MovieChat Forums > Red Corner (1997) Discussion > This movie is a lie

This movie is a lie

posted 20 years ago by franc-kaiser
127 replies | jump to latest

I am currently sitting in China and writing this post. In my opinion, this movie is trying to prove a threat to the American people, which does not really (at least not in the shown form) exist anymore. For sure, there were different times in China, but it changed so much in the recent years. Although I've arrived in China not before 2002, I just cannot accept the idea transmitted by this movie.

Richard Gere, being a marketing tool for Tibetian monks (which strategically organize their campaigns from Switzerland), is the forerunner of Hollywood's funding puppets. And this movie is a political action, disguised as an agent provocateur, but not reveiling its true motives. So, even if China government is cruel and deceitful, then Gere is trying to beat it with its own weapons. It is just not fair to the viewer to transmit a political message without showing its real sponsors.

Except that, it is, ironically enough, a good-paced movie, which leaves a great effect and impression on its even well-educated audience. But, as said, it uses a horror picture / clichee of a nation to achieve it.

Would be happy to learn more about other opinions...

[–] silicondoc 18 years ago

Methinks you protesteth too much frank kaiser.

[–] impropriety 18 years ago

How about them mobile death vans?

China is a threat.

[–] snowingyang 18 years ago

"China is a threat"? Sinophobia!
I have alwayls been wondering what is your real attitude when you westerners say something like that, scared or ourtraged? When you constantly argue that our government defies human rights, all ideology issues besides, logically speaking,how could that serve as evidence that our nation is a threat? In my opinion, threat causes sense of fear, so I would ask you whether you feel afraid right now with our prosperous economy and increasing international influence. If you do, in a weird way, I feel proud of my own country because you are intimated by our strengh. If you do not, how come all of a sudden we become a threat that scares nobody at all? There is a clear line between humanitarian and meddler! What happens within our nation which I believe I know better than you do since I live here 20 years, is not international in essence and could not be cited as evidence that we are a threat.

[–] impropriety 18 years ago

Face flat it, snowingyang. Haha, I made a funny. Your country is nothing without trading partners. China's cheap labor and abusive Government auction off it's populace like worthless cattle to Western interests. Without consumerism in America, your state would still be in the middle-ages. Lest we forget the Sino-Soviet split and what Mao ended up doing - failing miserably at collectivising agriculture and starving his own people. But I don't know why I bothered typing it out for you, your government has probably brainwashed you.

[–] snowingyang 17 years ago

Hi, sartr.All arguments aside,for one thing, I know both Chinese and English while I believe you could not understand one single Chinese word! If I want to understand more about USA I can simply read by myself, however, unfortunately you cannot read any original material related to China! Who is more likely to be brainwashed? You be the judge. Also, you view about my nation's economy is really laughable. Oh, by the way, I major in Economics. I just want to say that I hate Richard Gere who is a liar and I hate this movie that is a lie. I make my own decision and utter my own opinion, and I feel obliged to tell you that it is impossible to brainwash anyone who was born after 1980 in China nowadays, so don't you worry about that! Ironically, I think that you are the one who has been brainwashed by your nation's mainstream views about China and I believe that is probably why you are so arrogant.

[–] gamertrav 18 years ago

You people do realize this is a MOVIE right? Last time i checked movies are never completely accurate (even when they claim to be).

[–] doctorjamesm 18 years ago

serioulsy stop acting like a little group of irrogant children. IT IS A MOVIE

[–] mondialo 18 years ago

Everyone who has contributed to this thread should be commended for their care and concern about injustice or cruelty towards humanity. But I have to add, politics are extremely complex and it is useless for so many people on this thread (about a MOVIE) to get all worked up. Are you starving? Are you oppressed because you can't practice your faith? If someone you know is, see what you can do to help them! I am not SURE, but I haven't heard of any religions on earth that promote insult, sarcasm, or violence toward other people, so have respect when responding to another person's views. Not everyone learns everything at the same time or from the same source, but we all desire truth. I sense a great deal of potential for people doing things to HELP (winning an argument on this thread ultimately helps noone, but starting a simple email friendship with someone from anther country and discussing your views respectfully can have great positive effects). This thread has been going for two years- I hope its been a good two years for those of you who started this thread :) . May God Bless the whole world and all of you.

[–] goodoldroger 17 years ago

people watch what they want to watch. it is just like in Chinese Kung fu movies, the westerners are always defeated by Chinese Kung Fu Masters, except Jet Li in Lethal Weapon, which displeases a lot of Chinese audiences. i think it is almost same in the West, people love hear/watch about China is related to something political, Russia is related to nuclear weapon sellers, blah blah blah... hey, dont you know that the world is changing?

[–] Gottagrin 17 years ago

I agree with single part of your claim that it is impossible to beat the system with your own bare hand, and even it is, it could only be your own sucess, the big brother don't want heroes since himself must be the only one.

Otherwise, I believe this movie is still too generous to reflect the realities here. I don't understand why there were that much aroud IMdb declaring this file being too harsh or anti-sinism, perhaps they were paid to do that, just like what happening right here. But I really appreciate for the efforts of the crew trying to be accurate about china, really good job.

I think this film deserves better ratings since from a sole film perspective, still its not bad.
_________________________
Superbus Via Inscientiae.

[–] asinyne 17 years ago

china is a horrible nation that will be forever haunted by literally millions and millions of innocent people slaughtered by this or that head honcho for the day......presently its ruled by a facist dictatorship and most of its citizens are little more than slaves.....its true that capitalism has brought the nation out of the middle ages but there is still unbeliveably bad stuff going on there

[–] drmccormick-1 17 years ago

Wow, it took me a good hour to read all that debating. I must say, I feel compelled to travel to China, and see the place for myself, then make my own judgements. Until then, I remain without an opinion. I have been influenced by many years of American perception on the status of China. I want to see the other side, and then compare the two perceptions.

About the movie, it is FICTION, and it does a good job of telling a story. The actors are also to be commended. Think of it like an extended Law and Order, with a dynamic group of characters. That's what it felt like to me anyways.

[–] Gottagrin 17 years ago

You know, back in the 1930s some western writers visited the USSR and believed it was the heaven on earth - right in the time that Stalin's great purge was in the making.

Sometimes seeing is NOT believing.

_________________________
Superbus Via Inscientiae.

[–] vincent-liu 17 years ago

this is a movie! like KINGKONG, like STARWARS,not a documentray!!!
And also I want to say: no one is more qualified than chinese or a tibetan or a Taiwannese to talk about the complex situation of China.

the other thing I want to say is:

American, please stop judging other countries, what is human rights? To give a war in Iraq(which is a totally sovereignt country)without discussing with the rest of world?please tell me. And before you ask about what tibetan really want, please ask citizen of Iraq what do they want, peace or American troops?

Or, maybe it is good to ask Lincoln's enemy what did they want. I am afraid there will be no answers from them, because they all killed in your Civil war,the costs of their wish of independence.

I am a Chinese, who grown up in Mainland, I DONOT like Coms, but please stop talking about my country if you never been here. some of you are so subjective! Who give you the rights to make judgement about a country which u never been or u never did research on it? I never dare to throw a judgement about what the USA is, even she is a young country.

[–] s2nur 17 years ago

"I never dare to throw a judgement about what the USA is, even she is a young country".

Your whole beginning of your post does exactly what you say you would never do!! Judge the USA..

It's a movie, get over yourselves, that includes everyone.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chenkevi 17 years ago

My friend whose Taiwanese (I'm ABC American Born Chinese who loves history, politics) noted two things about the movie that I thought fascinating.

One, she pointed out that the translations to Richard Gere were often misleading...even the subtitles in the movie were misleading. I paid closer attention since I could moderately understand Chinese as well and found her assertion to be correct. Imagine being some white guy not knowing why you're thrown into some foreign criminal system...and even the information that you can interpret/understand is wrong! Richard Gere really had no understanding of what was going on in the movie.......it was all just one mess that he was trying to survive. She also noted that there have been reports of Taiwanese businessmen going to China, and having committed some crime or being framed due to the corrupt politics........and even though he could speak Chinese he would undergo that chaotic criminal system and end up being killed or having disappeared...even befor e he really knew what was going on.

Second, she pointed out that even the movie badmouths China, Taiwan isn't too different either.....that justice system is probabaly present in much of Asian culture. She said that those Chinese words on the prison wall.......which pretty much stated harsher punishment to those who don't confess......applies in Taiwan. Pretty much the system is guilty until proven innocent. Those who don't confess their guilt are just trying stir up trouble, and really are just creating greater trouble for themselves. She said that Taiwan does not have a jury, and that most people that are accused of a crime plead guilty. I also read that this is similar (guilty before innocent) in Japan in an Economist article not too long ago.

I think the movie is trying to point out something in those societies.......but I just want to say that it's may not necessarily be trying to bash it....just to show that it exists. And its not just a problem that occurs in China...but in Taiwan and Japan as well.....so doesn't necessarily just blame the communist style of government in China. Democracy is still shaky in Taiwan as well...and Japan, well they're trying to portray themselves as victims of WW2 and when a Japanese teacher protested that, she was sent to be "re-educated" (Google it!). Talk about democracy!

And before Americans comment about anything.......I think Americans should realize that they do see things from an American-centric lens. Americans tend to take things for granted - they assume human rights - such as the right to a fair trial - are fundamental rights everyone should have RIGHT NOW. I'm not saying that they aren't fundamental rights, but just that those rights have to be fought over....won over.......I mean it wasn't too long ago (what, 30-35 years) that minorities started to have truly fair trials?

America is ahead of everybody in terms of basic rights and freedom.....but Americans should realize that those rights were hard=fought to win over, and should be hard fought to be maintained. Also, I think America got really lucky in winning those basic rights...it happened fairly quick and relatively bloodless ( compared to other countries ) - people in other countries have to fight for their rights to....but unfortunately it is hard to say when they will get them.

oh and by the way.....if I need credibility I have been to both China and Taiwan....I have family on both sides...my parents are wai sheng ren from Taiwan. I'm trying to be as least biased as possible....China has its problems, Taiwan has its problems, and America sure has its problems. Pointing out another country's problems is always a sensitive issue. But China does have problems with its political system......and I love my rights as an American and am just glad that I was lucky enough not to be born a Chinese citizen. If the Chinese ben di ren don't want those rights, that's their problem. If they do I'm sure they will receive a lot of support from the US. But not admitting to there problems in China.......that's just pride.......pride is what got China screwed in the past 200 years anyway.....them being too cocky to Westernize before it was too late (maybe it woudln't have worked anyway but at least they could've tried).

What's funny is by not trying to be biased..I end up kinda bashing everybody =) well at least its a somewhat equal bashing right? I'm Chinese Taiwanese American.....I'm really just bashing my own peoples...my own lands....and its all cuz I care for all 3 countries. Wo ai wo de zu guo.......God bless all 3 lands.....hopefully God can cure those three countries of all its problems.

[–] vic_pascoe 17 years ago

this movie was made in 1997 china was probably a lot different then and who is to say it was based in the 1997 it could of bee based earlier. I for one love this movie. i have been watching it since i was 12 and i am 19 now and i loved then and i still love it now.

[–] yangsta 17 years ago

Hmmm, china invaded Tibet = bad.
USA invaded say....Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan, Iraq, Panamas and more but = good.
Well, the irony in that amazes me to an unbelievable extent. How can one not be hypocritical if they brandish another as bad but have done more evil than those they attack?
Actually i have a solution, China return Tibet to the Tibetans and Americans should give back their land to the Native Americans, hows that? No? coz you've had it for like 200 years? China had Tibet for over 600 years, you Americans surely can count right?

I'm sorry if i generalized Americans, it's just based on my views of the Americans that i have met.

[–] gaw-2 17 years ago

Yangsta, we did NOT invade Korea. North Korea invaded South Korea and we shoved them back to the border -- a mistake, the first of several wars including Vietnam and Gulf I, where the idea was to merely kick the aggressor back within his borders and we fought without total occupation in mind unlike what we did with Japan and Germany.

As for the rosy views fatuous people have of dictatorships, I spent a chunk of my grad school in the Soviet Union and, as we weren't led about by the nose within restricted boundaries by Inturist, etc., came back with a very different view of Moscow and Leningrad than tourists I knew were there in the same era.

And Cyberian, I suspect from her apologia of PRC atrocities, must be "Mousey-Dong's" granddaughter. Mao was the single biggest mass murderer in the 20th century, followed by Stalin and Hitler, and likely the biggest in all history.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i320/BipolarBear1/thanksgiving.jpg
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i320/BipolarBear1/?action=view&current=boru1.flv

[–] yangsta 16 years ago

and how's iraq now? living under pax americana? there is prob more dead iraqis than under saddam now

[–] fairybird 16 years ago

"North Korea invaded South Korea and we shoved them back to the border"

How ignorant you are. Learn the history of Korea first.