MovieChat Forums > Batman & Robin (1997) Discussion > Ivy’s true personality

Ivy’s true personality


When Ivy acts out as her Pamela persona with the glasses and frumpy dress and activist personality, is this appearance supposed to be her true nature, or is her Poison Ivy persona with the sexy costumes and confident seductress personality supposed to be her true nature? If Ivy is her true persona, then why does she even need to make herself look ugly and act irrational when proposing her plan to save the planet? Conversely if Pamela is her true persona, why/how is she a “sex expert” when it seems like she is quite prudish and inexperienced in sexual matters before her transformation into Poison Ivy?

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“Sex expert”????

You’re quoting yourself. She controlled them with primitive pheromones. That’s about as expert as a dog’s ass.

She was not allowed to be actually sexy, which is why they got a gay filmmaker who was instead focused on batnipples.

Backlash after Returns, bigtime.

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Thinking back to that film, I liked Pamela better than Poison Ivy. Mainly because I thought Pamela was really funny. I guess Poison Ivy was the other side of her - similar to Stanley Ipkiss and The Mask.

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Yeah, it would have been interesting to have her appear in more scenes as her Pamela identity. Like imagine the interesting dynamic of her seducing Robin in her Poison Ivy persona and going out with Bruce in her Pamela persona with none of them knowing that they are having relationships with the same people.

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Yeah - I took a look yesterday and Pamela is funny....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbb7HjVHTMU

Yeah, I agree with you. Pamela could have been explored more in some fashion.

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Yes, I love her performance as Pamela. She is so talented in her performance in the role that you forget that she is the same woman who also plays Poison Ivy.

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When Ivy was not in character it was all in act. The Dr. Pamela thing was a poor disguise and rouse to try and get her proposal to Bruce.

When that didn't work she started using her pheromone stuff, Bane and manipulating Freeze.

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It would have been to her advantage to maintain her looks as Poison Ivy but with her drive for saving the earth as Pamela. She would probably get more people to support her cause if she were more appealing to the public and not acting like an ugly psycho activist.

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There were two versions of her before and after her transformation... (keep in mind, they're based on this film, not Poison Ivy in the comics)

Before: Pamela Eisley appeared to be a shy, nerdy woman who loved plants, was dedicated to saving the earth, was not very charismatic, and apparently did have some sense of right and wrong...to a degree. She was angry that her boss had stolen her venom samples and had used them for illegal and nefarious purposes, and also kept her in the dark about it. She was planning on turning him into the authorities before he attempted to kill her.

After: Her dark side came out and she used her newfound powers to get revenge on Wayne Enterprises for polluting the planet and screwing her over with an unscrupulous boss. This became the "true Ivy" you speak of. When she was wearing the wig, the glasses, and behaving like a nerd, she was basically play-acting and pretending to be her old self, the powerless nerd that nobody would pay attention to or listen. She knew she wasn't going to convince Bruce to do something about the earth, but she wanted to pretend to "give him a chance" anyway, just to get a feel for her enemy.

I have a feeling the darker part of Ivy had always existed, but she had been unable to give into her urge to get revenge on humanity because she had been shy and powerless in the past. I mean, you saw how people treated her when she was Pamela; she got no respect, nobody listened to her, nobody took her seriously, and people took advantage of her. Once she had the ability to fight back with her plants, her poisoned lips, and her thug, Bane, she became the sadistic misanthrope that had always lurked inside.

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That’s a good analysis! I wonder though how Ivy suddenly gains a bunch of sexual knowledge after her transformation given all the sexual puns she uses later in the film and her attempts to be seductive since as Pamela before her transformation, she seems to be quite prudish and probably is a virgin since she likely would have been fully devoted to her studies up to that point given that she has her PhD at the age of 26 (Uma’s age when the film was made).

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I think Pamela always knew the sexy stuff (probably from studying other women, tv, and magazines), but remember that before her transformation, she was very shy, probably had no self-esteem whatsoever, no confidence in herself, and was too terrified to make use of her body to appeal to men. Once she became Ivy, all that fear and self-doubt went out the window.

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Would her transformation have caused her to develop her body to become more sexy or was she always sexy but hidden under her frumpy clothes and glasses?

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I'd go with the latter. It happens sometimes with shy women. Some are unaware that they have a nice body, but cover it up with a ton of unattractive clothes. I saw it happen once on "What Not To Wear." One of their clients had a nice bod, just bad fashion sense.

However, it should be noted that Ivy's body was transformed into having toxic chemicals all over, plant-like qualities, and probably enhanced strength and reflexes, as well as immunity to poison.

See, the original Poison Ivy had a very different journey to becoming a supervillain. She was always beautiful, sexy, seductive, brilliant in chemistry, evil, and hated humanity while loving plants. She just didn't make herself a costume and reveal herself as the new villain on the block until she came to Gotham and started wreaking havoc. Turns out that she could only kill people with poisoned kisses if she wore a special lipstick of her own making. She always made sure she got inoculations to the various poisons she made, so she could do her work without killing herself. I heard that in a very late Batman comic edition, she finally achieved turning herself into a human/plant hybrid with green skin.

It's fascinating to read, if you're interested in learning about the different Batman characters.

It was actually a very odd choice that Schumaucher made to have Ivy start out as a shy nerd and later turn into a sexy villainess.

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Yeah. I wonder if Schumacher is making a statement about sexual awakenings with the Ivy transformation.

The comics and other stories where she becomes part plant or produces plant offspring are fascinating since they explore the more interesting biological aspects of her character.

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