buried alive?
Has it ever been confirmed in an interview or commentary? What if Raymond just buried Rex to eliminate any chance of him ever being caught? I wonder because Raymond tested to see if screaming could be heard on his property which leads me to believe he intended to keep Saskia alive while he raped and/or tortured her.
That's a very interesting question... something to think about! There probably is no correct interpretation, but yours seems logical.
shareCallahan09 replied Oct 30, 2015
That's a very interesting question... something to think about! There probably is no correct interpretation, but yours seems logical.
Sorry, I didn't see this missing scene you must have somehow viewed. I did not see Saskia buried alive. Didn't even see her dead body in a coffin.
Now here is why it's open to interpretation. If he really did bury Saskia alive, then he did the most horrible thing he could think of. He's done. He would have no need to do the same thing to a second person. Now it's possible he did something ELSE to Saskia and then he realized there is something WORSE he could do to the next person.
Having said that, here's why I think she WAS buried alive. He tested whether screams could be heard from his property. Meaning he intended to bring her to his house. Obviously, this wouldn't be to keep her tied up in the basement because his family would hear. Logically, he must have brought her to his property for a short time. Burying her alive would be a short time (I assume when the family wasn't home) and would result in her screaming.
Perhaps doing the worst possible thing to someone as he mentions isn't to kill her, but to in fact to bury her alive.
shareThis is what I was coming here to ask, the wife of Ray also says that he was spending a lot of time travelling up there so at that stage of the film I assumed that he was keeping her captive, it would be an even more shocking ending if it was revealed that Saskia was still alive and poor Rex died thinking differently
sharei am wondering if some of you guys were half asleep, while watching. rex was not involved in rays plan until he put up thise flyers. this is not "saw".
share[deleted]
I think Saskia was buried alive in the garden, which is why he was checking no one would hear her through the ground when she woke up. I also wonder if the two trees we see Raymond's wife watering at the very end aren't in fact growing above the two coffins...
share"buried alive? "
yes. ray was a man of his word. a maniac, but a truthful maniac.
"I wonder because Raymond tested to see if screaming could be heard on his property which leads me to believe he intended to keep Saskia alive while he raped and/or tortured her."
yeeah, and i wonder if ray didn't force saskia to sing in his death metal band and therefore did the scream test.
c'mon, man. did you actually watch the film?
A little late, but I think there may be some truth in the idea that Raymond did not. This is a very minor clue, but earlier in the film, he says to Rex,"But murder is not what I consider to be the most evil thing one can do...", or something to that effect. He does not elaborate on that sentence for the rest of the film.
To me, this opened the possibility that this was the worst thing he could do. Kidnap a man's girlfriend, basically torture him for three years, and eventually murder him as well. And at the end, as a final twist of the knife, he kills him in one of the worst ways possible, burying him alive. And as a final final twist of the knife, Rex never truly figures out what happens to Saskia. Raymond did not bury her alive. Or, if he did, he did much worse things to her first. Rex dies with no real closure. I think that the fact that he would never know this wouldn't really matter to Raymond. Remember this was in a sick way Raymond's intellectual exercise. Almost a scientific experiment. The people involved are nothing more than elements to be combined and separated, they are to him inanimate. Their own feelings don't matter, it's what Raymond does to them that does. This was all in order for Raymond to dissect whether he was truly evil, and Rex coming to that conclusion didn't matter to him, merely the fact that he discovered his own capability of doing it.
Just a thought, tell me what you all think of this theory.
"A little late, but I think there may be some truth in the idea that Raymond did not. This is a very minor clue, but earlier in the film, he says to Rex,, or something to that effect. He does not elaborate on that sentence for the rest of the film. "
what he meant was to bury someone alive in his own backyard. it is way worse than simply killing someone.
"To me, this opened the possibility that this was the worst thing he could do. Kidnap a man's girlfriend, basically torture him for three years, and eventually murder him as well."
it might have been a while, since you saw the film, but it becomes pretty clear that rex's obsession was not part of rays plan. he becomes part of it, when he started to "fascinate" ray, as ray states himself.
"And as a final final twist of the knife, Rex never truly figures out what happens to Saskia. Raymond did not bury her alive."
nonsense. how would that even make sense?
"Or, if he did, he did much worse things to her first."
i think you are mistaking this film as a horror film, which it isn't. he could have also tortured her for weeks and then fed them to his dog, piece by piece, BUT there is not indication of that and in the context and philosophy of the film that does not make sense.
"I think that the fact that he would never know this wouldn't really matter to Raymond."
rex was about to die in 2 minutes. there is no "never knowing".
also, it can not get any more bitter than it already did. no torture or rape or anything else in the world can make rex's fate more bitter. he lost his love and his obsession of having to know her fate, destroyed every part of his life and as a "final turn of the knife", as you put it, it lead tp him losing his life in the most horrid fashion.
"Remember this was in a sick way Raymond's intellectual exercise. Almost a scientific experiment."
i am sorry, but i think you misunderstood what ray was going for. as i said, he is not jigsaw, this is not saw.
"The people involved are nothing more than elements to be combined and separated, they are to him inanimate. Their own feelings don't matter, it's what Raymond does to them that does. This was all in order for Raymond to dissect whether he was truly evil, and Rex coming to that conclusion didn't matter to him, merely the fact that he discovered his own capability of doing it. "
his whole plan was to kidnap one women and bury her alive. he did not care who, just as long as it works and can get away with it. his plan could not have involved rex, because it was an accident that he ended up his girl in particular.
[deleted]
indifference......ok... raymond wasn't a bystander he literally buried them both alive, the participation was very much active. how can you stray so far from the point?
share[deleted]
well okay, i suppose that's interesting to consider if you want to take the film to places it didn't actually go, and didn't need to at that
share[deleted]
the 1 hour 45 minute 1988 film itself didn't go where you've taken it. it's fine if you want to think more deeply into it but it wasn't in the film. feel free to link me to any interviews i might find illuminating.
do you really have a phd?
[deleted]
For someone with an PhD in psych you should realy realize the irony of your own anal retentiveness on the previous pioint '1.' , namely being butthurt about a comment on this board.
For someone with such credentials in psych, it's surprising how much your ego is slighted by an insignificant message board post on a film forum.
shareYou seem wedded to the one theory, but Faulknerfan makes the good point that a far worse thing to do (beyond simply suffocating someone) is to promise them you'll end their gnawing suffering, by showing what happened to their loved one, and then not do so. But to simply kill them, ensuring that they'll die not knowing.
That may not have been the director's intent, but it would make for a far more powerful film if we somehow knew that the sacrifice of the protagonist was all for nothing, and that he died not knowing.
I think it's more powerful having Rex find inner peace while inside a box in the earth, that irony is far more interesting than some relentlessly bleak, generic horror ending which disregards the whole golden-egg-destiny theme of the film.
Sorry to post this so late, but I'm just catching this thread now.
There is in fact one more clue regarding what Raymond believes is 'the worst thing he can do'. Remember when he and Rex go through the toll booth together, before Rex drinks the coffee? The gendarme asks Raymond why he isn't wearing his seatbelt, and Raymond hands him some papers along with the explanation: "I have a dispensation. I'm claustrophobic."
It feels like a throwaway scene, but I think it's the key to Raymond's motivation. And a more definitive answer to your question. He buried her alive because it is the worst thing he -- a claustrophobe -- could think to do to another human being.
Very good point, I actually forgot that, even though I thought about it when it happened in the film (the scene with the officer)
shareIt feels like a throwaway scene, but I think it's the key to Raymond's motivation. And a more definitive answer to your question. He buried her alive because it is the worst thing he -- a claustrophobe -- could think to do to another human being.
Posted Jun 13, 2015 by bluntz_b
Was Saskia really...
buried alive?
Has it ever been confirmed in an interview or commentary? What if Raymond just buried Rex to eliminate any chance of him ever being caught? I wonder because Raymond tested to see if screaming could be heard on his property which leads me to believe he intended to keep Saskia alive while he raped and/or tortured her.
Further support for the conclusion that Raymond buried Saskia alive is when he is calculating the timing, he satisfactorily concludes that from the time he renders his victim unconscious, including the time it would take to drive to the villa, he would have 3 to 4 minutes. Just enough time.
Just enough time to do what? To get his victim in the waiting coffin and sufficiently buried that there would be no escape.
Or just enough time to get her away from the crime scene to tie her up.
I'm not going to say what is the correct interpretation, but Raymond is not a reliable character or source of information. There is no reason that he would not be lying to Rex, or even to himself. The guy is a sociopath and he is, I assume because he has been able to hide this side of his personality, very intelligent and a very good manipulator.
He might say that those things are his reason for killing Saskia, but when he rescues the little girl it doesn't really give him any satisfaction, theres a bit of a smile when he sees that drowning doll.
I think that this hints at what he enjoys: saving ungrateful little children, not so much, but he does get a kick out of killing.
Also, I think killing Rex is something he really wants to do. He is bothered by those posters and that he doesn't want to stop looking for her, when he finally approaches him, he does so without warning, throwing him off, giving him a short windows of time to make his decisions, constantly talks as if he is doing him a favor, and that little scene when they talk about names, and Rex hides his smile. I think Raymond's little smile probably means: 'I got him now'.
He also leaves the coffee-thermos on the hood of the car. I think he really, really, really wants him to drink that coffee, because it will be risky and a really big headache to have to try and kill him in public at a gas-station.
Anyways, that's what I have been thinking.
There is no reason to believe Raymond at any point.
The correct interpretation is exactly what the film makes clear - that Raymond buried Saskia alive, which is the worst fate he, a claustrophobe, could imagine. Rex’s obsession to know what happened to Saskia then prompts him to craft the same fate for her lover. The two are now ‘reunited’ as the two golden eggs in dead space, as their dreams foretold.
It’s clear, simple and unambiguous.
Yes, that’s it
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