MovieChat Forums > Hamburger Hill (1987) Discussion > The Best Vietnam War Film Yet!

The Best Vietnam War Film Yet!


The film Hamburger Hill was the best Vietnam War film of it's generation. It's historical significance, gritty realism and coverage of the role of the African American as well as the Combat Medic were all that was needed to put it on top when it's compared it's rivals, Platoon and Full Metal Jacket.

Unlike Platoon, Hamburger Hill was a real event that took place in May of 1969. What historians won't tell you is that The historical significance of this battle was that the U.S. Army basically destroyed an entire NVA regiment on that hill. Sure the 101st Airborne took heavy losses, but the NVA lost 10 times as many soldiers in that battle. This is the same case whenit came to the war at large. The U.S won battle after battle in Vietnam, but the victories were perceived as losses because Americans lost lives.

I will grant the fact that Full Metal Jacket covers another side of the war when it goes urban in the city of Hue during the Tet Offensive, but it is from a surreal perspective that is delivered from one man's point of view. Platoon's main character took the route of the Hero's journey as well. From a character development standpoint, those two films do well in developing character with thier heroes philosophical voiceovers, however Hamburger Hill takes a whole squad of fresh green recruits and places them into a hell that has already been developed by the film's opening battle sequence. In the end, the Hero is the entire squad of men, with diverse ideals and backgrounds. They are separate in thier beliefs, race, economics and morality, but as a group, they are one character. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

From a realists perspective, we can see John Irwin's willingness to explore blood and guts from the gate. Chaos erupts amidst radio traffic in the high grass of the Ashau Valley. An Airborne soldier is blown from his feet and lands 20 feet away, in front of his fellow squad member. His intestines shudder and shimmer in the blazing hot sun while his comrade, Motown calls for a Medic. Mowtown throws a grenade in the direction of the enemy and puts out disciplined fire for the coverage of his flank. This is War.

There are anumber of scenes that are technically stunning and highlighted by the textbook war injuries. The Exploding head of the NVA soldier shot with an M60 later in the film was masterful and memorable. The pyrotechnics are outstanding as well. There is one scene that shows the trees being splintered by exploding claymore mines that have been placed in the trees. A few soldiers disappear into mist as they are ripped apart by the explosions. Nothing like this had ever been seen before. Let's remember that this film is from 1987, 10 years before the CGI graphics that made the Normandy invasion look so awesome when Spielberg covered WWII in "Saving Private Ryan" in 1998. This battle was fought in the daylight. Irwin takes full advantage of the visual opportunity and brings it home with flair. He gives great respect to the NVA soldiers who give just as good as they get. You can only imagine thier resolve to remain on that hill and die in place as they are overrun by strong, well equipped and atheletic corn-fed young men who are backed by superior firepower.

In FMJ, the African Americans are just an after thought. Private Snowball is the only black to be remembered in the Garrison sequence, and 8-ball is just memorable enough to take the racist rumblings of Animal Mother and still like him. (why?) In Platoon, the majority of the blacks are portrayed as cowards in the end. One runs from the enemy and knocks himself out by running into a tree. Another stabs himself in the leg so he can get out of the fight. Another is a dope feind and finally, Big Harold, gets wounded, Manny get's killed early and King, gets out of the fight by getting an early out by mistake. Hardly the contribution that African American Soldiers put forth in the war. In Hamburger Hill, the black men are Brave, mostly sober, squared away and intellectually stimulating. There is a sense of unity among these men that the white soldiers can't touch. The "Brother Dap" which is a form of rythmic handshake is displayed in the movie. Black opinions are strong and very much on point with what black soldiers believed during the turbulent civil rights era. These opinions go largely uncovered in the other two films.


No other film has ever given the combat medic such a coveted place in an infantry based film. In Platoon the Medic is inept. He fails the test early by reversing the steps on a sucking chest wound. (The plastic goes under the bandage to seal the wound, not the other way around. At the end, he falls apart because he has too many casualties. (can't say I blame him though.) He has such a small role written for the effect that says "yeah we had medics" that when he get's blown away, we don't really care. The same goes with Doc J in Full metal Jacket. He is sacrificed, which is totally unrealistic. Losing your Medic is like losing your queen on the chess board. He did do an excellent LBJ impersonation though.


In Hamburger Hill, Cortney B. Vance is the one who stands out in a group of outstanding actors. He takes on the role of Doc Johnson with the passion of a real Combat Medic. The technique by which he tends to his men is straight out of the 91B manual. I was amazed to see at the end of the credits that the Academy of Health Sciences at Ft. Sam Houston was involved in advising Vance. He was incredibly realistic. He must have gone to Medic School. His character delivers a highly knowledgable, fiesty performance. Emotionally, he is realistic as the warrior/healer who will punch you in the mouth with one hand and then save your life with the other. He serves as one of the major forces in the film to galvanize the troops to the final victory. I hope to see Mr. Vance take on another role that involves such Emotion. What Hamburger Hill shows, is the fact that Medics are highly respected and very much an important part of an infantry unit. That's not something that most people know.

My 12 year experience in the Infantry and my short but very real experience in War (G-1) as a combat medic was highlighted by seeing this film. I was later able to use it as a tool to show others a way to see into a segment of life that many will never see in real life. No War film will ever be 100% real. You'll never smell the cordite or taste the blood of your comrades in the mist. You'll never feel the absolute terror that triggers your desire to flee as you fight it and stand fast out of duty, honor and respect for friends that you may have been aquinted with but for only a moment. Some that you may never see again, even if you live. War is truly hell. I would never trade the experience for anything though. Hamburger Hill get's you as close as you wanna get.

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uhh...why did u type all this s h i t? no one reads messages this long..except maybe you

"I'll have the cleavage....er, The Special." - Barf, Spaceballs

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Its not long and its a good post.

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This post was written for those with true understanding of Film. IE Character Development, Story, Camera work, Sound lighting, Historical significance etc. I am not suprised that you didn't quite get it. And that's okay. It's for the educated film enthusiast. Thanks for your support 112524!

AONWEST

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[deleted]

Learn how to spell before you go thrashing about. Idiot.

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I'm sorry, but I'm voting Rescue Dawn as the numero uno.

On the shortlist:

1. The Deer Hunter
2. Platoon
3. Apocalypse Now

I'm not sure though, but does Born on the Fourth of July count? If it does, it makes the list too.

I own Hamburger Hill, but haven't yet watched it, though I will say that I'm excited to see it and from the length of the original post, I don't doubt that it's at least got some merit.

AdamG

I don't wanna be a product of my environment.

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Apocalypse Now, The Deer Hunter, Platoon, and Full Metal Jacket blow this movie out of the water

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No, they don't...this is much more realistic. Those other movies were made to appeal more to an audience.

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This would be the worst case scenario for me.

I mean, you have to hike up a hill 937 feet high, while the Monsoon rains wash you back down. THAT PART WAS EVIDENT! THAT PART WAS REAL! And you know there were more than a few jammed M16s with all that mud and water. Then you have the enemy shooting down on top of you. I could be wrong, but I always thought that the person shooting down hill has the advantage over someone shooting up it.

Feel free to walk through a field of trees that have 40lb Claymore mines growing out of them.

Platoon, Apocalypse Now, The Deer Hunter, etc. These are entertaining movies. Hamburger Hill is pure hardcore.

Like AONWEST's post suggests, this is The Best Vietnam War Film Yet!

you were born a pig farmer.
you'll always BE a pig farmer.
And now, you will DIE a pig farmer.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Totally agree, they are 4 brilliant movies. The acting and dialogue in HH is so bad that even the realistic fighting scenes can't save it.

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Insane, those are politicized anti war films to trash our soldiers or just the war at large. This is superior to all.

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He certainly didn't type it for infantile *beep* like you...perhaps you should go now and stimulate the two or three brain cells that are still functioning by playing a "war" game on your PC.

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i read the book after i watched the movie and the best bit was cut out, which is typical
they always got linguinellis name wrong (see even i can't spell it) as he is dying he tells the sarg 'my name is vincent, remember me' the end of the book is where the sarg takes his kid to the vietnam memorial in DC and shows him linguinellis name and the kid asks if thats why his name is vincent

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I never knew there was a book. I will have to check it out!

you were born a pig farmer.
you'll always BE a pig farmer.
And now, you will DIE a pig farmer.

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the most realistic war movie ever. Platoon was good, but there was a lot of dramatic liscence. This movie has no political agenda, it just shows how it happened, and makes you feel for the soldiers and how brave they were, no matter if you supported the war or not.

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Joking of course.
Full Metal Jacket is the best Viet-Nam War film ever. And that ain’t no *beep*
There are many who’ll agree with and droves who won’t.
But!..before you start calling me an *beep* just watch FMJ again. Pay close attention to the scene where Joker and the Lust-Hog squad lose their platoon leader (mister t0uchdown) in a small ambush in the outskirts of Hue.
We are treated to the following scene of the Marines moving up toward a series of shelled buildings where they NVA supposedly came from.
Marines approach the building in one take - watch this carefully, twice.

See what I mean, huh?

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Ohh for those of you out there that rate Full Metal Jacket, all i can say is sorry, but the city scene was filmed in CENTRAL LONDON...I know i worked there..Canary Wharfe...all Kubrick did was fly in a couple of palm trees...They were knocking down this big industrial area so Kubrick got it cheap...

cop out or what...I could never go to that part of London again without sniggering...and wearing Kevlar just in case any snipers were about...lol

carpe diem

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isle of dogs (beckton gasworks) - where FMJ's Hue sequence was filmed is well known.
kubrick wasn't exactly the type to go filming in SEA, so i think they did a damned good job filming this in the UK.
i showed this (both FMJ and HH) recently to a new generation who hadnt seen or heard of them before.
they were amazed that FMJ wasn't filmed entirely on location...

i dont see it as a cop out - i do see it as an amazing feat to shoot some of a Vietnam War film in the middle of a European city!!!


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George Lucas didn't film the Death Star scenes on an actual Death Star either.

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Platoon was just plain bad and full metal jacket is much better than hamburger hill in writing and directing, it was genius with all the little things that happened. However, this movie is misunderstood and there is a much better level of realism than in most war movies.

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Though my response is over a year late, thank you for your insights as a combat medic. I am a veteran myself, though not a combat vet. I trained for it, we looked like these GIs did after war games, emphasis in the "games" part but never faced an enemy in combat. Your insights as to how it really was brings it home for the viewers. Thank you for your observations and more importantly, your service.

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What other war movies would you reccomend?
Thanks for your time.

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Off the top of my head:

WWI:

All's Quiet on the Western Front (1930 Version)
Dawn Patrol (Both versions)
The Fighting 69th
What Price Glory
Paths of Glory
Lawrence of Arabia
(To see how we got to where we are today in the Middle East)
The Blue Max

WWII:

12 O'Clock High
A Walk in the Sun
They Were Expendable
Battleground
The Story of GI Joe
Saving Private Ryan
Band of Brothers
Run Silent, Run Deep
PT 109
Back to Bataan
Patton
The Enemy Below
In Harm's Way
From Here to Eternity
Tora Tora Tora
Cross of Iron
The Longest Day
The Dirty Dozen
The Flying Leathernecks
Sands of Iwo Jima
Wake Island
Guadacanal Diary
The Desert Rats
One of our Aircraft is Missing

Korean War:

Pork Chop Hill
Men in War
Battle Hymn
The Hunters
One Minute to Zero
Time Limit
Fixed Bayonets!

Cold War:

Dr. Strangelove
Fail Safe
7 Days in May
13 Days
The Bedford Incident
The Strategic Air Command
(For the aerial scenary if nothing else)


Vietnam:

Go Tell the Spartans
Hamburger Hill
We Were Soldiers Once
The Boys in Company C
The Siege of Fire Base Gloria (for R. Lee Ermey)
Full Metal Jacket (Also for R Lee Ermey)











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You have excellent taste in films Homer.

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Why, thank you!

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Your Welcome. Im really looking forward to the Pacific when It comes out myself. Also I'm interested in finding a copy of Kokoda. Porkchop Hill and Firebase Gloria are decent films and I also think they are very underrated. Ive also got all 3 seasons of Tour of Duty. Again, good and underrated much like this film. You should also add Taegukgi hwinalrimyeo to your Korean war list. Good film about the war from Korea, about two South Korean brothers. hmmm actually maybe I'll make a list myself when I get more time.

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The Tour of Duty series was cool. I watched it every week.

you were born a pig farmer.
you'll always BE a pig farmer.
And now, you will DIE a pig farmer.

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Thanks for the titles. I hadn't heard of Taegukgi before. Sounds intriguing. Where can someone get a copy?

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Well, I actually rented it from Hollywood video. It was in the foreign film section. the imdb link is this. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386064/

The USA title is Tae Guk Gi: The Brotherhood of War.
It came out in 2004. It should be available at most online DVD stores, and you might find it at your local blockbuster or other rental place (if they are any kind of a store they can get it for you if they don't have it.) but if you really have trouble finding it, check out a torrent site.

Fair warning, its in Korean with English subs. I actually prefer films like that as it adds to realism. It is actually about the war from the Korean perspective.

I like your list though. Id probably the same myself. Id probably add Letters from Iwo Jima, and a couple other to the WWII list myself. Other then that a good list.

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i wouldent say the greatest nam movie
i am deeply in love with apocolypse now
but it is definetly in the top three nam movies ever made
its too bad the rating on this site does not show that

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Nice post. I agree. Thanks.

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best film ..nahhh....it's pretty good...but 84 Charlie Mopic...thats a different level...and no one has mentioned it yet...


Carpe Discum

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I must agree that 84C Mopic was an outstanding movie. While minimalist, it was very realistic. The end made the hair stand up on my neck. It's been some time since the original post and I can honestly appreciate a great deal of the responses here. We each have our reasons for why a particular film is our own personal favorite. That last long list of war movies was Killer. I think I have seen all of them and they were all awesome! That's the glory of film. It can provide us with an emotional response that is all our own. I have always loved War movies. In fact, I believe they were a big influence for my joining the Army back then. They were a call to adventure that all true adventurers must answer to.



Apocalypse now was a well filmed movie. But let's face it,Coppola sold us a dream. The original book isn't even set in Vietnam. Hearts of Darkness could be set in LA and would probably be more effective. I think that the next big
Vietnam War movie exposed it.

I can remember going to see Platoon back in 1986 with my girlfriend at the time. I can remember the emotional response of the Vietnam Veterans who saw Platoon that night in Berkeley, CA. They held each other and cried like Brothers reunited by the tragedy of a time long gone by. To them, Platoon was real and ignited many memories. At the time, I attempted to understand, but would never truly be a part of that Fraternity because it was just not mine. My admiration for those heroes goes on though. And I must admit that there had to be something there that made those Veterans react so profoundly. Maybe it was the story and the conflict among the characters who ripped each other to shreds, fighting over Taylor's soul. Maybe they somehow related to each character in some subconscious way.. I dont know... I should probably stop trying. .

Looking back at FMJ, I still enjoy the film very much. It just never really gave me what I wanted from the combat perspective. It never had enough time really. My favorite scenes are the Basic training scenes. They are quite realistic. But once again, the Marines are a different fraternity.


Hamburger Hill showed Professional Soldiers. The 101st Airborne Division was and is an elite force of professionally trained soldiers that have but one thing on their mind. GETTING THE JOB DONE. This movie is based on a true story, set in May of 1969. 1 battle, 1 unit, 1 mission. It just feels so much closer to what I experienced. I think that many of the troops in our nation's current engagement might agree that having the back of the soldier next to you is enough of a load to handle.

HH left us with this quote in the end. I'll never forget it.

"If you are able, save for them a place inside of you and save one backward glance when you are leaving the places they can no longer go.

Be not ashamed to say you loved them, though you may or may not have always. Take what they have taught you with their dying and keep it with your own.

And in that time when men can decide and feel safe to call the war insane, take one moment to embrace those gentle heroes you left behind."

Major Michael O'Donnell
KIA March 24, 1970 Dak To, Vietnam

God Bless You and God Bless America

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Thank you aonwest for your posts and your service. Your insight on the importance of the medics in combat is enlightening. HH does give the audience a glimpse that these soldiers truly have the weight of the world on their shoulders. I don't think anyone can fully comprehend the experience of trying to save the lives of fallen comrades in their final moments and then loosing them but at the very least this movie makes the attempt. I'm not going to attempt to debate which is the best Vietnam War film ever because I think all those mentioned show us different perspectives of this war and the terrible conditions which all soldiers were exposed and let's be honest, that's why we watch these films, to be at a safe distance from the horror and still come away with an understanding of what all surviving war veterans live with everyday of their lives. "...feel safe to call ALL war insane." Thank you to all veterans who read this post.

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