MovieChat Forums > Ever After (1998) Discussion > Class/Status: Let's clear this up.

Class/Status: Let's clear this up.


So many are calling Auguste a "wealthy peasant" or a "poor merchant" or what have you. Let's just get this out of the way.

He was a member of the landed gentry. He was wealthy, as illustrated by the large number of attendants, finery, and servants when he was alive, and owned his own land. Landowners were not "peasants". They were, in a way, the middle class. Commoners, yes, but even Sir Thomas More was a "commoner, until Henry VIII conveyed on him a title. Peasants, on the other hand, do not retain servants. The only reason Danielle became a peasant is because the manor became the property of Rodmilla, and since Danielle was not the landowner, and also became an indentured servant, she was a peasant.

Auguste was likely a merchant, since he had been out of town on business and told Danielle he would have to be gone to "Avignon for a fortnight".

Someone mentioned earlier Kate Middleton, for example, is a peasant. No. She's a commoner. Even in "Pride and Prejudice", Elizabeth tells Darcy's aunt, "I am a gentleman's daughter." They're poor, sure, but ar e not peasants because their father is a landowner, a member of the gentry, hence "gentleman".

Okay. There we go.

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so Peasents are poor, commoners are wealthy?



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A commoner can be rich or poor. The Duchess of Cambridge is a commoner (by birth) because her family lacks the lineage of the aristocratic blue bloods. Also she isn't exactly a princess of the blood so their is a whole lot of other protocol she must follow when William is not present in terms of who she must walk behind/bow to. This changes based on William being present or not especially when in the presence of blood princesses like the Princess Royal or Queen Elizabeth's cousin Princess Alexandra etc.

Anyways that was a bit OT. Back on point

In France for example during the Ancien Regime, the commoners where those who did not belong to the first (Church) and second (nobility) estates. Nowadays the term just means those who are not apart of the elite and also those who may have wealth but are not exactly 'old money' etc.

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A commoner can be rich or poor. The Duchess of Cambridge is a commoner (by birth) because her family lacks the lineage of the aristocratic blue bloods.

Let me remind you that Lady Diana Spencer was a commoner before her marriage to the Prince of Wales.

So, in the UK, you can be the "lineage of the aristocratic blue bloods" and even have a title (even a royal title) and still be a commoner. As the daughter of an Earl, she was a commoner.

Because it's either sovereign, peer or commoner. And the peerage is very limited. You can be a royal and still be a commoner. Lady Diana Spencer was a commoner.

did you know that until Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II created her grandson Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, and Baron Carrickfergus, that he too was a commoner? What may be even lesser known is that The Queen herself, as young Princess Elizabeth, heir presumptive to the throne was herself a commoner when she married Lt Philip Mountbatten, former Prince of Greece and Denmark; and that he was not a commoner?

In the British system there are three legal standings people can hold. These positions are: The Sovereign, peers and commoners. Therefore technically and legally speaking if you are a Prince or Princess of the United Kingdom and you do not hold a peerage title, and you are not the Sovereign, you are in fact a commoner.
http://royalcentral.co.uk/blogs/insight/is-it-possible-for-a-royal-to-be-a-commoner-13637


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Excellent post!

I think people have been using the terms peasant and commoner interchangeably.

Most of the characters in Pride and Prejudice are the landed gentry. The Bennets, Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bingly, etc. are all landed gentry. The only (living) member of the nobility in Pride and Prejudice is Lady Catherine. Even her daughter doesn't have a title because her father was a commoner. The same applies to Darcy and his sister. Their mother was a member of the nobility but their father a member of the gentry.

Lizzie

To love another person is to see the face of God! - Les Miserables

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What about Danielle's mother? Wasn't she like a "comtesss" or something? Did that make her of equal or higher status than Danielle's father?

Also, if her mother's title worked as a cover at court, why was she not considered noble blood?

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Her mother was a commoner. Danielle used "Comtesse" to elude the Prince.

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Danielle's mother was a commoner. This is explained by Rodmilla. "Of all the insidious jokes, turning your mother into a Countess. Why it's almost as absurd as a prince who spends his days with a peasant who sleeps with pigs."

Also, if Danielle's mother had been a noblewoman, marrying a commoner would make her children commoners. Titles pass through the male line, not the female line.

Lizzie

To love another person is to see the face of God! - Les Miserables

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Thanks for explaining that.
I don't claim to know much about French law for that era, but would Rodmilla actually inherit the land? For much of history women were not allowed to own property in their own right; instead it passed to the late father's/husband's closest male relative.

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I think that depends on the land and estate if it's specific to only male heirs. Queen Elizabeth I is an early exception, even earlier than this time period I think.

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I'm no to sure about the specifics of the era. Titles would pass to the closest male relatives, but land and wealth might not - those might be disposed of according to the will. Normally the eldest son might inherit, or perhaps the eldest daughter if there were no surviving sons.

It was very much against tradition for the widow to claim everything while her husband had a child living, so Cinderella could consider herself disinherited as well as abused, no matter what the will said.

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