why i hate this movie - Goodfellas (1990) Discussion

[–] joeydubh 8 years ago

What a colossal *beep* idiot you are

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I think "colossal *beep* idiot" should have been written in upper case letters!

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[–] kmags84 8 years ago

Assuming you aren't trolling...

1. The Narration is key. Without a doubt, the best in a film... PERIOD. It's our voyage thru Henry Hill, the Ultimate Plot Device.

2. The music literally conveys they emotion of EVERY SINGLE SCENE. Especially the Batts scene and even more so for the final act, we get one or two notes of a song, then it's mixed into another. It's chaos but purposely. Again, the best soundtrack score EVER in a film.

3. Liotta, DeNiro, Pesci, Sorvino, Vincent etc... This was the breakout party. Raging Bull had some of the same actors but the narrative is completely different.

Goodfellas was perfect from start to finish. Not one wasted moment

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[–] MaximRecoil (4269) 6 years ago

"The music literally conveys they emotion of EVERY SINGLE SCENE. Especially the Batts scene and even more so for the final act, we get one or two notes of a song, then it's mixed into another. It's chaos but purposely. Again, the best soundtrack score EVER in a film."

Using preexisting music in a movie is low-rent. It's no accomplishment to peruse the back catalogs of various record companies and find ready-made songs that relate in some way to various movie scenes. It isn't as if there's only one song ever made that would have worked for each given scene; there are tons of them. It's actually harder to get it wrong than to get it "right", because there's no shortage of people who are eager to fanwank an explanation for how a particular song relates to a particular scene, and when a song blatantly doesn't relate to a particular scene, then they can just play the "juxtaposition" card.

On the other hand, it is quite an accomplishment for a composer to create a good, original score for a movie. There's a big difference between what someone like John Williams does and a director pulling some songs from his favorite mixtape.

And for the record, the best preexisting music soundtrack in a movie is the one from Christine (1983), because there was an in-universe reason for those songs, i.e., it was Christine's "voice", i.e., "her" way of communicating with Arnie.

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[–] AMAZINGzingzing 8 years ago

No I'm not trolling
I prefer my crime movies to be more gritty and dark,like donnie brasco and scarface

I'm not the only one who hates the narration
Also they should have replaced liotta with someone tougher

It's hard to believe that skinny weasel was a gangster

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[–] A_Race_Car_in_the_Red 8 years ago

No I'm not trolling
I prefer my crime movies to be more gritty and dark,like donnie brasco and scarface

This is absolutely ridiculous. You're criticizing Goodfellas for not being an entirely different movie. That would be like me saying that Terminator is bad because I prefer movies like Back to the Future.

I'm not the only one who hates the narration

Strange, I've never heard anyone else criticize the narration.

Also they should have replaced liotta with someone tougher

It's hard to believe that skinny weasel was a gangster

Gangsters aren't all ultra-tough. Being a gangster depends largely on who you know and where you grew up, not necessarily the size of your muscles.

 I second that motion... with a vengeance! 

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[–] kmags84 8 years ago

Have you ever saw Henry Hill? Or read up about him? The officer who popped him (Who has a cameo as himself in this film) was SHOCKED to say the least to find out how this one man was connected in so many ways without being a Made Man. Jimmy was different, he earned his keep thru hits early on and then thru earnings. He was a Monster. Henry was just a clever guy. No, he wasn't SMART but he was clever. He had his hands in everything. He also was friendly and that lead to more connections. He was involved in everything. It's why Paulie loved him so much. He was an earner. He wasn't murdering people. The Mob has guys for that. The true story is fascinating. Goodfellas did a great job with the Source Novel. Alot is skipped as is the case with most adaptations of books but the key elements are there. Scorsese used Henry to tell the story of the Mob. From the Glory Days of the 50s to the Drugs and Downfall of the 80s. A guy like Henry doing what he did still amazes me til this day. Donnie Brasco is a great film, another one that showed the day to day workings of the guys not Godfathers. It all started with Goodfellas.

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[–] pjmcgill142 8 years ago

I prefer my crime movies to be more gritty and dark,like donnie brasco and scarface

The opening 3 minutes (of the movie I rented by accident... I was told to get Miller's Crossing.) had me hooked. Couldn't have been darker or more violent...

But at least you've told us why you hate a classic. Thanks.

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[–] GreenGoblinsOckVenom86 8 years ago

"It's hard to believe that skinny weasel was a ganster."
You obviously haven't ever seen what Henry looked like in real life.
Green Goblin is great! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1L4ZuaVvaw

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

This wasn't gritty?

It was probably the most realistic gangster movie ever made. I really hope you're trolling.

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[–] geecee2013 8 years ago

Narration was needed and was great but I can agree the music could of been toned down just a bit. And totally wrong on actors what actor would you of chosen to play Henry? This movie was made in 1990.

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[–] moviefool09 8 years ago

For me, narration only becomes a problem when it distracts from the film itself. In this case, narration is used expertly and actually serves to pull you IN to the story. It's about a man's rise in a shady world and Liotta's narration is very effective, layered with emotion and regret. I found it very poignant, actually, as if he couldn't help what was coming and we were finding this all out, along with him.

I understand the criticism against narration in some films but here, as someone pointed out in this thread, it was used brilliantly.

As for "hating" this movie? It's considered one of the top films of all-time and haters are very much in the distinct minority.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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[–] ebettman-1 8 years ago

Effin A-one of the all TIME Greats! That said, I think Deniro DID Milk the Act a bit AFTER GFF, what with "The Bronx Tale" "Analyze This" etc. Typecast Pesci went on to do "Casino" but whaddya gonna DO about it?? (and he was Great in that, TOO BTW)

It's those OTHER Films, like "Scarface" and even the "Godfather" Trilogy that were overrated. Brando as the Conflicted, Noble Capo rather than a POS? Gimme a Break! And Scarface was just a Glorified Bloodbath from Start to Finish. And Pacino, as Michael Corleone, to his wife, Fay: "We're gonna go into Legitimate Businesses."

What is the WORSE thing the Mob ever DID?! That's RIGHT...taking over Cement, Garbage and some of the Labor Unions! Providing Gambling, Drugs and Women that the Government prohibits is GOOD (at least by Comparison)

And, as for the SOUNDTRACK?? I've always argued that those, many times, MAKE the Movie. And Scorcese is particularly GOOD at That.

It started out with Sinatra, then Doo Wop. "The Lost City of Atlantis" by Donovan Leach was an interesting choice for the Billy Batts Scene. And there was some Creem, Too. "Sunshine of Your Love" was Ingenious (!) played when Henry was getting more out of control and everything was starting to fall apart. "It's Getting near Dawn...the light's shining through"

The only Possible Disappointments??

The Lufthansa Robbery was only Glossed Over in Goodfellas. But there is at least one other movie that goes into detail about it, along with numerous print articles.

Jimmy "The Gent" Burke (aka Jimmy Conway in the movie-they changed the names of All the Guilty except for The Rat) was actually MUCH WORSE than in the movie. About thirteen bodies/year ended up in the trunks of cars at JFK-mostly after being ratted out by the corrupt NYPD Moles working for Jimmy. (The reason those who were "pinched" were mostly getting off easy was because of similarly Dirty Judges and Prosecutors.) Willie DeSimone (the REAL name of "Tommy DeVito") shoved a gun down the throat of an innocent Jewish Boy walking in his hood and shot him for no reason. He told Henry, who was present "I'm a Mean Cat!" And Paul Vario ("Cicero" is the name of a Chicago suburb controlled by Capone in the Old days-lol) also, unsurprisingly, whacked people and roughed up women on the way to being Made. I never read "Wiseguy" or saw the TV series. Perhaps it is more detailed than this movie.

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[–] moviefool09 8 years ago

Ebettman, great post. Agree with everything you said. You obviously have a lot of knowledge about this subject matter.

Agree that it's odd the OP discredits the use of music in the film. As you said, Scorcese is a genius at integrating songs in his films at EXACTLY the right moment. Certainly was the case here. It doesn't get much better than the opening ominous notes of "Sunshine of Your Love" as the shot pulls in to a smirking DeNiro, in the scene before he decides to kill Morrie (it may have crystalized in that expertly crafted moment we see).

I've also heard, as you, that the brutality was MUCH worse in real life and Scorcese actually softened it in the film. For me, the tension leading up to the violence is much harder to take (the anger building in Tommy before the shooting of Spider, the 'shinebox' scene, and even the 'Why am I funny?'-perhaps the most tense scene in the film!).

You make good points about the softening of mob characters in other films (Brando in the Godfather, though one of the best films ever). Godfather depicts some of those characters in almost a romantic light. Nothing romantic about these guys in Goodfellas. Scorcese shows them as brutal, dark people.

Anyone who "hates" this movie? I would seriously question their taste in film. It's difficult to understand how anyone could not view this film as a masterpiece, so you can imagine what we think of those who hate this film.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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[–] ebettman-1 8 years ago

Yes, The Original Godfather, while written by Puzo, was Shakespeareian in it's Scope. (II wasn't Bad, Either-and the Mad Magazine parody thereof was Hysterical! I can give you some of the Funniest Excerpts)

Another Factoid: The Prison Scene. They showed the Veal Scalopini and the Lobster-but it was Much more Egregious than THAT! They didn't even stay within the walls of Club Fed, but in a building Off Campus. And they were allowed to "Find God" on "Religious Retreats" which in reality consisted of romping in the Hay with their wives and Gommorres (?sp) at Atlantic City Hotels(!) DeSimone was said to have whacked two men during an earlier imprisonment. Hill and Burke, BTW, could NOT have been "Made" as they were not 100% Ethnic Italian.

As far as Voice Overs, do NOT discount the Karen Hill ones, either, although they were fewer in number. "When he gave me the Gun to hide, it turned me On." "They All were named Peter and Paul, and they all had Daughters named Marie." At the Hostess party something about the women looked abused and were on Valium or something. Her narrative about how she handled cops looking for Contraband in her home "I offered them a cup of coffee." and her rationalizations, like "I liked all the Extras. And OUR men didn't wait for handouts like pigeons, They went out and Hustled for it!"

There are many movies of this Genre that I have Not seen, such as "Donnie Brasco." In real life, I worked in the Health Field in North Jersey. The Latino Boss wanted me to be a partner in his Business Venture, which was dictating notes on Car Accident Victims and sending them to the Chiropractor, and a certain Gentleman's Radiology Center for the MRI. I didn't go along because it wasn't a good Deal for me anyhow. A few years later they ALL got in trouble (but No prison sentences.) One partner was a corrupt cop, who was the Muscle for an internet Bookmaker. Another guy went on to own an Italian Restaurant on the Shore, until "the pipes froze and burst." Well-at least he did not put Kerosene-soaked newspapers in the rafters and light them-LOL. He once told the Boss "If anyone touches you-don't WORRY-I'll KILL 'em!" On hearing this, (and seeing the bodyguards employed by the MRI owner, I DID worry.) My Boss actually fought the Radiology Suite owner off-I guess he was charging too much street tax.

Did I mention that the accidents were all Staged??
And that the amount of money stolen probably exceeded The Lufthansa Heist??

If I told you more, I'd have to Kill you (-;

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[–] moviefool09 8 years ago

WOW....I actually find your story more fascinating than Goodfellas....very cool stuff. 😃 I'm sure there is/was a lot of corruption when it came to similar fields in that area. Goodfellas is just one. I'm sure the powers-that-be infiltrated all kinds of industry.

Agreed on the Karen Hill voice-overs. Actually a great idea to utilize her, so not EVERYTHING is from Henry's perspective. The OP casually didn't credit this innovative idea either.

Thanks for the info on the prison scene...I am sure they had it VERY easy.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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[–] ebettman-1 8 years ago

Thanx...You have encouraged me. I MAY yet write a Scorcese movie script, changing the names-as Usual-to protect the Guilty.

The same Crew had already gotten in trouble for trying to form their own HMO-called-I'm NOT Kidding-"Tricon" which would cover (probably mostly scam) Teamsters employees. The Crooked Cop did eight years for stabbing some rube to avenge him not paying his debt to the Bookmaker. SO...after he's released what does he DO? Threaten somebody ELSE. He got off lightly(!) for that by pleading guilty to a separate misdemeanor. He is said to have bragged about busting open heads "like a pumpkin."

But-a REAL Interesting Fact is that two guys from the same practice DID go to Prison-one for a LONG Time! A Cardiologist (who used to be a Brilliant Scientist) a little Einstein-and a Genuinely nice Guy got sent up for ordering too many tests.

And a Hispanic Physician-who Seemed clean and also a nice guy, got a lesser sentence for laboratory kickbacks. They were No Longer associated with the practice when he got pinched.

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[–] moviefool09 8 years ago

I'd definitely write a script if I were you....send it off!!!

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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[–] ebettman-1 8 years ago

OH...and the Weirdest Thing of ALL...

The Guy who owned the Imaging Center??...

HE now works for FEMA!!

Looking him up-he seems to have No arrests and No Convictions, but he struck me as the Ultimate Private Sector Man!

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[–] nilbog44 8 years ago

dumbest comment on the internet

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[–] moviefool09 8 years ago

What's the dumbest comment?

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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[–] nilbog44 7 years ago

the reasons he hated goodfellas

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[–] A_Race_Car_in_the_Red 8 years ago

Reasons why I hate your post,

1. The narration is not too much. You would not have the same understanding of the movie had certain aspects not been explained.

2. The soundtrack was appropriate for when the movie takes place, 50s-early80s. The scene where the nice music is played over Billy Batts getting *beep* up is called juxtaposition, dumbass. How did you ever get to this point in your life without learning about juxtaposition?

3. Maybe Marty picked the cast because he knew they could preform well, rather than trying new people for no reason other than variety... Notice how he tends to work with the same actors as much as possible?

 I second that motion... with a vengeance! 

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[–] moviefool09 8 years ago

3. Maybe Marty picked the cast because he knew they could preform well, rather than trying new people for no reason other than variety... Notice how he tends to work with the same actors as much as possible?

And certainly, Scorcese is not the only director who has tended in the past to work with the same cast. How about Woody Allen or David O. Russell? They tend to work with the same folks again and again and no one slams them.

Seems the OP just has an ax to grind, nothing more.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

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[–] A_Race_Car_in_the_Red 8 years ago

Agreed. Looking through the op's post history, they have criticized every conceivable aspect of the film from the title to Ray Liotta's physical stature. The Op definitely has some kind of vendetta against the film.

 I second that motion... with a vengeance! 

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[–] AMAZINGzingzing 8 years ago

I didn't say it was a crap movie
Just overrated compared to godfather,scarface and donnie b

My main problem is the narration and casting,sorvino and Vincent plays the same part in every movie

It's like that fat loser seth rogen always playing the dumb stoner

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[–] IcySpoon 8 years ago

You prefaced your comment with, "reasons why I HATE Goodfellas". Hate is a strong, inflammatory word that's going to provoke people-which is what you intended. Now it appears you are backtracking because so many people have vehemently disagreed with you.

As far as typecasting, this film came out in 1990-If you look up their credits under IMDB, Sorvino as well as many of the supporting cast played a wide variety of roles before participating in this film. I'd venture to say a lot of the supporting actors in this film were type-cast AFTER participating in, "Goodfellas".

You do realize this film is 26 years old?.....

"Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it." Norman Maclean

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[–] chamohlamb 8 years ago

You said you hated the movie. Don't go back on your opinion now.

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[–] benjaminlatta 8 years ago

I agree with this user, though I might tone down my comments a bit. I thought it was a good movie, but that it felt like a movie trying to be a mafia movie. There seemed to be a few too many cliches, including the casting, and I also didn't love the soundtrack/narration.

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[–] AMAZINGzingzing 8 years ago

finally someone who agrees with me
this movie isnt *beep* it is watchable but very predictable and cheesy
certainly overrated,its like a parody of italian american mobster movies
donnie brasco was a million times better

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[–] tb-sch 8 years ago

Don't watch Casino then...

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