MovieChat Forums > The Stand (1994) Discussion > The Third spy..

The Third spy..

posted 8 years ago by zigomanis18
17 replies | jump to latest

OK..So in the movie...

FLAGG goes nuts on Dayna, the second spy..because he wants to know the name of the third spy....threatening to toruoure her if she would not talk. And then likewise he almost kills Lloyd for not telling him sooner. it seems so important to him.

And yet, when Lloyd does tell him who the third spy is, Flagg acts like it's no big deal even stating so. "No biggie, send 100 men out after him". So, for someone who seemed so keyed in on finding out who the third spy was, when he does find out, he doesn't seem to care about it. Terrible story writing.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gary_overman 8 years ago

Also a hundred men after one guy is a bit overkill.

Not necessarily. Remember that Flagg wanted to find Tom and he stood a much better chance of doing so if he put more people into the search. After all, the continent had recently been decimated.

Besides, didn't the Free Zone put a lot of people into the search for Harold and Nadine when they fled?

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] voni-87996 8 years ago

I think it's because Flagg didn't know at all!!!! Even as a crow (if that's what his familiar was) couldn't "see" Tom. Evidently Flagg couldn't see into innocent goodness or maybe the story was trying to say how God looks after old people, children and drunks. Tom fell into the second category because he was virtually innocent of all evil. JMO

[–] BullSchmidt 8 years ago

As long as we're talking about the spies, here's something I've wondered about.

Tom's retardation blocks Flagg's vision, so Flagg doesn't know who Tom is. So far so good.

Dayna has no such handicap, so Flagg can see who she is. She goes to Vegas, sleeps with Lloyd, etc. All the while Flagg is aware of this, but is content to wait and take her at a time that is best for him. Understood.

Now, regarding Judge Farris. Like Dayna, he's of perfectly sound mind. And there's nothing else "special" about him; he doesn't have psychic flashes like Joe, for example. So Flagg is aware of who he is, sees him coming, etc.

So why send Bobby Terry and others out to catch Farris? Why not just wait for Farris to arrive in Vegas? Works well enough in Dayna's case.

The only thing I can figure is this. Farris, being the old guy he was, would have died on the way to Vegas if left to his own efforts, and Flagg knew this. (Note that I don't mean that Flagg is doing this out of simple prudence, just in case Farris were to end up in some sort of accident; I mean that Flagg can actually see into that "alternate timeline" and knows with certainty that Farris would croak if left alone. Although this distinction really doesn't matter as far as my question goes.)

Anyway, that's the only explanation I can figure. Problem is, there's nothing in the book or miniseries to affirmatively hint at this, and ... hope I don't offend any hardcore fans ... that just seems to subtle for The Stand, or even for Stephen King in general. Don't get me wrong, I like the story well enough, but it is what it is and it ain't what it ain't.

Opinions? Comments?

[–] jstitely1 8 years ago

My thoughts with the spies is that you are slightly overextending Flagg's power. Yes, he can know those things when he is interacting with them or seeing them through his familiar. He had pretty much no interaction with Dana so he hd no reason to have basically read her mind. He wasnt around her or focusing on her. i don't think his abilities are just completly omniscent. He has to be looking into something specifically to see it. Its part of why Dana kills herself. She knows he is going to use his abilities on her once caught to find out Tom. If he could just immediatly know everything all of the time through his powers, he wouldve actually known about Tom through Dana's memories earlier.

[–] gary_overman 8 years ago

As long as we're talking about the spies, here's something I've wondered about.

Tom's retardation blocks Flagg's vision, so Flagg doesn't know who Tom is. So far so good.

Dayna has no such handicap, so Flagg can see who she is. She goes to Vegas, sleeps with Lloyd, etc. All the while Flagg is aware of this, but is content to wait and take her at a time that is best for him. Understood.

Now, regarding Judge Farris. Like Dayna, he's of perfectly sound mind. And there's nothing else "special" about him; he doesn't have psychic flashes like Joe, for example. So Flagg is aware of who he is, sees him coming, etc.

So why send Bobby Terry and others out to catch Farris? Why not just wait for Farris to arrive in Vegas? Works well enough in Dayna's case.

The only thing I can figure is this. Farris, being the old guy he was, would have died on the way to Vegas if left to his own efforts, and Flagg knew this. (Note that I don't mean that Flagg is doing this out of simple prudence, just in case Farris were to end up in some sort of accident; I mean that Flagg can actually see into that "alternate timeline" and knows with certainty that Farris would croak if left alone. Although this distinction really doesn't matter as far as my question goes.)

Anyway, that's the only explanation I can figure. Problem is, there's nothing in the book or miniseries to affirmatively hint at this, and ... hope I don't offend any hardcore fans ... that just seems to subtle for The Stand, or even for Stephen King in general. Don't get me wrong, I like the story well enough, but it is what it is and it ain't what it ain't.

Opinions? Comments?

You do have an intriguing theory, but I also have to give credit where it is due and say that you also see the weakness: to wit, it is not mentioned or indeed even hinted at in the story.

But if Flagg was as prescient as your theory needs him to be, why did he not see that God was, for lack of a better term, setting him up with the Journey of The Four to Vegas?

[–] raputathebuta 8 years ago

Wasn't Flagg planning on sending the Judge's head back to The Free Zone as a warning? Wasn't there a big deal about not shooting him in the head/face because Flagg wanted to send it back? I can't remember if he was going to do it with Dayna too, but he does flip out when she outsmarts him & kills herself.

Driver picks the music, shotgun shuts his cakehole

[–] gary_overman 8 years ago

Wasn't Flagg planning on sending the Judge's head back to The Free Zone as a warning? Wasn't there a big deal about not shooting him in the head/face because Flagg wanted to send it back? I can't remember if he was going to do it with Dayna too, but he does flip out when she outsmarts him & kills herself.

Yes; Flagg did plan on sending the spy's heads back in boxes. He wanted no question about who the Free Zone folks were looking at, which was the reason that he killed Bobby Terry: he destroyed the Judge's head.

In the book, Lloyd asks Flagg whether he wanted him to take Dayna's head. I don't remember if he did this in the film.

[–] znapper 7 years ago

I have a problem with the spies in general.

None of them reported back, all but one died and he only made it back a few miles, before the film was actually over.

So, what was the point of having spies there at all?

[–] gary_overman 7 years ago

I have a problem with the spies in general.

None of them reported back, all but one died and he only made it back a few miles, before the film was actually over.

So, what was the point of having spies there at all?

The Free Zone Committee knew there was a risk that the spies might not provide anything useful, but it was a chance they were prepared to take.

However, even though the spies did not impart any useful information for the Free Zone, they still had a great impact on Flagg's operation in Vegas. They did this by two of them dying the way they did (the capture and death of both Dayna and the Judge went awry) and Tom escaping. Things had been getting 'flaky' for Flagg, and the episode of the spies made it obvious to everyone in Vegas. His people started thinking that Flagg's victory over the Free Zone was perhaps not quite as inevitable as they had thought at first. Thus, morale was becoming a big problem for Flagg thanks to his own failures.

So the spies did serve a useful function after all. This is actually explained in the book somewhat better.

Hope this helps.

[–] znapper 7 years ago

Thank you, great explanation ^^

[–] gary_overman 7 years ago

Thank you, great explanation ^^

It was my pleasure.

[–] NorthernLad (472) 4 years ago

Again...another part of the story that is pretty much pointless.

[–] Gary O. (1000) 4 years ago

Again...another part of the story that is pretty much pointless.

I have to disagree here.

Like I said above, the spies, while I grant that they didn't do what the Free Zone Committee sent them out to do, they DID have an enormous impact on Flagg himself and on the populace. Granted, at first, it was mostly psychological, but this psychological impact was what ultimately led to Flagg's destruction.

And then there is what Tom did on his way back to the Free Zone. That had a big impact on Stu. So the spies were not quite as pointless as some would have us believe.

[–] NorthernLad (472) 4 years ago

Think of it though...Tom survived due to some divine intervention (I believe this). I think it had something to do with being hypnotized and it somehow blocked him from Flagg. In the end, the only good thing he really did as a spy was get while the getting was good and help Stu...so sure that's a plus for sending him. But when the committee starts drawing up plans to send spies west, they mention, "we're probably sending them to their deaths." So....why send them if they can't report back? What's the point?

[–] Gary O. (1000) 4 years ago

Because there was a chance, admittedly small, that the people sent could come back with information that help them in what the Committee saw as the up-coming battle with Flagg. Keep in mind that they were all volunteers (although Tom's ability to made a rational informed choice here could be called into question) and they knew that the risks were immense, even Tom. But they all went willingly.

After all, the Free Zone's survival was at stake.