd be surprised to know that most people are actually for animal research in order to save humans, just cuz you arent you dont need to call the reagan a murderer for that reason.

and finally....... read the constitution (something to do with guns and some kind of amendment). Oh, thats right i forgot; people like you like to ignore that messy constitution if it gets in the way of your own ideals. But when the constitution suits suits you (like the 1st and 4th amendments), you just cant get enough of it.


Define Irony.................

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Until Andy Garcia made The Lost City, not one film has depicted the mass killings of the Castro regime, let alone Hollywood darling Che Guevara coldly executing unarmed prisoners. Do you think we'll see Che's mass executions at La Cabana dramatized by a major studio anytime soon?

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Mass executions of rapists, murderers, and traitors? What's the problem?

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>>Mass executions of rapists, murderers, and traitors? What's the problem?<<


Yeha, it's easier to justify the murder of innocents by coming up with false labels, accusations and in & out groups to wash the blood away, huh?
What about the pregnant woman he had executed? Was she a rapist too?


People like you are disgusting hypocrites.

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yeah they should all be executed, arsonists, paedophiles, drug dealers and addicts etc.

"They don't advertise for killers in the newspaper"

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First, I refuse to read the rest of the posts in this thread because I am sure they are filled with garbage.

Now, let me tell you a little story. My parents are Cuban. They left in the 60's because of the revolution. My great-grandfather was a restaurant owner, he was not wealthy, but he survived and was able to take care of his loved ones. One day, out of the blue, soldiers of the revolution came and seized his property. He couldn't say anything, he had to shut up and take it or die, they would've shot him. He and his family fled Cuba and came to the states. The revolution, the same revolution that Che supported, stole the rights and livelihood of many. The right to freedom of speech, the right to live free without resistance. Che murdered many. Whether you want to believe it or not.

There is a difference between wanting to help others and helping others on the expense of innocent people (e.g. my great-grandfather). Many people don't see it, but Venezuela is suffering, as well as Cuba. Do you think people cross the waters between Florida and Cuba, risking their loves, for nothing? It takes a relatively good reason to put your life on the line. Many in Venezuela feel that Chavez has done a great job. Right, just say that to those who worked in the media. Those who had their jobs taken away because the government took over. Those who lost their freedom of speech. Those who will be (and are) put in jail for talking crap about Chavez.

ALL OF YOU AMERICANS TALK CRAP ABOUT THE U.S., BUT YOU WOULD NEVER MOVE OVER THERE (i.e. Cuba or Venezuela). YOU ENJOY YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH TOO MUCH TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. RELOCATE OVER THERE AND LETS SEE IF YOU'RE WISE ENOUGH TO SPEW ANYTHING AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT. YOU'RE GONNA WISH YOU WERE BACK HERE. MANY OF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES, WHO ARE GOING TO RESPOND TO MY POST FROM YOUR COMFORTABLE DESKS, IN YOUR NICE APARTMENTS OVERLOOKING THE NYC SKYLINE OR THE BEAUTIFUL BEACHES OF THE WEST COAST. WHY DON'T YOU GO TO ANY OF THOSE COUNTRIES GOVERNED BY DICTATORS AND SAY ALL THE $ HIT YOU SAY THERE? YOU WON'T BECAUSE YOU'RE ENJOYING THE FRUITS OF THIS CAPITALISTIC MARKET THAT YOU SO OPENLY HATE TOO MUCH TO ACTUALLY LEAVE!

Socialism and communism looks great on paper, but it doesn't work!

I still can't believe that many people support his ideology. Many of you may criticize what I have said, but my family is living proof. Say whatever you want, but just know that you believe in the ideologies of a murderer.

By the way, I would rather live under a bridge with my liberty and freedom of speech, than in a dictatorship where my rights as a human being are stripped away. At least, I know that I would be able to come out from under the bridge a free man, speaking whatever is on my mind.

Some of you people are pathetic.

On a side note, although it's irrelevant, I am a democrat and voted for OBAMA.... lol

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preach it^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

couldnt have said it better myself

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>>Do you think people cross the waters between Florida and Cuba, risking their loves, for nothing?<<




For all the lies, double standards and excuses they come up with, this is the one argument they cannot counter.

It's always refreshing, in these threads, when these young, ignorant campus revolutionaries (funny how socialists always come from the upper classes, or upper middle class at worst, no?) start spreading their negationism and revisionist history, for an actual Cuban refugee to set the facts straight.

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[deleted]

Wow, you are an idiot.

It's not about not being able to be middle class. It's about having everything you own taken from you. You wouldn't like it if someone came and took over your business, a livelihood that you worked so hard to build. THAT'S NOT RIGHT! That's stealing, AND YOU KNOW IT! THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO CALL IT. ANY FOOL CAN SEE THAT!

I WAS BORN IN AMERICA, I AM AN AMERICAN. MY PARENTS ARE THE ONES THAT CAME TO THIS COUNTRY! And yes, I do agree with you. They should've stayed in the country and fought, but I CAN'T CHANGE THAT!!!!!!

"Survive a trip in a leaky boat?" No, they were makeshift rafts, horribly crafted. Thousands of people have died risking their lives. Those people are the POOR people that Fidel has "HELPED." YEAH, Fidel has done a great job! They were not even rich!

Obviously, you have been to the nice parts of Cuba. The parts Fidel wants tourists to see. Go see the real Cuba! The Cuba stricken by poverty. The Cuba with the potholes in the streets. The Cuba where people have to wait in line for a ration of food. The Cuba where money is scare. It's all there, just look harder.

You know, I can respect anyone with an opinion. And if you believe in socialism and communism, that's fine... I don't care. BUT, HOW CAN ANYONE SUPPORT A GOVERNMENT THAT STRIPS PEOPLE OF THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS, THEIR FREEDOM OF SPEECH?!?!?!?!? NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND CAN JUSTIFY THAT! NOT EVEN YOU. YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT, BUT YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT. IT'S THE SAME FREE SPEECH YOU EXERCISED BY RESPONDING TO MY POST. IT JUST BOGGLES MY MIND HOW ANYONE CAN CHOOSE A DICTATORSHIP OVER FREEDOM. THEN AGAIN, YOU'RE PROBABLY ONE OF THOSE HYPOCRITES THAT I MENTIONED IN MY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD!

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Sorry ItsLaffyBitch, you are an ignoramus first class, and has never seen the films. The truth of the matter is that the films in no way glorifies Che Guevara or communism. I just finish watching the full 2-episodes film, and I can honestly tell you that if there are faults or shortcomings with the film, it is certainly not in being a propaganda film for Marxist-Leninism and for Che's cause. The film is about two very important periods in the life of a very dedicated revolutionary, who, like it or not, has influenced the history of the Americas.

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If you would've read my posts, then you would've seen that I never mentioned the film. I was just talking about Che in general. I am sorry, but you are the idiot.

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Sorry, tintin, but you're a lying Useful Idiot. This movie is dedicated to shamelessly rewriting history in order to misrepresent ache and the totalitarian regime he murdered thousands of innocents for as benign, and intentionally omits the oppression, mass murder, racism and imperialism it is known for in order to portray its mass murdering figurehead as a twisted messiah.

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Hi, First of all, I'm not against the Marxists or capitalists, but I believe we have been used as tools by leaders such as Hugo Chavez, Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Fidel Castro, Hiro Hito, F.D.Roosevelt, Che Guevara himself, etc. We(men, women, human factor) we are nothing more but cattle for Revolutions, Counter-revolutions, x.

Perhaps is because the economy is not perfect, or is just because we have a very limited amount of resources for our daily living; and the human being is increasing in an logarithmic function. The poor, rich, fortunate and less fortunate have to live in a better way, FREE OF POLITICS, FREE OF FANATICISM, RESPECT EACH OTHER IDEAS, FREE OF RULERS.

I agree with an user, that post "the government is a organization to help and protect" not to rule. Also The Best Economy is the one that has "Best Careful Parenting", I know that at night is fun but we have to controlled it. (Is like you want to adopt a puppy and then throw it away later because got fleas, or doesn't want to eat)

I Agree with Itslaffybitch that Communism is nothing more than TAKERS, take the restaurant, and give it to its supporter. That's how a communism succeeds, Capitalism is nothing more than "Patented Ideas", that later turn into cash, and market it all over. And that Americans, Mostly Left Wing tendency, takes a huge advantage of the First Amendment, BUT ARE AFRAID TO LIVE IN A REGIME. GIVE UP YOUR U.S. CITIZENSHIP and EXCHANGED IT for those who lives in the oppression.

The US Embargo was set up because of The Nuclear warheads transported by Russian submarines. Around the 1990's Robert Macnamara asked Fidel if he considered of using those warheads if the US Invaded the Island, and Fidel Said YES, even Knowing that the island will be completely ERASED FROM THE MAP. "PATRIA O MUERTE", and so will Be The U.S. (FANATISM IS NOTHING MORE OF A CASE of DESPERATION).

Many Scientist that participated in the Atomic Bomb, (Known as The Manhattan Project)Including Albert Einstein, regrets the recommendation of using the Atomic Bomb, and gave up science for biology. (The U.S. Used Two Nuclear Bombs because they were tired that Thousands of Child Born in America died, after the aftermath of the battle of Iwo Jima)(A case of Desperation).

Remember That JFK was Assassinated by Fanaticism, Left wing or right wing. Most probable is because Lee Oswald Harvey, a former Marine with Marksman rating, was campaigning for something as "leave Cuba alone", and Fidel Castro said by radio "Who ever tries to kill me first, I will Kill Him FIRST". Jackie Kennedy yelled "THEY KILL HIM" while holding JFK, and Lyndon Johnson was saying to himself "They kill him first before JFK got him" referring to Fidel Castro. Later, JFK's son travels to Cuba to ask Fidel some question but didn't divulge the interview to the public, later he dies in a "Plane accident"

About Che Guevara, he is nothing more but a judge, jury and executioner. (Please realize that Victory has Been Written by The Victorious, "A La Victoria Siempre", to be remembered as a hero and not murder). I wonder, when will the voice of the victims can be heard.

And About Chavez's Election, he was elected in 1998, Look at what happened to the economy during his period; more kidnappings, murder, theft, assault robbery, why is that? because of the worst economy ever, even Venezuela is an OIL RICH NATION, Please compare the 1960 economy with the year of period that he has taken charge.

Also if you are not Chavez sympathizer, or kiss bud, then I guarantee you that you will be poor. The Electoral system was, has, and is Completely changed. There are 5 internal electoral counselors or head(in which 3 is part or member of his own party, or sympathizer). On the election of December 2nd of 2007, the only FREE national media was reporting that 2 out of ten machines is having Failure Across the country (printing a bulletin of the Chavez's New Constitution is the recent winner, and the bulletin is dated couple weeks ago) That report help to frustrate his infinite mandate of electing himself as President. Again, now we are forced to vote again for NO, in order to have peace for a future Venezuela FREE OF RUSSIA, CHINA, EU, and U.S., We ARE NOT TOOLS OF ANY GOVERNMENT. (this time we have to figure out what kind of cheats Chavez will be using),

Also, The CIA DIDN'T BACK THE COUPE. that is what Chavez says and the international media (Associated Press, Reuters, all internet international press says). But the truth is that he mounted a coup himself to figure out which Officers and Battalion were and are against him after he Fired the Venezuelan oil workers for no reason what so ever, and those workers working in the oil platform were fired and not hired back for signing and voting against him (Where is the Freedom of Speech, Where is the First Amendment that the Americans enjoy so much).

I will spent this small amount of money and my Most Valuable time to write my opinion of the Revolution, and counter-revolution. Like an user posted, WE NEED EVOLUTION, and the Most precious ELEMENT "Hu".

Also, DEMOCRACY IS THE WORST FORM OF GOVERNMENT, BUT IT IS THE BEST OF ALL WHO HAVE BEEN TRIED. Sir Winston Churchill (Only for Those Done BY THE U.N.)

If you Feel Boring and Frustrated reading my long testament, how do you Feel when listening to Chavez and Fidel Castro Speech.

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>>So, only a subhuman MORON comes and preaches to the rest of us that just because of YOUR easy, do-nothing lifestyle that YOU think that YOU are the world's expert on politics and that we should all believe and vote as YOU say,
as if you have the nerve to think that YOU know what is best for us and the rest of the world. <<


Which is precisely what you're doing.

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LOL. I don't even care whether the poster you quoted was a capitalist, communist, or perhaps a Wiccan.

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Yes, you've made your idiocy and hypocrisy quite abundant.

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Then don't buy a ticket. Freak.


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This is not to support or criticize Castro, Che and the Cuban Revolution. Cuba would be very different today if Che was in charge instead of Castro. Having said that, despite all the problems in Cuba, there is good. Their health care is great and they send doctors all over the world. There is universal health care and they have completed a remarkable amount of public health programs that are light years ahead of those in the USA, for example.

Of course, there is political oppression and that is a problem. I dont want to justify everything done in the name of the revolution, but its not as black and white as most people tend to see. Also, please dont glammarize pre-Castro Cuba. Before Castro, it was simply a US playground. The mafia owned everything and it was run by a dictator.

Also, those who talk about how great the USA is and that you hope that we are in Venezuela soon should really examine US foreign policy. Again, that is not to say Chavez is a saint, but hes not as terrible as he is portrayed by our press. US foreign policy is incredibly harmful to Latin America and we need to understand that Chavez is a response to our foreign policy. This is an incredibly complex issue and most people that comment have no idea about the reality of Life in Latin America (on both sides of the argument)

In short, say what you want about Che, but at least he was a man. He had a very strict moral code and a strong sense of social justice. He wanted Latin America to be truly independent and he would be disappointed to see its current state. Those who praise our current policy should go to the Amazon or the Andes and see the negative effects of our foreign policy. This is especially true in areas where large multi-nacional corporations extract their natural resources, pay very little for them, dispossess innocent people and then leave all the area unlivable due to pollution.

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CHE's LAST WORDS to his children in a farewell letter =

"Above all, always be capable of feeling most deeply any injustice committed against anyone in the world. That is the most beautiful quality in a revolutionary."


Hasta la Victoria Siempre ! <3

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[deleted]



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At least Cuba has far far far better hospitals than the ones in the US. And all the healthcare is free and the medicine costs pennies.

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Just So you Know, Have you done a surgery, or when are you sick do you go to Cuba??? what's the quality like? Do they pay the doctors or forced them to work? If the government pay them, What are their salaries? What happened to those who suffers from AIDS, Cancer, and others Chronic disease?

And yes I have been In a NY Hospital, Is the worst form of hospital ever, paid 785 bucks for a lousy treatment, "The EMERGENCY ROOM" left me sitting for four straight hours before I could see a Doctor.

I Know and I admit I should have look for a "Family Doctor" that doesn't require an appointment, and paid less than 785 bucks (Idiot, that's why I've been a victim of an American Fraud", but I've learned my lesson)

BUT IT IS NOT THE DOCTORS FAULT, IS THE HOSPITAL POLICIES AND GOVERNMENT FAULT (HEALTH INSURANCE STUFF). Also Remember that The U.S. Is A High Wage Nation, Be prepared to "Loose money in a blow, and gain it gradually"

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[deleted]

Yes it is. GDP rose in 2008 despite reports of a crumbling economy. The economy is bad, but nothing like 1982. We have a high minimum wage, the most colleges and universities anywhere, and plenty of oppurtunity. Why do you think the USA has the most ethnic groups? Why do they have 11 million illegal immigrants? People love this country for what it is. A country where if you work hard and take care of yourself, you can get somewhere. You may not be getting a high wage making fries at McDonald's, but that is your problem. The rest of us worked hard and got rewarded. Now I won't be commenting again, because I know liberals never see the logic in anything a conservative says, it's just all wrong and I'm stupid for saying it, but think about this. Obama thinks stealing from the hard working rich and giving it to the lazy poor, who keep having kids, is a good idea. Sure, tax the rich. See how many more people get laid off because the rich can't afford to keep on employee below them. Wait and see...

"Now I got to go catch me my other Girlfriends."

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[deleted]

Yes I know there are a lot of rich people who don't work at all. But there are many small business owners who have turned their small business into large businesses. Amway, Pfizer, Any fast food restaurant. They all started at the bottom and due to hard work, became the billion dollar industries they are today (Pfizer and Amway are Michigan based companies in case you didn't know). Use Michigan as an example. It can be argued the Michigan is one of if not the key cause for this crisis. Jennifer Granholm has given Michigan the highest tax rate in the country. She has raised taxes on the auto companies immensly, Michigan has the most failing schools, over 10% unemployement. Many corporations like Comerica, Pfizer, and there was even talk of the Big 3, have left this state due to the high taxes. Know, I'm not saying give tax breaks, although they did work for 7 and a half years under the Bush administration. Would've worked for eight had the Democratic controlled congress not pushed the banking companies for those ridiculos loans. There are some republicans just as guilty (I am not a republican, just a conservative), but look at the senators and representatives who recieved money from Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack. At the top is all democrats. Now, back to tax hikes on the rich. If you "spread the wealth around," the economy will get worse. The rich are greedy, you're right, and they never want to lose money, so if their taxes go up, they lay people off. They want to keep making money, and need to lay people off to stay where they were. Watch and see. On the stimulus package, well, I'll just say you don't stimulate the economy by having the government control everything. Congress delayed Digital TV transformation to June to throw another 650 million dollars of BS in the bill. They threw that money for more convertor box vouchers. They wouldn't need to do that had they let it switch over in a week as scheduled. Now, the TV channels need to pay twice as much till June. They need to keep paying on the Analog stations because they have too, but they still need to pay on the Digital antennas, in fear of losing the antenna. That is an example of how liberals work. You, sir, are a liberal so I know you won't even read this, but I wish you would stop drinking ObamaMania kool-aid. I am done posting. Goodbye.

"Now I got to go catch me my other Girlfriends."

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[deleted]

facts are not your strong point, are they. The US has the fourth highest GDP per capita in the world.

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