MovieChat Forums > Dances with Wolves (1990) Discussion > It has to be said, Goodfellas won the te...

It has to be said, Goodfellas won the test of time presently, no doubt

posted 13 years ago by Crisitunity
71 replies | jump to latest

even if you think dances is the better movie, there's no denying that goodfellas is seen as the better film today and that it was snubbed at the oscars. again,that could change in 50 years, but right now, it's delusional to think otherwise.
Like for instance, on parks and recreation, one of the guys is made fun of for liking dances with wolves because it's seen as LAME. absolutely no one thinks that of goodfellas and if you do you're making fun of yourself more than anyone could, truthfully.

as i said before, things change and predicting the canon of classic cinema decades down the line is harder than it looks, so i'm not even saying that dances with wolves won't be rediscovered as a great and goodfellas won't be seen as relatively mediocre (but i'm also not saying that) however the people here saying dances with wolves is seen as the superior movie nowadays, you really need a reality check...

I know that I shall meet my fate, somewhere among the clouds above

[–] sweetmelody 13 years ago

What is Parks and Recreation and why should I care? It's "seen as lame" by a writer of some obscure indie film? Who gives a damn?

[–] Crisitunity 13 years ago

you pretty much proved how out of touch and delusional dances with wolves fans are

I know that I shall meet my fate, somewhere among the clouds above

[–] one189teen50five 13 years ago

And that is the pot calling the kettle black. In no way are DWW fooled or delusional. We have the facts on our side...DWW won the awards. PERIOD. You can't change the outcome. Deal with it.

[–] Crisitunity 13 years ago

you don't get the logic though, by saying that you claiming that every movie that won the oscar is the best movie, no matter what, which goes against the majority today, that says, 'the oscars mess things up sometimes' like shakespeare in love over saving private ryan? are you kidding me?

you're misinterpreting my post as an insult to dww, it's not. i'm just saying that most dww fans seem to think that it was right that they won they oscar, like it was an absolute truth and i'm saying that in 2011, those fans are a severe minority compared to the rest of film critics/fans right or wrong.

I know that I shall meet my fate, somewhere among the clouds above

[–] one189teen50five 13 years ago

Where is your proof of that? If DWW was so inferior to GF then it would have lost all the awards it was up for. Don't forget it swept the Golden Globes too. I like Martin Scorcese. I think he really deserved the Oscar he finally got, but losing on GF was the way it was meant to be. As I understand the voting, directors vote for directors, actors for actors, etc. It's not the fault of Kevin Costner or his fans. The majority of the votes went for DWW. I think the reason was because of its western genre. A good western hadn't been honored in a very long time, but movies such as the Godfather etc. had been. Marlon Brando snubbed his Godfather Oscar. Maybe that was the catalyst for other movies in the mobster genre. Who knows? I am guessing Crash was kind of in the genre but I don't know. Give DWW the honors it won and did deserve. The people who make the movies themselves decided. It's not like the People's Choice awards. Did you gripe this much when Clint Eastwood won for Forgiven? Guess not since Martin wasn't up for anything I guess.

[–] Crisitunity 13 years ago

wow you're still not getting what i'm saying; you're taking it too personally.

I know that I shall meet my fate, somewhere among the clouds above

[–] negrinpeace 10 years ago

I think we all can have a respectful argument about which movie do we consider to be better. But I don't agree that we should consider the academy awards like the universal truth about films. It is fair to say that a film that won the Oscar probably shouldn't.

[–] one189teen50five 10 years ago

Every year some movie is going to be considered top notch to get all the gold. It's unfair for GF whiners to continue after all these many years! Kevin Costner showed his skill for telling a very heartwarming tale on a subject buried by science fiction, mobster bloody killings, etc. DO NOT DIMINISH this accomplishment by any means. DANCES WITH WOLVES, WINNER OF SEVEN ACADEMY AWARDS, INCLUDING BEST PICTURE AND BEST DIRECTOR...It's in the archives. Can't be changed.

[–] negrinpeace 10 years ago

You are correct. But this perspective of greatness changes trough the years. What we consider a "top notch" film in the time of its release maybe hasn't age that good or viceversa. What I'm trying to tell you is that greatness it's not defined by the number of Oscars a film earns in it's time but by the transcendence that it has trough time and years. It is fair to you to say that you prefer Dances with wolves over Goodfellas like it is fair for me and others to say that Goodfellas it is the better film. And I like them both. What I don't think is fair is that the only argument to defend a movie is the number of Oscar it gets.

[–] upside_down_frown 9 years ago

It is fair to you to say that you prefer Dances with wolves over Goodfellas like it is fair for me and others to say that Goodfellas it is the better film.

 So it's 'prefer' for them but a statement of fact for you? Nice one. That's totally 'fair'. You can admit it is a personal opinion. You may base it on stronger criteria than just 'won all the Oscars', but still...

[–] negrinpeace 9 years ago

Well...sorry for that "statement".
My point was to say that there is a a majority who thinks Goodfellas is the better film (me included). Also an important part of my point wich you didn't mention in your post is that there are more and most important criteria to define (if that´s possible) the greatness of a film (popularity included) than the freakin´oscars.
For me in order to have a real and honest argument about a film or a couple of a films we should forget how many oscars they won, cause if we dont´t do that we are losing sensiblity about film apretiation and we are lettin'g that a bunch of old white people tell us which films are better.

[–] upside_down_frown 9 years ago

In fact I did mention that there were more criteria than just winning oscars. It's right here:

You may base it on stronger criteria than just 'won all the Oscars'

And you didn't say that you and many others thought it was a better film, you just said it IS a better film. I suppose you could argue that any comment on a movie's quality can be assumed to be an opinion in the context of a discussion, but it stinks of hypocrisy when you seem to claim that others have opinions while you have TrueFacts(TM) (which are also just opinions). I'll admit that 'oscar = good movie' guy is a bit silly, but my keyboard-warrior actions are focused on pointing out amusing hypocrisy today .

As an aside, I actually agree that you shouldn't use oscar status as a benchmark for movie quality. But even using other things to back up your argument that one film is better than another still boils down to an opinion. All your criteria mean nothing if you don't like a film. The quality of dialogue/narrative strength/relevance throughout time/whatever mean *beep* to me if I don't like watching it. Therefore it is not a good movie - for me. That doesn't alter the viewing experience or validity of the movie for anyone else.

Anyway, I am off; there are many other 18 month old posts I could be commenting on pedantically.

[–] dbrockskk1 11 years ago

well said. Looks like the OP just wants to see his/her name in print.

suzycreamcheese RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008

[–] one189teen50five 11 years ago

What GF idolaters don't understand is that DWW is a western. GF is just a mobster movie. Not the same in any way, shape, or form! The length of the movies are not the same. When DWW is shown on tv or whatever, it denotes a special occasion unlike GF that is short enough to fill a measley two hour spot. These two need to stop being compared. There is no comparison whatsoever.

[–] one189teen50five 13 years ago

Ha ha ha ha...you can NEVER change the Oscar results. NEVER. Goodfellas should've been called Badboys or something else stupid. It is so just a mobster movie with no class, a bunch of hoods, vulgar language...blah blah blah. It will never have the class and beauty of DWW...no matter how much you want it to.

[–] mradam-3 13 years ago

On Parks and Recreation? ON PARKS AND RECREATION?! Who gives a shït about Parks and Recreation??

No wonder your opinion is wrong.

They were both great pictures, and they are both great pictures today.

[–] shireythehorrible 13 years ago

This is a tiring argument. Why can't someone enjoy both? I think it's pathetic for people to get so worked up over an award for a project they had no association with. I doubt Scorcese, DeNiro, or Pesci lament the decision as much as you do.

[–] chadsarah 11 years ago

I am a fan of them both. Both films are regarded as classics. Both were selected by AFI in the 100 greatest films list. I personally liked DWW more, so what . . . that is my subjective opinion. DWW is a grand sweeping epic and GF is a mobster film with a great anti-hero. I like films like DWW more than GF. It doesn't make me delusional. Guess what? I think Shakespeare In Love is superior to Saving Private Ryan, so that makes me crazy? No, it's my opinion and it just so happens that my opinion matched others during that time. True, today there is a viewpoint that GF and Saving Private Ryan were snubbed. It's also possible that it's hipper to praise the deserving film that didn't win instead of the one that did. If GF had won, it's possible the Parks and Recreation joke would have been reversed. It's the whole "grass is always greener" concept. When two great films are nominated the same year, the one that loses will always find sympathy. The truth is even history won't tell us which is better because there's no such thing as "better". It's art and art is and will always be a subjective experience.

[–] Phydeaux50 13 years ago

One of Costner's very good friends, Oscar, disagrees with you.

In fact, the only people that actually remember that there ever was a movie called Goodfellas are DWW fans, and only because delusional individuals who are mostly making up that there was ever a movie called Goodfellas keep on posting delusional comments about this practically non-existent movie being somehow better, either then or now or next Thursday. I guess you must be one of the deluded, because you insist on backing losers that don't even mostly exist except when delusional, loser-backing individuals post on this board. You'll never see how logical my reply is because you believe that Goodfellas logically exists and is better than DWW, when anyone who has the sense to see it knows that it almost practically doesn't even exist unless someone mentions it who is delusional and illogical when they do. You see how personally you've taken this? Probably not, as you'd be logically non-delusional if you did.

I'm glad you brought this up, as it all needs to be said over and over and over again lest it cease to exist and become some sort of delusional reality for losers, like Goodfellas. Which doesn't exist, mostly. That's what Oscar said, and he's never been wrong except when some delusional movie that I don't like wins, and even then not really.

My god, I actually wasted my time writing this. But don't pity me- pity yourself for having read this far. You need it more than I. I'm still burning on the pity I feel for delusional fans of Goodfe... (brain melts, oozes from ears, author doesn't realise).

[–] skizixson 13 years ago

Also, for those that are denying that goodfellas is viewed as the better and more memorable movie today... please tell me which movie is displayed on TV every other week? Lol... regardless of whatever delusions you think "goodfellas fans" have... even though i am not one... i simply enjoy the movie for what it is, as i do DWW... goodfellas is remembered and regarded as a more memorable film without a doubt. There are so many goodfellas quotes that are now practically verbatim in society nowadays... yet DWW has none.

[–] one189teen50five 13 years ago

The difference is DWW is a longer movie. It is an epic. GF is shoved up people's noses because they can show a little two hour drivel more than a classic three hour plus masterpiece. There's your answer but it never ever makes GF better in any way over DWW.

[–] one189teen50five 13 years ago

As for GF quotes, that is nonsense. Regarding a mobster movie that drips pure evil and blood as a "more memorable" film is garbage and not the least true. DWW was honored for many reasons: great story, the forgotten western revived by a great actor/director, authentic Native Americans cast in the roles and not some kind of costumed Indians a la Bonanza tv series. They spoke the authentic language of the Lakota Sioux. They ACTUALLY had a buffalo HUNT the way the Sioux would have hunted. The village, the costumes, everything was like you were transported back to that time! Now that IS MEMORABLE. That and much more.

[–] skizixson 13 years ago

Yeah... regardless if you are a fan of DWW or not... there should really be no argument between Goodfellas and DWW for what the superior movie is... both in the opinion of the general public, the "moviebuff community", and between which has withstood the test of time. Goodfellas was definitely the best movie of 1990... but to be fair, it wasn't at all the first time the best film didn't win, and certainly wasn't the last.

[–] Darth_Qaidous 13 years ago

Really doesn't make sense to try to compare either film to each other. Unless you think they are somehow in the same genre of film. Both films stand the test of time and are great for what they are. I love them both. It's like asking which is better Star Wars or The Last of the Mohicans--they can't be compared because they are nothing alike other than that they are great films.

[–] IkuharaKunihiko 13 years ago

please tell me which movie is displayed on TV every other week? LoL

Maybe Goodfellas is shown more often on TV, but I don't care to watch it. I've seen the film only twice in my life and, while I agree it is competent and strong, do not have the urge to see it again anytime soon. It was basically a movie about evil people and therefor it is difficult to care for the characters.

On the other hand, I own DWW and watch it whenever I want, even when it's not on TV. Seen it several times in its 4-hour length and still enjoy it 'til this day. You simply care for the characters and care for the sense of a lost culture.

[–] jgarrick 12 years ago

Maybe this argument can die in another 21 years.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] one189teen50five 12 years ago

Everything you GF whiners cry about is one thing and one thing only:
IRRELEVENT

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] one189teen50five 12 years ago

Believe what you want. I'm so bored with you kind of complainers. So why don't you campaign and try to steal the honors away? Maybe you'd feel better by handling it the mobster way. Take it on yourself to go blow away every last Academy voter who said DWW was the best movie and so on. See how ridiculous you all sound? Why keep harping on the subject forever? Let it go. I know a tally recall! Nope that wouldn't work because the votes said DANCES WITH WOLVES BEST PICTURE AND KEVIN COSTNER BEST DIRECTOR AND FIVE OTHER WINS. It's a lock. Let it go.

[–] Torque1337 12 years ago

Hold on one second.. Goodfellas is about a crime families demise. Dances with Wolves is about an US soldier connecting with the Natives...

Holy jumping jesus, I cant even begin to understand WHY you guys are comparing these two films.. They have NOTHING in common.. Grow up kids, go cry to your mom if your that disappointed that Goodfellas didnt win.. Goodfellas is a great movie, Dances with Wolves is a great movie..

End of debate kids.