MovieChat Forums > Hamburger Hill (1987) Discussion > The Best Vietnam War Film Yet!

The Best Vietnam War Film Yet!


The film Hamburger Hill was the best Vietnam War film of it's generation. It's historical significance, gritty realism and coverage of the role of the African American as well as the Combat Medic were all that was needed to put it on top when it's compared it's rivals, Platoon and Full Metal Jacket.

Unlike Platoon, Hamburger Hill was a real event that took place in May of 1969. What historians won't tell you is that The historical significance of this battle was that the U.S. Army basically destroyed an entire NVA regiment on that hill. Sure the 101st Airborne took heavy losses, but the NVA lost 10 times as many soldiers in that battle. This is the same case whenit came to the war at large. The U.S won battle after battle in Vietnam, but the victories were perceived as losses because Americans lost lives.

I will grant the fact that Full Metal Jacket covers another side of the war when it goes urban in the city of Hue during the Tet Offensive, but it is from a surreal perspective that is delivered from one man's point of view. Platoon's main character took the route of the Hero's journey as well. From a character development standpoint, those two films do well in developing character with thier heroes philosophical voiceovers, however Hamburger Hill takes a whole squad of fresh green recruits and places them into a hell that has already been developed by the film's opening battle sequence. In the end, the Hero is the entire squad of men, with diverse ideals and backgrounds. They are separate in thier beliefs, race, economics and morality, but as a group, they are one character. THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

From a realists perspective, we can see John Irwin's willingness to explore blood and guts from the gate. Chaos erupts amidst radio traffic in the high grass of the Ashau Valley. An Airborne soldier is blown from his feet and lands 20 feet away, in front of his fellow squad member. His intestines shudder and shimmer in the blazing hot sun while his comrade, Motown calls for a Medic. Mowtown throws a grenade in the direction of the enemy and puts out disciplined fire for the coverage of his flank. This is War.

There are anumber of scenes that are technically stunning and highlighted by the textbook war injuries. The Exploding head of the NVA soldier shot with an M60 later in the film was masterful and memorable. The pyrotechnics are outstanding as well. There is one scene that shows the trees being splintered by exploding claymore mines that have been placed in the trees. A few soldiers disappear into mist as they are ripped apart by the explosions. Nothing like this had ever been seen before. Let's remember that this film is from 1987, 10 years before the CGI graphics that made the Normandy invasion look so awesome when Spielberg covered WWII in "Saving Private Ryan" in 1998. This battle was fought in the daylight. Irwin takes full advantage of the visual opportunity and brings it home with flair. He gives great respect to the NVA soldiers who give just as good as they get. You can only imagine thier resolve to remain on that hill and die in place as they are overrun by strong, well equipped and atheletic corn-fed young men who are backed by superior firepower.

In FMJ, the African Americans are just an after thought. Private Snowball is the only black to be remembered in the Garrison sequence, and 8-ball is just memorable enough to take the racist rumblings of Animal Mother and still like him. (why?) In Platoon, the majority of the blacks are portrayed as cowards in the end. One runs from the enemy and knocks himself out by running into a tree. Another stabs himself in the leg so he can get out of the fight. Another is a dope feind and finally, Big Harold, gets wounded, Manny get's killed early and King, gets out of the fight by getting an early out by mistake. Hardly the contribution that African American Soldiers put forth in the war. In Hamburger Hill, the black men are Brave, mostly sober, squared away and intellectually stimulating. There is a sense of unity among these men that the white soldiers can't touch. The "Brother Dap" which is a form of rythmic handshake is displayed in the movie. Black opinions are strong and very much on point with what black soldiers believed during the turbulent civil rights era. These opinions go largely uncovered in the other two films.


No other film has ever given the combat medic such a coveted place in an infantry based film. In Platoon the Medic is inept. He fails the test early by reversing the steps on a sucking chest wound. (The plastic goes under the bandage to seal the wound, not the other way around. At the end, he falls apart because he has too many casualties. (can't say I blame him though.) He has such a small role written for the effect that says "yeah we had medics" that when he get's blown away, we don't really care. The same goes with Doc J in Full metal Jacket. He is sacrificed, which is totally unrealistic. Losing your Medic is like losing your queen on the chess board. He did do an excellent LBJ impersonation though.


In Hamburger Hill, Cortney B. Vance is the one who stands out in a group of outstanding actors. He takes on the role of Doc Johnson with the passion of a real Combat Medic. The technique by which he tends to his men is straight out of the 91B manual. I was amazed to see at the end of the credits that the Academy of Health Sciences at Ft. Sam Houston was involved in advising Vance. He was incredibly realistic. He must have gone to Medic School. His character delivers a highly knowledgable, fiesty performance. Emotionally, he is realistic as the warrior/healer who will punch you in the mouth with one hand and then save your life with the other. He serves as one of the major forces in the film to galvanize the troops to the final victory. I hope to see Mr. Vance take on another role that involves such Emotion. What Hamburger Hill shows, is the fact that Medics are highly respected and very much an important part of an infantry unit. That's not something that most people know.

My 12 year experience in the Infantry and my short but very real experience in War (G-1) as a combat medic was highlighted by seeing this film. I was later able to use it as a tool to show others a way to see into a segment of life that many will never see in real life. No War film will ever be 100% real. You'll never smell the cordite or taste the blood of your comrades in the mist. You'll never feel the absolute terror that triggers your desire to flee as you fight it and stand fast out of duty, honor and respect for friends that you may have been aquinted with but for only a moment. Some that you may never see again, even if you live. War is truly hell. I would never trade the experience for anything though. Hamburger Hill get's you as close as you wanna get.

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Very well-written OP. Thanks for your comments and your service.


Hey! This food is getting cold! And I want some more gravy!

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it is on now
I will watch it

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I watched HH for the first time last night. I'm not going to argue that it may have been more realistic than other war movies but I just couldn't get submerged into it like I have with other war movies. I have to say i liked Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, Apocalypse Now and Saving Private Ryan much more.

Sometimes...dead is better.

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Great post about a great movie. And thank you to everyone here who's served their country whether in war or peacetime.

Hamburger Hill is probably my favorite Vietnam movie, followed by Platoon and then Full Metal Jacket. I've tried to get into Apocalypse Now but its surreal atmosphere just keeps it from being what I'd hoped for.

I'm curious what the OP's (and anyone else's) opinion is of We Were Soldiers. Not to discredit the brave soldiers who fought in the Ia Drang valley (including Hal Moore), but the movie was too much Hollywood for me. I read the book before seeing the movie, and to me they tried too hard to deify Hal Moore while the combat scenes seemed unrealistic. I've never fought in combat, but it just seemed that for well-trained soldiers the NVA did a lot of blindly charging with their guns at their sides. Also I thought it was a crime to end the movie the way they did with *beep* flying in to save the day like John Wayne.

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Fox: WWS was EARLY in the American phase of the War...the NVA regiments were on orders from Giap himself to 'go out & take one for the team'...they had to get in there & take that the Cavalrymen could 'dish out' so their higher ups could get an idea of the sort of firepower & mobility 1st Cav had...once that happened they adapted their tactics accordingly...in any case when it came to attacking a 'fixed position', 'massed human wave attacks' were a regular feature of the NVA during the war;

NM

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>>>"I've never fought in combat, but it just seemed that for well-trained soldiers the NVA did a lot of blindly charging with their guns at their sides."<<<

They were well-trained, but then they also lost about 5 soldiers for every 1 that the U.S. lost in that battle (which was typical of fights between the U.S. and the NVA in the war). Well-trained or not, that's taking serious beating, and it only happens if you're blatantly putting yourself in front of the opposition's guns. U.S. veterans of both Korea and Vietnam have spoken out with amazement to reckless - sometimes seemingly endless - charges put on by Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese infantry.

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Traianus:

Not so much well trained as 'well drilled'; attacks against fixed positions are usually rehearsed repeatedly against (usually VERY well researched & reconned) mockups of the target-with the hopes that preparatory fire & 'pile on' tactics will win the day;

In any case, the NVA was able to control their casualites--as light infantry with a minimal logistical 'tail' they could pretty much disengage & avoid contact at will; as such they pretty well fought when & where THEY wanted.
I think I read a statistic that when it came to company sized operations and larger something like 80% were initiated by the NVA;

NM

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Thank you guys both for your insight. It's a shame to see so many people basically just blindly ordered to their deaths (no matter which side they were on). You'd think after seeing some of the disastrous battles of WWI and the ineffectiveness of the Soviet "Human Wave" tactics during WWII that the Vietnamese would have learned something.

I wonder how many of those casualties in that lopsided ratio though were caused by airpower and artillery? I'm not doubting either one of you as to the tactics being employed. In WWS, I wasn't as much questioning the techniques though as the fact that an awful lot of the soldiers seemed to rush in with their guns at their side rather than constantly firing or at least holding them in a firing position.

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The firepower diff IS part of it...that's why the NVA always tried to get as close as possible to the enemy in order to neutralize the firepower disadvantage---Can't use Arty & TacAir safely if the enemy is too close.

That being said, The NVA High Command didn't give much thought to casualties; it's been said that the NVA's Head Honcho Giap didn't care about HIS casualties; he measured his success by the number of coffins going back to the US.


NM

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Those are actually both very smart tactics IMO. Ideologies aside, getting in close and having a fighting chance instead of being pounded from the air is pretty smart.

And considering there was no way the NVA/Viet Cong could match us in firepower, winning the battle in the hearts of Americans is a very smart move.

That whole war was really just a tragedy...

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Great post, reads like a critique we might do for my film and tv class in high school.

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Agreed. I loved this film. Great acting and great writing to go along with it.

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Thanks for the post aonwest.

While I don't think the only way to value a film is by its "realism," especially in the case of Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket which had surreal elements for a psychological rather than literal historical purpose, it is also important to recognize when a film does strive for the upmost literal realism.

I would disagree with your opinion on Platoon... the biggest "coward" is by far the white character John C. Reilly plays, and in the end with WHY he does what he does, it's 100% understandable and you don't see him as a coward. So I don't think that film was trying to portray any soldier, especially African Americans, as cowardly, but rather people realizing maybe their lives have more value than the war they're fighting - since they don't even know WHY they're fighting. You saw the same sort of problems in WW1, and All Quiet on the Western Front (the greatest war novel I've ever read) really gets into this psychology.

WHY one fights can be incredibly important, even if the specifics of war may not change. Jarhead, a mediocre film, did have a great line: "All wars are the same, all wars are different." I think that about hits it. Black Hawk Down also does a good job, where it ends up showing the soldier's perspective and how they're fighting for each other more than a nebulous and ever-changing military objective...

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Aonwest,

Thanks for the post. One of the best I have read on Imdb.

Also (and more importantly) thank you for your 12 years of service.

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Aonwest,

I agree with the post above me: great post and thank you for your service. I agree that this movie really focuses on life as it was, as opposed to something made up or dramatized. However, do remember that Oliver Stone was in Vietnam and Platoon has many moments that echo his real experiences. It was dramatized, yes, but many details in that were correct.

I love both films but for slightly different reasons. But both are great!

Cheers mate!

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Completely agree with your original post back in 2006. I consider myself an avid war history purveyor, and Hamburger Hill, to me, is the best Vietnam War film of its era. Obviously, you said it much more eloquent way, but you get the point.

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