Maybe this is a stupid question but:how can he be white while hia parents are black ? It is not very clear in the movie . Maybe somenone who has read the book can answer this . Is somenone of his granparents white ? Is the movie a true story ?
shareScanning this string of posts, I feel the need to summarize the comments of many prior posters in order to keep this "answer" current as this film circulates through cable, DVD etc.
Coleman is NOT white. He is a very light skinned black man. Please keep in mind that 99% of African-Americans have some light skinned ancestors. Ancestry = genes = traits such as skin color.
Most black people have encountered or are acquainted with at least one other black person who is several shades lighter than his / her parents. If the parents are “paper bag brown”, then several shades lighter equals “white”. White folks have encountered these light-skinned blacks as well, but they often don’t know that the light-skinned person that they are seeing is black because they don’t see that person’s family.
Even if you aren’t black, you’ve probably seen two dark brown skinned parents with a tan skinned child, right? This is the same “phenomenon” as two light tan skinned parents having a “white” child.
I won’t go into genetics, but let’s take height as an analogy: height is, to some extent, genetically determined, but don’t we all know a short person with two tall parents? Regarding most traits, genetics is not a one parent plus one parent issue.
As for this story being unrealistic, it is NOT. My 70 year-old grandparents knew many people who “passed” as white in order to access opportunities unavailable to them as blacks; or, simply because, like Coleman, they desired the individuality and ease of a “white” life. I recommend reading the book on which this movie is based in order to gain a better understanding of why Coleman chose to pass.
***The book also goes into a bit of detail as to Coleman’s fear that one or more of his children would come out brown even though his wife was white and he was light-skinned. And believe me, this does happen.***
Although at first I questioned the motives and veracity of a white writer appropriating this subject matter, after seeing the film AND reading the book AND hearing / reading other people’s reactions to both, I very much appreciate Mr. Roth’s courage, vision and artistry. This film and book cast light on an area of black life about which many white people are purposely or circumstantially uninformed. In order to get us past our squeamishness about race and class, Mr. Roth had to cloak blackness and poverty in a fluffy white shroud.
this was a really interesting thread to read people, thanks. It's so interesting the way we perceive eachother, and also the way we rationalise it. It seems like such a pety way to judge people, the colour of their skin, but as it seems, it's always going to happen.
I loved that quote coleman's mother said: "you're as white as snow, but you think like a slave" or something similar, and the symbolism when he was fighting the black boxer. Good movie, i reckon i'l read the book.
You're only young once, but you can be stupid your entire life
I'm half Thai half American. My American side is white, for more clarification. I look more Chinese-ish mix than Thai mix. I often get mistaken for Hispanic though people figure I'm one or the two. When I wear sunglasses, people think I'm white. My brother, looks more white. He resembles Harry Potter honestly, light eyes, brown wavy hair, lighter complexion.
I had a girlfriend who is black, but she's very light and has green eyes. Her more physical features seemed more black; kinkier light brown hair, nose, and lips. Her father is very dark black. Her mother, her aunts, her grandmother, and pretty much all through her mother's side are very similar to her. In fact, seeming some of them at a wedding, I had a difficult time telling they were black because they were elderly. At best, one could say, there's something other than white in the genes, just not sure what.
I think that once the genes are introduced, they could pop up and surprise you at any moment. One friend was very dark black, both parents very cliche dark black features. She was born with eyes like Milla Jovavich. Yes, this girl was stunning mix of features. No one knew where that came from until a great-Aunt commented that she looked like "old great grandmother so and so".
Good for the genepool. This is purely unscientific but I've noticed that you could have two unattractive people of different backgrounds, but put them together and their kid's going to be very attractive.
I saw the movie a long time ago, and haven't read the book, but didn't Coleman say his parents were jewish? That does not equal being black, I guess...At least in the movie. But Hopkins and the actor who was chosen for the part of young Silk are definately white. So it's either a bad casting or Coleman Silk had no black, no albino blood in reality and they just selected the perfect actors visually...
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His character said he was Jewish because of the neighborhood school he went to (the neighbor had Blacks and Jews). I'm Creole, I am mocha latte color but people on both sides of my family have family members, including my brother who are light skin enough to pass for white. My parents are Black, my grandparents are Black and Great grandparents. Now futher there is some White Irish, Cherokee and Comanche. We have red hair, green eyes and small noses and lips. Alot of people assume I'm biracial and are surprised we they see family portraits of my obviously black parents. You have to understand the mixing of free Blacks, Black slaves and White slave masters caused a lot of shades. Many light skinned Blacks married other light skinned Black to preserve the "whiteness" of the line or some genes dominated. Even if Wentworth Miller marries a White woman, there's no guarantee their offspring will be as light as him. You can't escape those genes. I look at my family and see that. Many upperclass Creole had quadroon balls to arrange their daughters with White men as secret wives and secret mistresses in exchange for lighter skinned offspring and financial perks. This occured a lot in many Creole families. In Black major nations like Haiti, Belize and Brazil, the light skinned Blacks and Hispanics had the power, while darker skinned ones were not high in the social chain- this has been the rift among Blacks and Hispanics to this day. Coleman Silk was NOT white. His mother had a light skinned mother (read the book). Go to Louisiana and Texas, especially in Frenchtown and you'll see us- in every shade from albaster to ebony. We have corse hair and hair that White people envy (I've been told). Read "Our Kind of People: Inside America's Upper Black Class" by Lawrence Otis Graham. Fiction: "Feast of All Saints" by Anne Rice. The book is much better than the movie. The movie "Courage to Love" about Henriette Delille, the first Creole American/African American woman to start an African American order of nuns called Sisters of the Holy Family. The movies take liberties with fact (as most docudramas do), but it gives accurate insight of African Americans, free and enslaved, in 19th Century America. She's in the queue to be a Saint, but those who are lobbying for her sainthood on her behalf have to contribute three miracles to her.
His character said he was Jewish because of the neighborhood school he went to (the neighbor had Blacks and Jews). I'm Creole, I am mocha latte color but people on both sides of my family have family members, including my brother who are light skin enough to pass for white. My parents are Black, my grandparents are Black and Great grandparents. Now futher there is some White Irish, Cherokee and Comanche. We have red hair, green eyes and small noses and lips. Alot of people assume I'm biracial and are surprised we they see family portraits of my obviously black parents. You have to understand the mixing of free Blacks, Black slaves and White slave masters caused a lot of shades. Many light skinned Blacks married other light skinned Black to preserve the "whiteness" of the line or some genes dominated. Even if Wentworth Miller marries a White woman, there's no guarantee their offspring will be as light as him. You can't escape those genes. I look at my family and see that. Many upperclass Creole had quadroon balls to arrange their daughters with White men as secret wives and secret mistresses in exchange for lighter skinned offspring and financial perks. This occured a lot in many Creole families. In Black major nations like Haiti, Belize and Brazil, the light skinned Blacks and Hispanics had the power, while darker skinned ones were not high in the social chain- this has been the rift among Blacks and Hispanics to this day. Coleman Silk was NOT white. His mother had a light skinned mother (read the book). Go to Louisiana and Texas, especially in Frenchtown and you'll see us- in every shade from albaster to ebony. We have corse hair and hair that White people envy (I've been told). Read "Our Kind of People: Inside America's Upper Black Class" by Lawrence Otis Graham. Fiction: "Feast of All Saints" by Anne Rice. The book is much better than the movie.
shareGah...you guys have it all wrong.
Coleman Silk is fair-skinned mulatto. His family went through centuries of racial mixing. His heritage is African, Finn, Swedish, English, etc. In fact in the book it states his maternal grandmother was white-looking, as was the entire "Black" community she and her family settled in (Gouldtown). They were all descendents of Slave-White, mixed-White unions.
Despite all the racial mixing his family still considered itself African-American and they still had to deal with the prejudice and descrimination of the time.
In my lifetime I have known 1-2 people with some African blood but could pass for White or Middle Eastern.
They only like you when you're 17, when you're 21 you're no fun
How is it that some of you have totally SKIPPED genetics/study of DNA/GENERAL BIOLOGY....???????????
Google 'recessive traits.'
I thought biology was a required subject in most schools?!
It's possible b/c both my parents are dark hispanics and I came out brown skined while my brother came out really really dark and my sister (the oldest) is extremely white. (And we're all 4rm the same parents!!)
Your ancestry can have a part of it too. If u have white (or Black) ancestry it can come out on u, regardless of ure parents colors...
"Everything is more beautiful because were doomed"
Dinah Shore and her husband, both white, had a black daughter. Dinah Shore sued her mother because she wasnt told that there was black blood in their family history. I was a kid then and im mid 40s now. So yes it can happen that way.
shareActually, there isn't a gene for black or white. There've been studies done that show that dna between a black and white person is more similar than dna between a white and white person or black and black person.
furthermore, I've heard of people passing off their race if their skin was different enough. Plus, if the mother had an affair, he wouldn't have been fully white, there would've been a trace of black, a mix of the two.
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You are right, there is no SINGLE gene determining black/white characteristics, it is rather a set of genes.
It might be true, that the average number of gene locations varying from individual to individual is higher than between the races, but those differences are varying more systematically. Meaning members of the same race share certain gene sets, somehow encoding racial characteristics (as skin color, texture, hair, lips nose, even susceptibility to diseases like obesity or cancer). At the same time random individuals differ in random genetic locations.
As for the "recessive genes": The concept is generally correct, but since race is determined by a plethora of genes, which do not all work in a recessive/dominant fashion, predictions for kids of given individuals are hard to make. Even mere skin color itself is determined through different genes of which some are dominant/recessive while others work additive.
For the story of the book/movie I think this stuff is of minor interest. I think the background is plausible enough to carry the story and the messages.
Especially the casting might not be 100% ideal, but come on: it's hard to find good actors which fill the characters (especially the physical characteristics) of this book perfectly.
I believe most of the studies in this area do not reflect the true number of affairs that actually occur. I am willing to bet that most will not admit to having an affair nor would anyone claim to have had an affair if they did not. So the number of affairs are higher than studies indicate. Given that an affair could occur as short as fifteen minutes.
This is the best discussion I've seen on IMDB.
I grew up in a 100% white community, went to a mostly white college, and didn't know anyone but white people until I was 30. I'm saying that, admitting my ignorance; because it's just what it was. But fortunately, in my late 20s, I moved to Washington DC and was there for 12 years. I had friends of all races and ethnicities. My boyfriend of 4 years was black. His 10 aunts and uncles (all with the same parents) ran the gamut from dark brown (like my boyfriend) to light-skinned. Until that time, I was ignorant of how common this is. I subsequently learned a lot. In Washington DC you see the fullest range, from dark coffee brown to skin lighter than one of my brother's. (example: Dinah Shore who had a black grandmother: http://www.radioarchives.org/pictures/Dinah%20Shore3.jpg)
My background is 50% Irish/50% English (but in doing genealogical research I've found if you go back to the 1400-1500s, in my family there were Spanish, Italian, Russian ancestors--so what does "English" or "Irish" mean?). One of my brothers is extremely fair with freckles and a pinkish hue to his skin, blondish/white hair, and light blue eyes (can't be in the sun for more than 10 minutes without burning), another brother and I are fair, but not freckled, with medium blue eyes--that brother has light brown hair and I'm medium blond, and another brother has slightly more tawny skin, hazel eyes, and brown hair. It's funny that no one ever questioned the differences in our skin tones. It's just a given that we're all white. And no one would incorrectly assume we had different parents--they'd just figure those are natural differences between siblings. Black families are very open about differences in skin tones and features among family members, exactly in the way white families would ("John tans really easily and he's got granddaddy's brown eyes--Tommy's got that really really blond thing going on").
My boyfriend and I talked a lot about race, exploring a lot of the topics we're talking about here on this board. Sometimes when we'd be out in DC he'd point out someone who was black who I wouldn't have known. It's not that it "mattered," per se, but got rid of a lot of my preconceptions. I just didn't *know* (i.e., I was ignorant, uninformed, unknowledgeable).
And as to skin-tone-related racism...sadly it still exists
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/skintonestudy925
However unlikely you may think this is, it is possible. I have a friend who has a twin sister that is a dark black and he is as white as snow. He takes after his mother's brother. It does happen. Have you ever heard of plantation owners?
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