Raging Bullcrap


I watched 46 minutes of this and it is clear this film has nothing to say, not only that but it is a pretentious film based on the biography of a rather unlikeable man. How is this considered a classic?

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You can read many opinions of why people consider it a classic if you really want to. Here is one out of thousands.
http://www.filmcritic.com/reviews/1980/raging-bull/
Also not all people are likable, that doesn't mean they aren't interesting.

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I didnĀ“t find the character or story interesting enough for this film to be considered a classic.

Jake was nothing but an insecure bully who got lucky at getting the title.

There really was nothing that fascinating about the guy or his life as far as making a film about him.

I found the entire film boring. The acting and directing of course was excellent.



If it harms none, do what thou wilt.

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I think that films with unlikeable characters or flawed character aren't a bad thing - all of Scorcese's great movies have them. I think Raging Bull is a classic - it's bold to make a black and white Hollywood film in the 80s and it's also one of the few great Hollywood 80s film which isn't a comedy or corny in some way.

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I like RAGING BULL and some do not.

I dislike THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION and most do not.

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Lol, I understand your feelings. Not everyone liked this. One youtube.com viewer said that Raging Fool is more like it. Mad - or Cracked - magazine amusingly parodied this movie as Raging Bully. Still another one referred to it as Raging Bullsh-t. To each his own. Punch!

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I am truly perplexed by the OP's correlation between RB being a bad film and the fact that La Motta is not a likeable man. And uzielis and others seem to sympathize with the OP by inserting that RB has been re-termed as Raging Fool, etc, etc, etc.

Since when does a great film need a heroic, sympathetic, sane, or likeable main character?

This is not Rocky. Nobody gets a moral victory here.

This is not Taxi Driver. There is no bloodbath that gives one an adrenaline rush.

This is Raging Bull. It is the disintegrating life of a flawed man. I think that makes it fascinating.


If you need a hero or a villain and an airtight conclusion watch cartoons.

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Heya, cbartal! Oh, mind you, though I 'sympathize' with OP, I liked the film. I really did. It's just that I found the original message amusing. The best review I've read about this was from a Canadian film critic in Vancouver [name regrettably not remembered]: Never has a greater movie been made about such an ingrate. How's that for an alliteration? Good night. And yes, sometimes movies about bitches and jerks are made. They're only human. Btw, this film was too brutal for my taste, esp when Jake beats up Joey. I couldn't stand to see that scene a second time. Actually, it wasn't Joey that got throttled in real life, but Jake's best friend Peter. Now I know why Joey sued the film makers after the said film came out.

'I'm just like you / you're just like me / we're just like them / they're just like us.' - The Cardigans.

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Maybe watch the whole movie, it might become apparent why it's considered a classic!

"You must have a really wide foot, you got both of them"

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What I don't understand, is what kind of person actually finds this sort of thing entertaining?

I stuck it out for the whole 2 hours, and all I can say is if you turned off after 46 minutes, or even 5, you missed nothing!

Unless you are a pretentious knob, steer clear of this one.

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The movie is considered classic because it has experimented with certain cinematic elements which was quite novel and profound.For example the movie is in B/W because it wanted to recreate the 40s period. The boxing ring contracts and expands in size as per the mood of La Motta thus depicting maximalism which is a strong cinematic tool. There is a lot of symbolism in the movie, for example La Motta can be considered as Jesus with the ring ropes as the crucification cross and the brigth light as the voice from heaven.In one shot La Motta is blood soaked thus symbolising Christ crucified.In earlier times boxing mmatches in films were rarely visualized by employing the totality of expressive film grammar to transform them from the form in which the boxing events were historically televised.Sound effects were very aptly used to project La Motta's psyche tortured by demons, unrelenting rage, severe paranoia and a crippling anger.The aural stretches during the matches, the transformation from diegetic sounds to fight bell, camera explosion, to a distorted cacophany is a symbol of he depths of La Motta's mental deterioration. La Motta;s journey into a life of debauchery after retiring can be compared to Dante's Hell. When La Motta says " I am not the animal",it is a sad plea for redemption. To repent for other's sins is a centrepiece of Catholic Theology. Redemption can be attained by prayer, but for Scorsese, the sins of life must be exorcised not just spiritually but physically as is symbolised by La Motta's self torture in the cell as well as inside boxing ring during the bout with sugar Ray.His insane jealousy and suicidal attitude makes him spritually bankrupt."Raging Bull" is a case study in psychology which brilliantly explores subtext in personal expression.Scorsese made this movie not for the entertainment of the general audience but as a magnum opus of his own cinematic vision, for a director's artistic self actualisation. Hence it is quite natural that normal audience might find the movie not interesting. There are many more aspects to Raging Bull which can be discussed at greater length, that takes this film definitely quite a few notches higher that other contemporary biopics.

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There goes that "pretentious" word being thrown around these boards by the 15 year olds again, LOL.

Stick to video games and Batman movies, kiddos.

By the way, the definition of "pretentious" isn't what you've been led to believe. Contrary to the popular imdb opinion nowadays, "pretentious" is not defined as "I'm too stupid to understand this movie's intent/purpose, therefore it is "pretentious"."

Dumb little guys, LOLOL...

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Even though you bash on those being pretentious, you end up being pretentious yourself. Merely because someone is 15, it does not mean they are stupid, ignorant, or immature.

Moving on, I felt that this movie had fantastic directing and acting, however, I was not drawn to it. I felt an immense amount of pleasure when Jake was reduced to a sad sack of manflesh at the end of the film. To see such bullishness and brutishness is not pleasing or entertaining me. I enjoyed how Raging Bull was filmed and directed, just not the film.

I aplaud discourse and abhor discourse-challenged trolls.

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@romefan123

to abuse someone jus for the fun of it doesn make u a stud or nething...I would appreciate if you wolud come up with some bit of analysis of your own rather than show off...jus remember it does take any credit to use offensive words..I could do that as well...I would really want to see how great an analysis can u generate of your own...be a little smart or else u have only proved ur own buffoonery...

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That's what it is supposed to symbolise

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It isn't "considered" a classic. It IS a classic. Define pretentious please, and try not to check the dictionary first.

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What an amusing thread :)

I can see both sides of the argument. Obviously DeNiro is awesome in this movie, and as a work of film it was very, very well done. I thought the whole way they did the fight scenes was very cool, with all the constant smoke and eerie sounds and whatnot, really added a level of surrealism to an otherwise painfully realistic movie. I can definitely understand disliking the main character, I thought he was basically an extremely dangerous and toxic person, but to me that's kind of interesting in and of itself--he's a fighter, that's just what he is. Being a rage demon is his existence. I loved the opening credits, I think they kind of say it all: the entire movie is about what a seemingly ugly, destructive, and kind of sad trainwreck of an individual this guy is; but when you see him in the opening credits you realize this is just a guy who's so good at one thing that it's an unspeakably beautiful, miraculous thing to behold. It just happens to be a thing that kind of dooms you to a pretty sad existence and makes you a burden to everyone around you. Very interesting, I thought.

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LaMotta was supposed to be unlikable, but maybe he viewed himself that way and thus realism enters the film. You have to give JLM props, because he allowed a portrayal of himself as one of the biggest *beep* on Earth

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Yeah, that's true...I hadn't really thought about that aspect of it. I'd be interested to know what he thought of the movie, seeing as it definitely does not paint a flattering portrait of him at all.

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You should check out Jake LaMotta's personal website, he's still alive(!) - it's........interesting :)

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Interesting points, folks. As mentioned in the other active thread, Raging Bull is not a film I want to see repeatedly, unlike say, Taxi Driver or Goodfellas. But I feel the bleakness and brutishness is more than made up for with Jake's sad sack of flesh ending.

And mastodon t: Raging Bull, like the works of Tolstoy, Kubrick, or Dostoevsky, were not created as classics. They are works of art, aka, subjective to opinion, and thus became considered classics over time, rightly or wrongly (rightly, imo, of course).

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I agree with all you wrote - interesting how you find Taxi Driver a film you can watch repeatedly - I can also - but I know people who cannot, in my opinion (only mine!) not all well made or even so called classic films have to be "pleasant" to watch, though I do understand where people who say that are coming from. Again, just my opinion, I have found the movies that are the most difficult to watch end up being the most rewarding. :)

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Can the OP and similar types actually dress themselves of a morning?

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Yeah, that's true...I hadn't really thought about that aspect of it. I'd be interested to know what he thought of the movie, seeing as it definitely does not paint a flattering portrait of him at all.


Supposedly, he watched the movie in the theatre with Vicki (they remained friends after divorcing) and asked "was I really that bad?" and she replied "no, you were worse".

I can't imagine why Jake would actually be bothered by how he was portrayed in the movie, seeing as it was based on his autobiography.

The things that Jake admits to doing in his book are FAR worse than anything in the movie. It made me really dislike the person. A real sick, disgusting individual. The movie version is a Saint compared to how he described himself in his autobio.

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He probably made up most of the crap in his autobiography. No one acts like that in reality.

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