She's a slut and a whore. Another example of Hollywood's PC double standard. Before you start trying to convince me that it's poignant and romantic, tell what you would think if it was a husband that banged some chick passing though town while his wife was away taking care of the kids. Well hypocrites? What do you say now? Can anybody say "Fatal Attraction?"
sharewowee. So, yer saying this movie really affected you, huh?
I been there, buddy. People are human. That's what I think this movie really says. People are human. They have dreams that are never realized, "hopes" that cannot be. Parents are real people, is another thing this movie says.
I'm sorry, man. "She" did that to me, too. But maybe...maybe I never knew her, either.
Just saying.
-gami
The movie itself didn't personally affect me. What does bother me is the way vows, oaths, promises, etc. are becoming things one breaks when it pleases one to do so and then justify later.
Not just husbands and wives. Politicians, police, doctors, lawyers, priests and all the others that swear to act in our best interest if we trust them and as soon as our back is turned they take advantage of that trust.
This movie is one more example of justification of that behavior.
And as I said, would you see it the same way if it were a man? Probably not.
lol...a lot of people mistake my tag for female, so i'll let that pass.
Ogami was a great samurai, who's wife was killed. He threw the rest of his life away, pursuing her vengeance. Search "The Baby Cart" series. If you like samurai movies, you'll love it.
I agree, sir. I do. But I still believe in love. And I know, sometimes, love is inconvenient.
It's not a justification, IMO. It's just...what happens. Yes, she broke her vows. I'll grant you that.
I wish I could say I have kept every promise I have made, but I can't. And that *beep* eats at me like a maggot.
But..in the end...I really wish "she" had just been happy, with me, or without.
But, we don't get that. There is the choice. Honestly, I am glad she left, because a life with her unhappy would have been so much worse than at least knowing she chased her dream.
Maybe I am reading too much into it.
Have a good night, brother. Don't let the hypocrites get you down.
[deleted]
BTW, I said "If it were a man" not "If you were a man"
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I'm not sure if it's hypocritical, but it's a sorry excuse for a movie.
So women (and men) watch this and think how beautiful it will be to cheat on their spouse.
Sorry, origami, but that is no answer at all. I would not put the case as strongly as the original poster. But "hoping for something better" is not an excuse for moral failure. The character, in choosing to stay, recognizes that--and it is only sentimental rubbish to assume that "she is better for it."
We may be human--but that is no excuse for bad behavior. Even though she does not entirely live up to this, Hepburn's character in The African Queen had the right idea: "Nature, Mr. Allnaut, is what we were put here to rise above."
...avoid watching another Streep film from a decade before, "Falling in Love".
People are imperfect. you can make interesting and even moving stories of things they might have to be forgiven for.
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ok. gonna jump back in:
When I was a cab driver, a long time ago, I had a fare. Her name was Heather, and she reached over and grabbed my FIMO necklace, and asked me what the flame meant.
I was in college in Bryan at the time. I would drive in to Austin every weekend to drive a cab, and make money for my wife and I to live on. She stayed at the house on the ranch we lived on while I was gone.
Heather had a husband whom she said paid no attention to her. Every weekend, she would be my first and last fare. We loved each other, the hot, dangerous love of lost people.
After 4 or 5 weekends, she brought me into their apartment, while he was at work, and pulled me to their bed. But I couldn't. As she placed my hand upon her breast, i ran from the apartment, mumbling something about "soul stains"...
I never saw her again. And I have never forgotten the time we shared...parks, movies, holding hands...scared, feeling we had made a mistake, and were making a mistake, like some sick swirled pudding, but instead of yummy vanilla and chocolate, it was a bitter mix of betrayal and regret.
I miss her still, even though my marriage crumbled when my wife had the 'balls" to do what I couldn't.
So...I get this movie.
But I get where OP is coming from too.
Just thought I would throw that in.
-gami
People can make all the promises,oaths,vows they want but at the end of the day everything is easier said than done.
I'm gonna die unless you kill me!
Ogami
Your comments are touching. The film just appeared this evening here in England.
The heart has a voracious appetite and needs constant feeding. We become blinded by our actions when we become desperate to nourish the heart and we are alleged to be cruel for having fed it.
That good old heart of ours is an ocean of deep emotions and needs, refuse to feed it at your peril, but when feeding it with abandon, accept the caveat you can get your hands bitten off!
And the worst part of it all is that the older we get, the intensity of the emotion never wanes!
I agree, Ms Streep's performance is dual - she acts with her mind and words, but my oh my, she lets her emotions move with an almost wanton hubris!
Well done!
Fr B+
May all your journeys be ones of discovery
I agree, it is voracious, and that is why it enslaves the mind into it's eternal service (lying and denying) to cover it's metaphorical ass. love can be anything, the only thing we know for sure about it is that it is a strong driving force. In the end it's all just the idealization of a biological trick that we feel the need to make reverence to because we know we wouldn't be here without it (or rather the true outcome of 'romantic' love, that's sex people). The existence of 'feelings' at all is a miracle, obsession with lying about and dressing up animal carnal desire (and I include the idea of 'dreams' in the context of this film) is not something that interests me in narrative terms! Plus I have never understood the fuss made about meryl's acting, it's ok.
shareFor my own psyche I would suggest your statement perhaps trivialises a bit too much, that which you describe as carnal desire. Indeed, carnal desire often exists. But the pain we experience, whether it be from longing, or loss, has its own intensity.
As humans we can verbalise that emotion. However, certain animals are certainly demonstrative in their emotion of loss.
Ms Streep's acting encompasses that rather unique ability, which so many of us fight so hard to hide, to reach deep within her surface and touch her inner-most deeply personal and intimate life experiences. That in and of itself, I don't believe to be acting, but a willingness to stand naked before a mirror and examine oneself with a cruelty not even the most passionate of lovers could ever do.
And it becomes a gift to us who sit in the dark, absorbing those fleeting seconds of intimate reality as if we were the vilest voyeurs imaginable.
I agree, the acting is perhaps 'okay.' However, it's the rawness she exposes which brings her skills to such epic heights. I first saw this fleeting glimpse during her role in Sophie's Choice.
"The heart has a voracious appetite" blah blah blah. Yeah, but the brain is supposed to keep things under control. It is possible to remain physically and emotionally faithful to one's spouse for a lifetime.
shareWhat she has done to her relationship with Richard is violating and sad, but the relationship between Francesca and Robert is very romantic.
If my husband did something like this to me I'd flip out and I wouldn't give a damn if they were in love. He should divorce me first and then pursue his love interest, but I still find the scenes between Francesca and Robert very passionate and magnetic because their connection reminds me of me and my boyfriend minus the infidelity. Anyway, it's just a movie.
Possible spoiler!
It is clear in the film, as he says in the end, that her husband did not fulfill all her dreams. It wasn't so abnormal but what makes this film and story so special is that she gave him up and went on devoting herself to husband and the children and that she knew how it would make everyone miserable if she left. THAT is what this film is more about than infidelity.
Besides, there wouldn't be any film if the affair wouldn't have happened, is there? Can you imagine a film in where Kincaid would just have come for talks and nothing more? It's just a film, but the drama comes from the choice she had to make, like in "Sophies Choice".
Dude, I think you have issues.
shareShe's a slut and a whore. Another example of Hollywood's PC double standard. Before you start trying to convince me that it's poignant and romantic, tell what you would think if it was a husband that banged some chick passing though town while his wife was away taking care of the kids. Well hypocrites? What do you say now? Can anybody say "Fatal Attraction?"
I think her husband became more than just a friend, she was with him for fourteen years after the affair im sure he or I should say they were part of each other. im sure there love making was up and down just like everyone else it could not have been that bad at least im sure he at least once in a while made love to her satisfaction.
shareI thought it was just an entertaining movie.
shareYou are a dope
shareThe double standard is ridiculous. In films, women are always glorified in their infidelities. Numerous excuses are made and it's always this epic, poetic and beautiful thing even though the fact is she is nothing but a selfish, cowardly slut. It's incredible--I've seen films where a man cheats (which is equally disgusting and inexcusable in my eyes) and women tear him apart, cuss him out, etc. Then these same women will watch films like this, A Walk On The Moon, Unfaithful, etc, and make the most insane excuses the actions of the cheating wives. I've never understood why screenwriters or novelists can't write a story about someone who is not attached (no bf/gf, spouse, etc) who is burnt out and just sort of floating along in life and whose world is lit up by a mysterious stranger who they meet...just something along those lines. Why does it ALWAYS have to be about cheating?
share[deleted]
I agree with you about women...and I AM a woman!!! Women are often very hypocritical. The femi-nazi's screwed us all. But that's beyond the scope of this board. Haha! I have had many female "friends" over the years that fall into this soulmate crap and I've known a few who have destroyed their husband's and children's lives following their hearts. I think this movie is different though. Francesca wasn't a modern woman. She did love her family and made the right, mature, and adult choice in the end. But so many people today...in real life do not make the right choice. People are very narcissistic here days. Sad.
shareI agree with you about women...and I AM a woman!!! Women are often very hypocritical. The femi-nazi's screwed us all. But that's beyond the scope of this board. Haha! I have had many female "friends" over the years that fall into this soulmate crap and I've known a few who have destroyed their husband's and children's lives following their hearts. I think this movie is different though. Francesca wasn't a modern woman. She did love her family and made the right, mature, and adult choice in the end. But so many people today...in real life do not make the right choice. People are very narcissistic here days. Sad.
share