There is really something wrong with the American audience! For real...
They go out like hurds to see BAD action flicks but when a pretty OK one comes around it flops! What's going on?
The Long Kiss Goodnight is a DECENT action flick that keeps you entertained!
It should have grossed 80 million at least!
Anybody?
I agree, it was a pretty awesome movie. Of course, I didn't see it until I was feeling a little adventurous at Blockbuster one day. I don't konw why more people wouldn't go see this movie. It was pretty awesome.
Terri
Check me out @ tdcellardoor.blogspot.com
1. Can they pack just a few more cliches in there just to see if they can break the current record they hold for most shameless cliches in a movie?
2. Nothing, absolutely nothing about this movie is original. The premise is a complete rip-off of 'Bourne Identity' (the 1980 Robert Ludlum novel) with some half-hearted attempts to make it seem new, which I suspect are rip-offs of other things I can't think of right now.
3. The acting was horrible. Even the man Samuel L. Jackson didn't come through, though he did make this movie tolerable to watch the whole way through. Geena Davis, however, made me cringe everytime she turned into 'Charlie'.
4. I see a huge .357 Magnum on the cover of a video, I set certain expectations as regards to the action. Needless to say, this movie didn't come close. It seemed like every action scene was filmed by someone who didn't know what they were doing and trying to make their movie like 'Die Hard'. I did like that part where the guy falls from the helicopter in flames. But it hardly made up for the other atrocities I had to sit through one hundred minutes before that.
5. This movie is absolutely ridiculous! An unsuspecting, unarmed woman taking on a shotgun loaded with incidiary rounds wielded by a professional killer? Chasing down speeding cars on ice skates? A car escaping an explosion projected to kill four thousand people by driving away from GROUND ZERO in under a minute? Driven by a guy who's been bleeding out for at least fifteen minutes from a rifle round to the chest? And what does it take to kill people these days? Every main character should be dead at least three times over by the end of the movie. I know it's an action movie, but come on, there's a limit to how far I'm willing to go.
6. The only way to make an over-the-top, overacting bad guy worse is to have multiple over-the-top, overacting bad guys and this movie has at least, what, three or four?
7. There's no reason to care for these characters. Who cares if anyone lives or dies at the end? Of course, we know the good guys will live. Oh, come on, you knew it.
8. This movie is the kind of movie I like to watch on TV. Something that has a lot of explosions and I can flip back and forth to if I want.
9. Dialogue sucked.
10. People were busy watching Pulp Fiction, Forrest Gump, Dumb and Dumber, Se7en, and a host of other great movies that were coming out on video. And I'm sure something was worth watching in theaters. I don't even remember this one coming out. I've only seen it in video stores.
And that's just ten reasons.
it's just a movie, you need to separate fiction from reality
shareThanks, I'll try to keep that in mind.
share[deleted]
It's a very eye-opening experience, posting things here on IMDb and reading others' posts. I've always considered myself to be a rather objective person. Able to see both sides of the argument, understand where people were coming from. But now I'm accepting the fact that this is not true. I have absolutely no idea what people are talking about sometimes as I read their comments about movies. My best guess would be to say they are working with completely different criteria.
For instance, I have no point of reference for someone who would say the dialogue is terrific in 'Long Kiss Goodnight.' I'm sure even Shane Black would be taken aback at that comment. It's not even attempting to be good. It's supposed to be over the top cheeseball stuff. It's on the level of comic book dialogue. The entirety of the 'character development' dialogue is made up of one cliche answered by another or lame running jokes. Watch a movie that doesn't have any explosions in it and you'll get a taste of what real dialogue is.
Chasing down a car on a pair of iceskates is involving? 'Bourne Identity' doesn't even come close, then? Not even a smidgeon?
So I've given up being objective.
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You mean to tell me you watch movies like 'Lost in Translation' and you consider the dialogue in 'Long Kiss Goodnight' not only tolerable but terrific? See, that's what I'm talking about incomprehensible. I'm not arguing that Mr. Black can write lively dialogue, I'm just saying the dialogue - like everything else in the movie - sucks. It's a solid one-star movie. And name-dropping isn't going to convince me you know what you're talking about.
share[deleted]
fergman3001 has obviously seen The Long Kiss Goodnight more than once. His posts are full of details about the film. Now why would anyone subject himself to such torture? Could it be that this "one-star" film is actually far better? Yep, that's it.
There's no reason to care for these characters. Who cares if anyone lives or dies at the end? Of course, we know the good guys will live. Oh, come on, you knew it.This isn't a valid critique of the film. You could probably make the same complaint about any drama. The Long Kiss Goodnight has a mom and her 9-year-old daughter. We can't help rooting for both of them. And even if we know they will prevail we can still enjoy the movie because we go for the whole, unfolding story and not just the ending.
It's a very eye-opening experience, posting things here on IMDb and reading others' posts. I've always considered myself to be a rather objective person. Able to see both sides of the argument, understand where people were coming from. But now I'm accepting the fact that this is not true. I have absolutely no idea what people are talking about sometimes as I read their comments about movies. My best guess would be to say they are working with completely different criteria.Translation: If you enjoyed The Long Kiss Goodnight you must be some sort of lunatic. fergman3001 beholds favorable remarks about the film, and now as a result he finds himself in a state of anomie. His entire world-view is upended. Hilarious! I hope this continues.
You mean to tell me you watch movies like 'Lost in Translation' and you consider the dialogue in 'Long Kiss Goodnight' not only tolerable but terrific? See, that's what I'm talking about incomprehensible.We can't praise anything about The Long Kiss Goodnight if we also happen to enjoy the latest critics' favorite? Ridiculous.
I can't help it! I love seeing myself quoted!
My goodness, I feel very honored to have my words dwelt upon with such depth. All right, coming back down from my little cloud of joy . . .
Actually, I have only seen this movie once. And that was more than enough. I happened to post right after I watched it so it was rather fresh in the mind. And I don't really think you guys are lunatics, though that was the first thought that popped in my mind when I read the posts lauding The Long Kiss Goodnight. Films like this are a dime a dozen and you can get everything you see in Long Kiss Goodnight in some other movie. So I have difficulty understanding why anyone would defend it or wonder why it did badly at the box office. It didn't do well because . . . well, read the above reasons. Most audiences do not like movies like this. That's why it did badly at the box office.
And I don't think there is a movie made where you can't say at least one good thing about it. For instance, I really like the shot where the guy is hanging from the lights or whatever and things are exploding as the camera tracks Geena stalking towards something. I really did.
The point isn't that the movie has you rooting for a nine year-old daughter and mother (though personally, I wasn't), it's that there is no tension. They never throw you something that says, 'Hey, watch out, we might just kill them.' Every indication from the time that they outrun a grenade explosion is that they are totally invincible. It's like James Bond, right? Only less plausible. Plus, I actually care if James Bond dies. I couldn't care less for these characters. Especially Geena Davis once she turns butch.
Lastly, I could care less about the critics' opinion. I like a lot of movies critics hate, and hate a lot of movies critics love. But Lost in Translation is everything The Long Kiss Goodnight is not: quiet, unique, insightful, and immersive. I just have trouble seeing how someone could like both kinds of movies, and that's why I wrote that I have stopped thinking of myself as objective. I like my movies, you like yours and there doesn't seem to be any way to reconcile the views. So be it.
Lunatic.
Ooooh, wicked.
It's abundantly clear that you don't like The Long Kiss Goodnight. But you keep returning to this page to discuss it further. Fascinating.
I didn't like American Beauty. And, strange as it seems, I'm not even slightly interested in visiting the IMDb board for American Beauty. I'm not interested in discussing the film at all. I'm happy to simply forget it.
Now why don't you just turn your back on The Long Kiss Goodnight forever, including all discussions thereof? You've made your points. Aren't you content with that?
Because I can't let someone else have the last word!
Well, I don't have to go through too much agony cause I've got that cool thing going where IMDb sends you an email telling you if someone replied to one of your posts. So all I have to do is check my email and there it is! A reply by mfburk!
And I just like talking to people about movies. Especially movies I don't like. There's nothing worse than a board that only has glowing comments on it. These message boards aren't only for people who like the movie, they're also for people who really DISLIKE the movie. You should go to the American Beauty board and spice things up.
Plus, I've gotten into the habit of looking up every movie I see on IMDb as soon as I finish it, and I usually scan the most recent posts to look for something interesting. Of course, after I saw one of the worst action movies I've ever seen, then saw a thread called 'Why did it so bad at the Box Office?!,' how could I resist?
So there are all my reasons. And tell me if you post over in the American Beauty board so we can have another lovely discussion there.
At least you're honest about wanting the last word!
I may visit the AMERICAN BEAUTY message board someday. I'll tell the folks there why the movie stinks. And I'll call them lunatics.
That's what I'm talking about.
shareFerg there's still one concept you seem to not have grabbed here.
It's called relativity. Not the Eintein principle, but the one that simply says "it's all relative".
You might want to consider that we are talking here about a "mindless action flick", which -on the premices of a Die Hard clone- actually delivers some pretty good scenes, decent script AND, yes, higher than average dialogues.
Again, it's all relative, -and subjective- and comparing this movie to the Bourne Identity movie(though very clearly TLKG is based "loosely" on the same novel) is like comparing Good morning Vietnam and Platoon. Same subject, two different takes.
I like both.
No, no, no. I'm not comparing 'Long Kiss Goodnight' to true masterpieces of film, or even just really good, entertaining movies like 'Bourne Identity.' I am judging it as it is - which, as you say, is a mindless action flick. I won't judge it as a Die Hard clone because once you're that, well, you're that and it's you're own fault. But, sure, I don't mind it being a mindless action flick. Wait, is 'Die Hard' a mindless action flick? Because if it is, I'm all for it. I love 'Die Hard.'
I am saying, no way. Not even for your run of the mill action movie is this a good script and 'yes, higher than average dialogues.' What are we talking about here that is above average? Did you guys see the director's cut or something? Just as a favor, could someone just quote a piece of dialogue that is above average? And I'll try to be fair. I'll think of it as 'above average for an action movie' above average. I will not compare it to any better movie. Just give me an example so I don't think you all are smoking the whacky weed while you're watching crappy movies like this one.
Here, it boils down to one point. Action movies have their place and I respect that place. I like a good action movie now and again. I don't see why action movies have to live up to their stereotype of cheesy and dumb all the time, but I'm willing to overlook most of their flaws just because I like the action. For instance, I really like 'Face/Off' in spite of the terrible dialogue and acting just because of that one shot when they fly off the boat in slow motion. I love that, and I overlook a lot of other things. But not only is 'Long Kiss Goonight' way more uninspired and way more cliched and way more cornball than 'Face/Off,' it also didn't give me as a viewer anything that I couldn't have gotten from another mindless action movie. What would I have missed if I hadn't seen 'Long Kiss Goodnight'? Besides these delightful conversations, of course.
And one more thing. If action movies are 'relatively' worse than every other kind of movie, why do you watch them?
> And one more thing. If action movies are 'relatively' worse than every other kind of movie, why do you watch them?
For instanse I came from night shift this morning, got a few hours of sleep and watched the movie. When you're wery tired you don't want to look at some long drama, you want something easy and entertaining. That's were action movies come to picture and Long kiss goodnight is to my opinion above average in that area.
I don't watch that much action but compared to few of the last I've seen this one was great. So what are the last ones? Van Helsing, Underworld and Strange days from which the last is the best but not even close to this one.
From Harlin I also liked Cliffhanger and Die Hard 2.
I watch this film now thinking of it more as a comedy/spoof rather than a straight action flick.
I think Jackson is hilarious in this though I think Gena Davis should have played it less seriously. e.g. when she steals the ciggarette from the boy she was funny and the director should have put more comic bits in for her. Instead you just keep waiting for Jackson to show up.
Yes, it could have been a parody if it didn't take itself so seriously. And you've got to communicate to me that it's a parody. Like 'Last Action Hero' did that well. Maybe a bit over-the-top, but at least I knew it wasn't serious.
And as for Jackson, I'll just watch 'Pulp Fiction' again.
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It's nice to have friends.
shareYou know ferg...I must be one of those lunatics you were referring to..I found this film entertaining enough to buy the dvd and do enjoy it as often as I see it...I feel that these type of films are pure escapist fare and no more,,and as such, held up admirably and, I dare say, quite funny,,one more thing, the quote is frank in new york and ernest in chicago...
shareWell, hey, I am not against escapism. If I want to escape, I always like going to Will Smith - Independence Day, Men in Black, Bad Boys. I just watched Desperado again a couple of days ago. I even like Predator, if you believe it! And I just watched it this year! But all these movies have something that Long Kiss Goodnight lacks - fun. I mean, you might have fun watching it (this is all subjective, right?), but if this is fun for you, then there are hundreds of movies that are much more original and entertaining and less annoying and predictable than this movie. That's all I'm saying. The question was: 'Why did it so bad at the Box Office?!' The answer is: 'There are many movies that deliver everything this movie does, better.' How much was the DVD, by the way? Five bucks or something?
Oh, and refresh my memory of that quote. I assume you're referring to my challenge to come up with a good quote from the movie? Yes, indeed, I have only seen this movie the one time, and any familiarity I seem to have with it comes from the fact I had recently watched it when I started posting on this board. So maybe a little context, please. It sounds okay though... 'Frank in New York and Ernest in Chicago.' Can't place it. I get the double meaning.
Yes, it could have been a parody if it didn't take itself so seriously. And you've got to communicate to me that it's a parody. Like Last Action Hero did that well. Maybe a bit over-the-top, but at least I knew it wasn't serious.
Last Action Hero a little over the top?
Okay, i understand why you don't like this film -- there's not much oxygen in the air on your planet.
And would you mind explaining in just what way this film "take[s] itself so seriously"?
And if you require a "This is Parody" notice upfront, you'd better stick to getting your praody from Mad magazine. (But stay away from issues from before about 1980, 'cos they actually expected you to be able to recognise parody and satire [and tell the difference, by gum] all by yourself.)
So you do consider this a parody?
Last Action Hero made it a clear point to take action cliches, point them out, and make fun of them. They started this early on and kept it up for the duration of the film. The problem with The Long Kiss Goodnight is that there are so many movies that are just like it, and certainly not all of them are parodies, that it's impossible for me to ascertain whether it's a parody or if it's something to be parodied. The Long Kiss Goodnight doesn't do anything, from what I remember, to indicate that it's a parody--other than be completely ridiculous. But just ten minutes with a Sci-Fi Channel original movie is enough to tell you that not all ridiculous movies are parodies. Being a bad action movie is not enough to constitue being a parody. You've got to let the audience in on the joke at some point. I think.
Now, as far as how this movie takes itself seriously. All the characters accepted every ridiculous situation and every ridiculous character with complete sincerity. There was never a point where the bad guys were like, 'She's on ICE SKATES???' In a film that doesn't take itself seriously, there are points where it pokes fun at itself, either at some of the over-the-top characters or the over-the-top situations. So if they had that, like Samuel L. Jackson commenting on how they out-ran a grenade explosion, the movie would have been a bit more bearable.
But even if it is a parody, it's not really funny enough. In fact, it's less funny if the creators were really trying to parody action movies, because at least now I can sort of laugh at their ineptitude. But mostly I just sat around waiting for it to end.
This movie just reminded me of the ideas for movies my friend would have in the seventh grade. There are many movies like that, and I really don't care for any of them. I would recommend this movie to a seventh grader, because this seems to be what they enjoy. I'll waste my time with a higher grade of entertainment, myself. Like True Lies! Bad Boys II! Really, anything with Arnold or Will.
Parody, at least what I recall from copyright law, is using a work and altering it to the point of absurtity. Satire's function traditionally is one that punishes vice through sarcasm and irony and rewards virtue, usually embodied in a satirical norm, character that represents the way the author thinks people should act. At least what I recall from British Literature in college.
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45! 22! Fight for freedom 'til we're free!
Bad Boys II?
Halfway through I turned it off because of the horrific swearing and endless car chases and shoot outs. TLKG wasn't a masterpiece, but I found it good enough to watch the ending. Too much cliché, I agree, but Bad Boys II is on my list of 10 worst movies.
Well, as I've said, tastes are different. For me, when I watch an action movie, I want to see action, and a lot of it. Bad Boys II delivered, and I like Will Smith and Martin Lawrence. I'm not sure what else to expect from action movies...
But, even though I don't care for Long Kiss Goodnight, I believe the ten reasons it did poorly in box office still stand even if I did. The reasons aren't so much of a critique as aspects of the movie that the movie-going audience generally does not care for, especially because at this point in history, they were being overwhelmed by movies of this nature. (Plus it's a rated R movie, which never make money...it's got to be Godfather if you want to see it pull down $80 million dollars in box office.)
I watched Lethal Weapon recently, the movie that started it all. I didn't really care for that one either. I don't like action movies that aspire to be dramas. Just give me action and leave the drama to people who can actually write it. I mean no offense, that's just how I like my movies.
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45! 22! Fight for freedom 'til we're free!
Your 10 reasons might stand for why it did poorly at the box office if it wasn't for the fact that no one contemplating going to see this movie would ever know any of those miniscule plot details.
This was a victim of an under marketed movie because Geena Davis wasn't a big enough draw at the box-office.
It's a clever script. Sammy Jackson, Geena Davis and Craig Bierko are all good, plus it has some good smaller roles from David Morse and Brian Cox.
I'll give you a free piece of advice Fergy, the reason you haven't hacked it as a Hollywood screenwriter is the same reason you can't tell this script apart from Bad Boys II.
Kids can be so cruel...
There's a phenomenon called 'word of mouth' and a marketing device called 'trailers' that have a lot to do with how people decide to watch movies. When a movie is good 'word of mouth' draws people into the theater faster than marketing can. 'Trailers' also give people a good indication if the movie is one they want to watch. If I had just seen a trailer to this movie, I still could have told you about all ten reasons.
Anyway, regardless of how it performed in box office, the number we should be concentrating on are the video and overseas revenues. That's really what the industry cares about. Domestic box office revenue is fairly insignificant.
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45! 22! Fight for freedom 'til we're free!
You admit yourself you never saw a trailer and don't remember this movie ever being out. The discussion ends there. That's why it didn't perform at the box office. Video sales are irrelevant since that isn't what the poster was talking about.
Word of mouth at the time was actually pretty good. The critics generally liked the movie. The studio just didn't want to spend any money marketing it after Cutthroat Island bombed.
You asked for clever lines of dialogue from the movie, well you don't have to go any further than the memorable quotes section of IMDB.
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Mitch: The last time I got blown, candy bars cost a nickel.
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Mitch: So, you cold?
Charlie: Yeah. Freezing.
Mitch: Turn on the heat. It doesn't work, but it makes a very annoying noise - distracts from the cold.
---
Mitch Henessey: What I'm saying is, back when we first met, you were all like "Oh phooey, I burned the darn muffins." Now, you go into a bar, ten minutes later, sailors come runnin' out. What up with that?
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Alley Agent: Good evening, pretty lady. How 'bout some company?
Charlie: No thanks. I'm saving myself 'til I get raped.
---
Nathan: Alice, please. Your dog, Alice. It and my appetite are mutually exclusive.
Alice: Well, what's wrong with the dog?
Nathan: Simple. He's been licking his *beep* for the last three straight hours. I submit to you that there is nothing there worth more than an hour's attention. I should think that whatever he is attempting to dislodge is either gone for good, or there to stay. Wouldn't you agree?
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Charlie: Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Mitch Henessey: I hope not, 'cause I'm thinking how much my balls hurt.
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Mitch: Oh, *beep* Ah, that hurt like *beep*
Samantha: I know. That's why I distracted you first. Same principle as deflowering virgins.
Mitch: Huh? What? Virgin - ? What?
Samantha: Read it in this Harold Robbins book. Guy bites her on the ear. Distracts from the pain. Ever try that?
Mitch: No, no, I sock 'em in the jaw and yell, "Pop goes the weasel."
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And they don't even have the great ham on rye line.
A masterpiece this aint, but if you can't separate this from your everyday Renny Harlin action movie, you have no business being anywhere near Hollywood...scratch that, you'll fit right in.
samuel jackson said in the car "we just jumped out of a building" with wild eyed kid like amazement...a wink to the audience and acknowledging humor and silly action movie conventions...i love this movie, and it may have flopped because the public didnt buy geena as action hero or president...predator and independance day are both better, but the veggie chopping scene to establish her past was charming, and showed a thoughtful approach to writing outside the box...anyway a pretty good action flick and fergie is a pretty good reviewer.enjoy.
shareAlley Agent: Good evening, pretty lady. How 'bout some company?
Charlie: No thanks. I'm saving myself 'til I get raped.
Don't you people get it? It "flopped" because the plot is subversive. The CIA staging acts of domestic terrorism? Look up Project Northwoods (not to mention 911). Ferguson is a disinfo creep just like all those mindless creeps in the movie who are given a gun and told to kill, and they do it just to feel powerful and above everyone else - devoid of conscience. Ferguson certainly seems to take a great interest in a movie he allegedly thinks is worthless. He knows damn well it's a great movie - he just doesn't like the message because it hits too close to home. And now he will ridicule this post like the good little disinfo agent he is.
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Sorry, but anyone who includes "Dumb and Dumber" in a list of acceptable, let alone good movies instantly loses credibility points. As you point out, your objectivity is suspect, as is anyone's when it comes to assessing entertainment. Everyone has different tastes and points of reference. That it seems to matter to you so much that you be "right" is all we really need to know. Other people obviously enjoyed the movie more than you did. Why does that bother you so much. I personally shared some of your criticisms, but still found it fairly entertaining. So, I guess that means I mystify you. I'll just have to see if I can live with myself knowing that I've disappointed KeithFerguson.
shareyour opinion loses alot of credibility saying dumb and dumber and se7en are great movies.
Charlie: Were you always this stupid, or did you take lessons?
Mitch Henessey: I took lessons.
you might try reading books. fun movie.
Geena was married to Renny Harlin when she made this movie, and also "Cutthroat Island" which was a pirate thriller. Her films with Harlin did not do that well at box office. I think that it was difficult for people to perceive Geena as an action heroine. Long Kiss Goodnight had some good moments, but I think it was a tad too long and at the end, I was waiting them to wind it up a little sooner than they did.
I think people had associated Geena with Tootsie, Accidental Tourist, Earth Girls are Easy and other flicks and weren't ready to buy her playing the "spy who came in from the cold."
"...truth against the world..." - attributed to Boudicca of the Iceni
While I want to disagree with your comment as a whole, I cannot, as
you are factually correct, to a degree.
I want to disagree because I liked this film very much.
I sometimes break films into two categories: Important vs Enjoyable
....but then I have to admit that this film is not Important,
but it was Enjoyable.
Many of my favorite films fall into this category.
("True Lies" is a good example)
I recommend that everyone get through as many of the Criterion type
of films as they can. These are films that really inform.
But I will never regret the simple enjoyments that un-important films
have brought to me.
That's the stupidest response ever. The OP was asking why it wasn't a hit film, he gave his reasons.
I loved this film as a kid, now I see the problems particularly David's acting.
Hey, about half those reasons you mentioned are what make this move so awesome. number five on your list for example, everything you listed in that one paragraph was what made that movie so freaking amazing, sure its not true to life... but movies are metaphors man. if you want reality go watch a documentary, and I'm not talking about any of Michael Moores films either, cause everyone knows he's full of *beep*
It's only after we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything.
I guess that's where we part ways. I must not find as much enjoyment from retardation as my friend here. I spent at least a minute trying to figure out exactly what you meant by 'movies are metaphors' and how that had anything to do with 'Long Kiss Goodnight,' but then I finally just gave up. And while I'm not sure I can all that much, would you mind explaining what you mean by that?
Also, I'd like to take time out to apologize to anyone who sees me as an a-hole. This is like a little release for me and I'm not really like this in real life. I'm much more easy-going and I'm not quite as condescending.
45! 22! Fight for freedom 'til we're free!
fergman(what a weird name),
this is the absolute first time i ever respond to this online dialog/blog crap. i just recently watched the Long Kiss Goodnight again, for quite possibly the 12th time wih a LKGN virgin. everyone i recommend this to loves it. for pulp B movie escapist entertainment it ranks up there with True Romance. the only movie i ever watched this many times was Aliens. i guess that's coz i'm a chick and i like watching stong, tough women taking on idiot men.
sure The Long Kiss Goodnight is cheezy. jeez, viewing it now i notice the blue sceening is horrendous, and i have to agree the acting isn't so great.i've worked in film and studied it, and it is my belief that if you see decent if not good actors acting badly you should blame the director. scratch any bad acting and you'll find a bad or out-of-their-depth director. and you like Predator? that one note, practically no plot, boy-boy flick? are you kidding? funny, Shane Black was in that (IMDB movie trivia).
i agree the stylist should have been shot, Charlie looks like a hooker half the time BUT the other half of the time she looks awesome, not that many women can carry off that hard look.
the plot holes were addressed above fairly i think. try to remember "it's a movie". how about when they are down in basement about to go into cold storage, that creep Timothy takes Mitch upstairs to kill him. makes no sense, why not kill them all together? could it be that Timothy likes torturing and killing people and needs alittle release? yes, the car escaping the chemical bomb at the end was a bit much, but so are many other famous scenes. i love old John Woo movies, but how many bullets does it take to kill a man in one of his? 15? is that because they are "Hong Kong" bullets? thats what i now call it in those types of scenes; "must be those Hong Kong bullets". and what about those guns? how many rounds do they have, like 25?
watching Samantha become Charlie on the water wheel was just awesome, the power of a truly pissed off woman is one the biggest film's delights, yes just like Ripley in Aliens, and Alabama in True Romamnce. when Charlie realizes that there is no way she can take on Timothy and the CIA and tells Mitch, that it will be last time she'll be pretty coz they're gonna blow her head off, i feel the real depth of it. the acting in these later scenes makes you believe it's almost true. this movie has pieces of that.
there are more one liners in this movie than are necessary but they are fun and mememorable;"chef's do that" when she tells mitch "it'll be just a minute" to save him. the lines about getting out of NJ. Mitch singing what he does. plus the "s***K my *beep* line is actually delivered well and comes off honestly (although it is a really cheezy line) she imbues it with feeling. much better than my other fav movie, Aliens. Geena Davies is way better than Sigorny Weaver when says,"stay away from her you bitch", and delivers it better than most of bad lines in the Terminator movies. yes, they should have used more of the humourous bits, it could have used an injection of humor all the way around.
for great pulp writing and "high concept" you can't beat the one line value; a school teacher with amnesia who finds out she was an assasin for the CIA - that just can't be beat. the next best high concept was Terminator; a man from the future comes back to the past to protect his leader's/ his son's life.
fergman, i don't know how many movies you watch, i watch a lot, you'd be surprised. maybe it's coz you're not a woman you don't understand how misdirection can work with kids. the kid is supposed to dreaming of the puppy, while the gas ignites the gunpowder.even a hardened bitch like Charlie can't resist the lure of her own kid, even if she didn't want her.
all in all, this cheezy, badly made film always entertains and makes me feel good, and my guests appreciate it too. plus the music is great. maybe you need to watch it again. i hated Pulp Fiction (and still barely tolerate it), but since it has been on tv so much i have begrudgingly come to like certain scenes. i will say that i still don't care for any of the characters except Bruce Willis' and Ving Rhames'. but don't listen to me, i hated Citizen Kane, and comimg from film school its practically sacreligious to say that. but i hated Citizen Kane and i didn't care even the tiniest bit about any character in that movie and that is the kiss of death. i like Kyslovsky films, and i like Tony Scott films. i like some Oliver Stone films (although i don't like Oliver Stone). i liked Lost in Translation. i don't think American Beauty was a particularly good film, but i do think Kevin Spacey and his character's development were great.
i could go on and on about The Long KIss Tonight and maybe i will have to, but i must say, if you watch it expecting nothing you will be pleasantly surprised. PS did you know the ending was re-shot? Mitch was supposed to die. the focus groups just couldn't accept that.
i can't wait to see "kiss Kiss Bang Bang" seems like Shane Black might have learned not to take himself so seriously
See, if someone had just said this in the beginning, I wouldn't have had to argue so much on this thread. All the posts above and below are me trying to get people to understand this movie is just plain sub-par. The question was 'Why did it so bad at the Box Office?!,' right? So I answered. Most people do not like this kind of movie. Some do. The people trying to defend this movie like it, I assume. This is a waste of time; don't defend it, just go on liking it, like Stephani. I just found it funny that someone could be at a loss to understand why this wasn't a big hit.
By the way, my last name is Ferguson. ferg-man. Eh. It's better than something like '**cyrixxyl0934**' in my opinion. Have you been enjoying that president show Geena's in now?
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fergman,
i wasn't answering the question: Why it did so bad at the box office, i was answering YOU (i followed the instructions - it said not to change the subject line). we all know Hollywood and the paying public has it's head up it's collective ass, why else explain stupid remakes, sequels and blockbusters?
look we all have our moronic guilty pleasures that we love and we sheepishly have to defend to others who don't see the beauty we do. movies are like every thing else, subjective. like they say, opinions are like ash***les, everyone has one. i have been just as high minded as the next one trying to convince friends that some piece of tripe is just that, but now i know that it is just a reflex reaction on my part thinking i am the worlds foremost authorithy.
i like it, cheese and all, but i'm not at a loss to explain why it did so bad at the box office - we all know Renny Harlin is a hack and men are afraid of strong women who can kill with impunity :)
infrequently,i come to see movie trivia on films i see and i like IMDb; the last polarizing film like this one was Man on Fire, which i just recently got to. have an opinion on that one?
i don't watch much tv
Man on Fire... I thought the ending was kind of a downer in a so-so way. Not really opinionated on that one.
I hope this doesn't get lost in the mix: I agree with you. I'm okay with you liking this movie. Some movies we like aren't really that good, but we like them anyway.
Some movies are really good that the general public doesn't like. This is not one of those movies. I think there is an affection for strong women in movies. You mentioned Alien. That went over well and had a strong woman in it. Now, there are much more movies with strong men, and I do think that strong women may threaten some people in certain circumstances. Other times they're just plain annoying, to me anyway. But I believe the reason people don't really care for this has little to do with the strong woman and more to do with the woman playing the strong woman, and the ridiculousness of the whole affair (see 10 reasons above).
For me, the movie I like that really isn't that good is Mystery Men. And I like Ernest Saves Christmas. I do not defend these movies in any way; I understand they are not all that good. I like them anyway, and that's fine, I think. Now, the movie we should be having this discussion about is Se7en. That's a movie, right there.
UPDATE: I also want to include Wild Wild West in the list of movies I like that no one else likes, and I want to point out that you will never see me on the message boards defending those movies. I like what I like, I let people dislike what they want to dislike. I'm not trying to convince anyone that they shouldn't like this movie. I'm just trying to make you understand that the 'American audiences' are not 'crazy' for not liking this movie.
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LOL I like the Long Kiss...and Wild Wild West, I don't know where that leaves us...And Ernest saves Christmas, well how could you not like it. So bad it's good
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Hey you fergman3001 you r very ridiculous talking about this movie in the way you did, first of all this an action movie and it isn`t a merchant and ivory production with high literary concepts in it. This is fiction and it is very entertainment for me. The dialogue was not like those of movies of the producers I just mentioned and I really love. But this film is better than many thats really sucks, it's true what another poster said why you still writing about this movie if you don't like it. I enojoyed SLJ, he was very funny and Geena had style in her performance, so I don't care your ridiculous argument TLKOG is a very good movie for many people like me, and plz shut up and get a life.
Even though i disagree whole heartedly with what you say, i couldnt help laughing while reading you post Fregman. It was very funny. Chasing a high speed car on iceskates. to funny
shareThe long kiss goodnight came out before The Bourne Identity, so technically, sin't the Bourne Identity ripping off The Long Kiss Goodnight?
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
-God
hoolywood, cliche!
I mean, everthing it´s made to be copied!!
Both movies are great, but this one is SOMETHING!
Preety Good....not so bad.
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"Nothing, absolutely nothing about this movie is original. The premise is a complete rip-off of 'Bourne Identity' with some half-hearted attempts to make it seem new, which I suspect are rip-offs of other things I can't think of right now. "
Only problem is the movie was made in 1996, whereas Bourne Identity was made in 2002, so you have it backwards. Bourne Identity is a rip-off of this movie.
We've been over this a few times on this board. The Bourne Identity had the great fortune to be a novel by Robert Ludlum in the 80's. Someone else pointed out that the graphic novel 'XIII' (later to be adapted into a videogame) came out a little after 'Bourne' was published, so The Long Kiss Goodnight could be ripping off that, and not Bourne Identity. But I'd lean more toward Bourne Identity since it was a fairly popular novel in the States when it came out and XIII was published in France, I believe.
Speaking of Bourne Identity, the Bourne Identity is a way better movie than The Long Kiss Goodnight.
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in response to #2. How can this be a rip-off of Bourne Identity when this was released 6 years earlier? Who is ripping-off who? I Don't think this movie is all that awesome or anything, but you can't call it a rip-off of something unless that something was out before it.
Edit: nevermind, Im a jackass. Move along.
Keith Ferguson
2. Nothing, absolutely nothing about this movie is original. The premise is a complete rip-off of 'Bourne Identity' with some half-hearted attempts to make it seem new, which I suspect are rip-offs of other things I can't think of right now.
Excuse me? When did bourne idenity come out. . 2002!?
A long kiss goodnight came out in 1996 so tell me
how could they rip off that movie if it hadnt even
been made yet??
"Excuse me? When did bourne idenity come out. . 2002!?
A long kiss goodnight came out in 1996 so tell me
how could they rip off that movie if it hadnt even
been made yet?? "
My goodness, the ignorance flows on this board..:))
"Religion is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx
Don't forget that TBI was first made into a movie in 1987.
"Religion is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx
I personally love the movie - it is what it is. It's a total cheeseball action flick, but with a woman, a middle-aged black guy, and a kid in the middle of the final chapter of action. How many movies can you say that about?
Anyway, no, it's not Citizen Kane, but I have a soft spot for the movie. And yeah, I love Shane Black's dialogue -- it's frisky and funny and tough, right out of a modern Raymond Chandler flick.
I still think the movie should have been a hit, and have enjoyed it every time I've watched.
And as far as the points you make farther down:
1. To each his own,
2. I seriously doubt that Shane Black would "admit" that his dialogue sucks -- after all, it earned him $3 million for this script alone (so no, I don't think it's self-evident); and
2. I would hope that there's room on any movie shelf for this movie as well as "Lost in Translation."
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a great action flick, and this one's great -- and for us girls, we get to empathize with a gorgeous strong woman who kicks ass. Samuel Jackson is funny and tough and moving, and the supporting characters are wonderful.
Frankly, I thought the movie was worth the price of admission simply for the scene in which Nathan catches Mitch when they're visiting Daedalus. It's just a very funny scene.
Besides: The stunts look awesome. And the explosions are big and really pretty! What more could anyone ask?
Just my 2 cents.
I have to agree with you here. I must admit I do like camp and silly action movies, but this movie was dull and too much. Starting with the scene of Geena making a salad, it was just a little too silly. And her Charlie voice? That was so annoying.
shareFurguson:
I can almost understand your critic of this film, but for one small yet glaring little fact.
>The premise is a complete rip-off of 'Bourne Identity' (the 1980 Robert Ludlum novel) with some half-hearted attempts to make it seem new, which I suspect are rip-offs of other things I can't think of right now.
TLKG was made in 1996. The Bourne Identity in 2002. Perhaps the "ripping off" is a tad reversed. And I point out the movie because the movie TBI was not nearly as closely linked to the novel as it might have been. Plus it was not put to the screen until almost thirty years after the novel was published.
You did do some service here though. You got a lot of people talking.
Honestly I had no idea Gena Davis had done a spy flick until I saw this last night (most of it anyway) channel surfing. From the title I thought it was a film based on Raymond Chandler. When I saw Gena I stayed tuned in because I like that she usually chooses quirky characters or makes her portrayal quirky.
I liked it. I'm not huge fan of actioneers. They are all pretty much the same. Snappy (at first) dialog and lots of explosions. It all does get rather tiresome after the first ten minutes.
I prefer a bit more substance in my choice of viewing.
But for a formulaic film, and any actioneer has to be these days, it was enjoyable.
I like how I even went back and edited the original post to say "the original 1980 Robert Ludlum novel" and people still call me to the mat.
If you like this actioneer, you should check out other ones that have snappier dialogue and cooler explosions. They're pretty fun.
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From the title I thought it was a film based on Raymond Chandler. When I saw Gena I stayed tuned in because I like that she usually chooses quirky characters or makes her portrayal quirky.
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"2. Nothing, absolutely nothing about this movie is original. The premise is a complete rip-off of 'Bourne Identity' (the 1980 Robert Ludlum novel) with some half-hearted attempts to make it seem new, which I suspect are rip-offs of other things I can't think of right now"
FINALLY, someone else sees this. Sadly, this was more Bourne than the Bourne movies that came out.
Now, I did think this movie was fun (Davis was pretty good) to watch. I just couldn't get over it being a female JB movie. Seriously, THANK YOU for seeing this as it was, a blatent Bourne rip off.
"Religion is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx
Ya but for some reason I just like this film. It falls under the so bad it is good catagory. I actually saw this film in the theatres. The name "Long Kiss Goodnight" may have had something to do with the marketing. It doesn't sound like an action movie title and even to those of us that knew it was an action movie, (This film was heavily marketed at the time of the release), action fans may have not wanted to see it simply because the name itself did not draw them into purchasing tickets. Gina Davis never was a good leading charactor and if they had used somone more popular at the time they may have had a better turnout.
shareKeith, did you just include Dumb and Dumber. along with pulp Fiction, Forrest gump, and Se7en in a sentence referring to great movies?
LMAO... Remind me never to ask your recommendation when i am in the mood to watch a movie.
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"Deadlands 2: Trapped" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1103262/
Amen, amen, and amen. This movie is way too long, packed with too many characters we don’t care about, and filled with ridiculous action set-pieces.
shareI just rewatched this movie yesterday--I can't help it, I freakin' love it! It's definitely uneven as far as tone and character development (why is Samantha/Charlie still with Mr. Boring at the end? Wouldn't all these revelations place a strain on her relationship?) but the dialogue and the obvious relish the actors display really make it for me.
I was kinda hoping Sam/Charlie and Mitch would end up together--their chemistry was interesting.
This was an under-appreciated gem. I'm sure the fact that Geena had just had a colossal bomb the year before (Cutthroat Island) didn't help. I'm thinking that the male audience had no interest in an action film that focused on a woman, and the female audience wasn't interested in an action film. A simplistic interpretation, I'm sure.
I actually like to include this film in Christmas-movie marathons. What? It's a Christmas movie! It starts with a Christmas parade, there's caroling, Christmas parties, and plenty of Christmas lights (complete with a man dangling from them while on fire). Family fun for everyone!
It such a greet movie It's on Dutch TV right now :) it has been like 4 times on TV here already..
shareLaat ze maar lullen Brigitte!
shareAnyone who thinks this is a great movie is clearly being influenced by 1. It's a woman in an action role or 2. They like Geena Davis or 3. They are high...
This is the dumbest flick of '96, hands down...
Well, how can anybody argue with such a well crafted addition to the argument? You've certainly made me think.
shareI too liked that movie. I thought it was fun and entertaining. A bit over the top, but still fun.
shareI agree, I loved the movie. It's one of my favorites.
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This movie did so badly at the box office because it was rubbish. The acting was rubbish, the script was rubbish, the action was rubbish. I always thought it could have been so much better. The kid who played her daughter, and i hate to say this about a kid but the acting was terrible. Two scenes always make me feel embarressed for the actors, one is where they are in the big freezer and Charlie is trying to make a spark and the kid takes matches from her cast, And before the explosion Charlie says "Should we get a puppy?" i mean, WHAT??? This to me seems to be an attempt to make Charlie seem more don't care-ish, she's about to trigger an explosion and she's talking about getting a dog....
The second is when she is driving the truck and i think the brakes fail and she says "Its not fair!!" awwwww poor Charlie, I mean here she is some hard ass assassin and all she can say is that. This movie is trash. There are probably worse moments but i havent bothered to watch it since the first time.
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Okay... your reference is another movie. You're seriously telling other people to watch a different MOVIE to see what a grenade is really like blowing up. Black Hawk Down is not a documentary.
share"2. Nothing, absolutely nothing about this movie is original. The premise is a complete rip-off of 'Bourne Identity'.... "
except for the fact that it came out 6 years before bourne identity??
But not after the book. I enjoyed the movie better than Bourne, actually, but there seems to be an unwritten rule:
"Never make an action movie starring a woman. It's box office poison."
Guess the producers of KILL BILL VOLUME ONE AND TWO didn't hear about that rule.
shareNo, you're right. But they're the only ones and frankly they only did well because Tarantino made them.
Doesn't mean they were any good, or that they worked any better than other action movies with female leads.
""2. Nothing, absolutely nothing about this movie is original. The premise is a complete rip-off of 'Bourne Identity'.... "
except for the fact that it came out 6 years before bourne identity??"
Signmeup, all I have to say, is WOW!! The book was referenced, not the awful movie version of '02.
"Religion is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx
It had the same director and star as the biggest ever flop in cinema history which had come out a year before.
It was pretty much doomed regardless of merit.
Same rule. Same memory problems. Shame, because I liked Long Kiss Goodnight.
shareGeena Davis as an action star. That's why it failed.
Check out my new column: www.thewrestlingvoice.com/columns/josemaldonado
And Uma Thurman is more convincing...I don't think. Remember Batman and Robin and the execrable Avengers??
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God only knows. It deserved better.
When I look up from my pillow I dream that you're there with me...
In late 1996 anything with the names Geena Davis and Renny Harlin attached was going to tank. They'd already tried Geena as an action star in Cutthroat Island and it was the biggest flop in history. Even if this film looked somewhat better in the preview it still had that "Geena Davis as action heroine" stigma.
Kill Bill is really the only female action movie that's ever done well at the box office. The target audience is mostly male and doesn't want to see a dominant female action character...and on the other hand a lot of men dislike seeing a pretty female star getting beaten up in a movie. Kill Bill has quite a few similarities to Long Kiss Goodnight plotwise (woman assassin pregnant and left for dead, she eventually meets up with the guy at the end, etc).
On another note I don't think people liked Samuel Jackson in such an inept role. For much of the film he's constantly being captured and needing her to save him (save for the brilliant scene near the end).
And let's face it. The only reason Kill Bill did well at the box office can be said in one word. Tarantino.
share...because Tarantino makes good movies and Renny Harlin doesn't.
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"because Tarantino makes good movies"
Really? Can't say I'd noticed. He's a fad, nothing more. Tarantino benefited from this, while for years Clint Eastwood suffered from this: his movies were seen as poorly directed, yadda yadda, until Unforgiven came along and now everyone loves ALL of his movies.
Worse still, he takes from other movies without crediting them. He takes so much from other movies it's more of a quilt. Kill Bill, for example, steals much from Long Kiss Goodbye - a female lead with deadly abilities, shot in the head and left for dead, a young daughter, a one-eyed avenger, Samuel L. Jackson, a group out to kill her....funny really. He reminds of the director in the Dead Pool....
"This movie is absolutely ridiculous! An unsuspecting, unarmed woman taking on a shotgun loaded with incidiary rounds wielded by a professional killer? Chasing down speeding cars on ice skates? A car escaping an explosion projected to kill four thousand people by driving away from GROUND ZERO in under a minute? Driven by a guy who's been bleeding out for at least fifteen minutes from a rifle round to the chest? And what does it take to kill people these days? Every main character should be dead at least three times over by the end of the movie. I know it's an action movie, but come on, there's a limit to how far I'm willing to go. "
And Kill Bill doesnt have unrealistic action?
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And Kill Bill doesnt have unrealistic action
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No! It's completely realistic. One woman can kill and maim hundreds of guys with just a sword, some flying and come out without a single scratch.
One woman can survive a point blank double barreled shotgun blast to the chest from three feet part and survive it.
Agree with you on Kill Bill and I know people who have been put off watching LKG by Geena Davis being in it, but got to say loved Samuel Jackson in this role. Admittedly I'd find it hard not to like him in any role but this one is definitely my favourite.
shareReally? This is your favorite Sam Jackson role? Even more than Jules in Pulp Fiction? Really?
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Yep, 'fraid so, love it. Haven't seen pulp fiction for a while, may stick it on at the weekend now you've mentioned it, but you only saw one side of that character. I think its cos its more beliveable to think that there is a Mitch out there than a Jules. I'm not pitching the film above pulp fiction they're different and I like them both but yeah love Mitch.
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fergman3001, I am very impressed to see you return to this particular board over and over again. Dare I ask if, in the year that has passed, The Long Kiss Goodnight has become one of your favorite films?
shareI personally loved TLKG. I always thought it was smart, and the script was pretty funny. Ok, so you had to suspend any form of reality for it, but isn't that a good thing? I love nothing more than to escape from my life with a shot-'em-up flick, and this was just alittle different from the rest. Not neccessary better, just different. Geena Davis, I think, parodied her wholesome image in Samantha, and looked like she was having a ball when she got to be Charly. It's all good! Samuel L Jackson totally made me believe in his Mitch, his smart but dumb personality was as full a character he has acted.
And, incase anyone is forgetting, many great films have bombed at the box office. The most obvious ones (to me) are Mallrats and The Shawshank Redemption. Two radically different movies, sure, and before anyone gets annoyed I'm not comparing any of these to each other, but the fact remains the same. Some great movies simply don't do well at the box office.
Red xx
"I'm just a *beep* up girl who's looking for her own peace of mind. Don't assign me yours."
I liked this movie.
YOU GOT A POINT!
I MEAN, THELMA & LOUISE WAS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME WAY....
DONT U THINK:
Hey, man, sorry I didn't see this question before. I like it, very funny.
The answer is: of course this film is not one of my favorite films. I have yet to see it again and never plan to. But as long as people post some interesting reply to my posts, I'll keep posting. This is one of the very few boards I visit here on IMDb.
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Why did it do so badly at the box office? A female lead.
All-out, rip-roaring action movies with female leads are box-office poison. I don't like it (in fact, I hate it)but it's true. The minute people see a trailer where the main character is a woman blowing away bad guys and yelling catch-phrases, it is doomed. Same thing goes for female superhero movies.
Hollywood knows this. That's why they don't make many of them and when they do, they don't sink much money into it because they think it's a waste of time - thus we get "Catwoman" and the marginally superior "Elektra." It's a vicious cycle. They thought "Alias" and "La Femme Nikita" would have acclimated people to kick-ass women but ... no. They have a very loyal but not very broad fan base that translates into reliable DVD sales but not $100M in theater receipts.
The only statistically significant exception has been the "Underworld" series, and they're really cross-genre (with the monster angle) rather than true action flicks. Ashley Judd (*yum*) flirted with action-movie status in "Double Jeopardy" but that was more of a thriller/chase movie, no explosions or automatic weaponry.
I really hope "Wonder Woman" does well but I ain't holding my breath.
People have been pointing to the female lead a lot, and while that may be one component of why audiences didn't go out to see it, I think all the other reasons are more than enough to keep audiences away. When this film was released, the market was saturated with this kind of movie. At that point, you really had to bring something to the table to get people into the theater. Also, keep in mind action movies usually do better on video, considering the majority never make it into theaters.
Personally, I can't think of a single thing sexier than a hot woman kicking ass, but you need more than that to get me to go see the movie. I believe guys want kick-ass women, it just so happens a lot of those movies suck (like the aforementioned Catwoman and Elektra). Ultraviolet. The one with Charlize. The movies would have done just as bad as the box office if a guy was starring, maybe worse. I'm sure the only reason anyone saw Catwoman was to see Halle Berry in leather.
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Keithy Keithy Keithy - you kind of spelled it all out nicely above when you said you got turned off Geena when she went all butch. Sorry to break it to you my dear, but you are an action mysogynist.
"Guys want kick-ass women"? Well, bully for you. Speaking as a female (action) movie fan, I found it incredibly refreshing to see the female as (a) lead and (b) not constantly poured into some unlikely PVC number (a la Catwoman, Elektra and other such dreck). You know, what you called Geena going all butch? AKA Geena not being in perfect costume and makeup after a huge action sequence? Shocking I know that a female lead could be in a film to be something other than eye candy for you guys. How yawnsome for you.
I feel the need to defend myself a little from being called an 'action mysogynist.' First of all, I want to clarify that I never said I was 'turned off' by Geena going butch. I believe the words I used were, 'I cringed every time she turned into "Charlie."' I cringed because that voice was so pathetic and annoying I could do nothing but. It had nothing to do with Geena's sexual attractiveness at that point, just her terrible, terrible acting.
Another thing I may point out that you probably didn't know: I haven't seen Catwoman, Elektra, Ultraviolet, etc.; all the movies with sexy leads using the movie as an excuse to squeeze into 'clothes.' I have seen Aliens. I have seen the Kill Bills. I don't feel that either leads in those movies were objectified all that much. So I guess that helps my case, that I liked Kill Bill even though Uma Thurman's ugly as hell. But she doesn't make me cringe when she affects a 'deep,' 'gruff' 'voice' (because she doesn't).
One problem I find in Long Kiss Goodnight, Aliens, and Kill Bill is that it seems women have to transform from the stereotypical female into the stereotypical male to accomplish anything. I'm not sure what to think of that--are the qualities needed from an action lead inherently male? Or can a woman approach these same situations without compromising her femininity (and, even more of a challenge, without exploiting her femininity)? Or are phrases like 'masculinity' and 'femininity' constructs of our society and have nothing to do with our true natures? These are questions I can't answer sufficiently. All I know is, I like action movies, but I like women a lot more, and I hope that one day we can watch a movie where the female lead kicks ass without having to act like a man or a sex pot.
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All I know is, I like action movies, but I like women a lot more, and I hope that one day we can watch a movie where the female lead kicks ass without having to act like a man or a sex pot.
I heard of that one. People tell me the main character has to affect a man-like voice and an asexual (but leaning toward masculine) name because the people who made it obviously think women are weak.
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How's the script writing career going? Have you had any success convincing people you're not talentles? I would think it's a bigger up hill battle than convincing us this movie's poor.
shareWhoa-ho-ho! Ad hominem attack out of left-field! I like it. Keep it coming, biggie Steve. Your movie will still suck.
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Sounds like someone's been turned down by the CSI people one too many times.
Keep at it, even though it's clear you have no talent and everything your career has amounted to so far seems to confirm that, don't let it keep you down. You're a winner, really.
I try not to tell people what to do, but I think I do need to say that I believe it's inappropriate for an established presence in Hollywood such as yourself to pick on lowly people like me trying to make their way up the food chain.
But though your words may be a bit jarring, maybe you're right--maybe six months toiling in Tinseltown without a major movie deal is enough time to show me I don't belong here. Especially if I can't recognize a masterpiece like TLKG, obviously the Citizen Kane of the 90's. If that's the case, though, we've got a lot of people to give bad news to. Forget months, there are people out here for *years* and they haven't done anything! And most of them probably don't like Long Kiss Goodnight, either! Can you believe it?
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Oh I doubt very much established writers would watch The Long Kiss Goodnight and say it was bad.
You can be of the opinion that you didn't like it, but the script is much more clever than most. Sadly, I can't say the same for you.
Well, Keith, I appreciate your constructive attempt to respond to my point. So often these message boards turn into pointless flame wars (as has happened adter my comment here). But I just want to reference the comment I was referring to, where you said:
"I couldn't care less for these characters. Especially Geena Davis once she turns butch."
Now, granted you didn't use the phrase "turned off", but the implication was pretty clear.
Me, I believe that "masculinity" and "femininity" are social contructs (as witnessed by the way they change from era to era and from society to society)but I genuinely don't think that this film requires Geena Davis to turn into the stereotypical male at all. In fact, if anything it ends up with a rather mature balance. She starts out as a stereotype and, I agree, turns into a different stereotype but then rather intelligently morphs into a much more pleasing whole human being, as it were.
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well, I dont think that...
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