Inspiration for Star Trek - Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (1964) Discussion

[–] dragster-2 18 years ago

Yes, you are right. I just mentioned this point in a comment I submitted on the TY series.

"I have seen and heard things in my life that are best left UNTOLD!"

reply

[–] Blueghost 10 years ago

Without question. You can see it in the VTTBOTS feature film, and subsequently this TV series.

As much of an Original Star Trek fan / nut that I am, I think Voyage lasted longer because they weren't afraid of just telling good old fashioned adventure stories.

Not every story had to have some deep social or psychological theme, as was the case with Star Trek. Voyage was about some of those things, but it was about confronting dangers the old fashioned way.

It's a good show

reply

[–] winterview 18 years ago

I don't have a time line handy, but it seems VTTBOTS was on one year before Lost in Space and that Star Trek started the same year as LIS.

Additionally, Star Trek went through two go rounds in the pilot episode process. I'm not sure how long that took, but it might make Star Treks roots a little deeper than LIS. Not sure if this is correct, but the movie, VTTBOTS, might have been considered the 'pilot' for the TV serie, thus abbreviating it's developement cycle.

As I recall, Irwin Allen had a hand in both incarnations of VTTBOTS and LIS. Seems LIS might have had a small controversy in the early days as having been 'lifted' (so to speak) from another project/concept.

Inspiration for all three series probably more rooted in the US space program and the remarkable developement work of Admiral Rickover on nuclear submarines for the US navy.

I need to dig out my box of goodies on this stuff.

reply

[–] rmsunirish 18 years ago

Star Trek debuted in Sept, 1966, two years after Voyage, one after LIS. Voyage had its own pilot, 'Eleven Days to Zero', which was filmed in Novemeber of 1983. Irwin pitched it to the network, and it was picked up by ABC, debuting on Sept. 14th, 1964. The development cycle was note abbreviated in any way for Voyage.

It was based on the film, which was released in 1961, but it did take Irwin two years to get it to the stage to shoot the pilot ep.

As to the controversy with LIS, yes, there is someone who claims that the concept was stolen, but as for the fact that Irwin is deceased, and no one can say where, when or how he developed LIS, the question is moot, no matter what the other party claims.

Voyage stands on its own. From the film and the series.

rmsunirish

reply

[–] Fred1863 18 years ago

I'm a big fan of Voyage (Movie & series). However, as an inspiration for Star Trek I'd have to disagree. I read that Gene Rodenberry originally envisioned Star Trek as a sort of "Wagons West" set in outer space. I also read that a lot of the Star Trek characters were taken from C.S. Forester's novels (Rodenberry was a big Hornblower fan).

Now if you want to talk about Voyage being an inspiration for another TV show, lets talk about what inspired the creators of Seaquest DSV . . .

reply

[–] rmsunirish 18 years ago

Voyage was definitely the inspiration for Seaquest, too many similarities to ignore. However, I believe that Voyage was a better series altogether, in spite of the poor quality of later season scripts. Just as a note, however, Voyage, the series, was on the air a good two years before Trek, and not a few of the Trek stories had similar, if not the same storylines of Voyage episodes. Don't get me wrong, I was a fan of the original Star Trek too, but Voyage was there first. And Rodenberry did know how to market, market, market, which Irwin didn't.

reply

[–] Fred1863 18 years ago

Come to think about it, Voyage did have a few episodes that were similar to later Trek episodes. And Trek always seemed to get treated better by the critics for some reason. The first season of Voyage was some good TV, especially for a show done in the mid mid-60's. I have to wonder if Irwin Allen just didn't care what the critics thought.

But I can't argue with you about Irwin being the better businessman. Rodenberry had all but lost control of the Trek franchise even before the series reached it's final season. Irwin Allen ran a tight ship start to finish, was merchandising stuff like crazy and had those shows in syndication ASAP. If poor Rodenberry could have known how big Star Trek was going to get 20 years later, he'd have been amazed. Again Allen seemed more concerned about the here & now, not what sort of legacy his show would leave. A good, pragamatic busnessman . . .

reply

[–] gasfarty 18 years ago

The idea of a military or para-military ship in sci-fi situations is nothing new. Check out 1956's "Forbidden Planet" for an obvious ancestor to "Star Trek," and you can find many, many films or short stories that feature a similar concept. But the series "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" was also predated by a film that shared many similarities to "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea," written nearly 100 years earlier. With the space program and emerging reliance on technology, the mid-1960s was a golden age for sci-fi TV programming; as with today, when one thing is successful, it usually spawns a bunch of imitators.

reply

[–] vranger (444) 5 years ago

Trek got treated better by critics because most of the scripts were thoughtful, while most Voyage scripts were shit.

reply

[–] harold_forsko 11 years ago

Best example of similar story lines: The Cyborg & What Are Little Girls Made Of?

Scientist creates faux Nelson & faux Kirk. Use of Seaview & Enterprise for purposes of conquest. Faux Nelson & faux Kirk reveal themselves to Crane & Spock. Babe assistants Gundi & Andrea perish at the end.

Airdate of The Cyborg October 17, 1965. Airdate of WALGMO October 20, 1966.

reply

[–] GoodbyePorkPieHat 9 years ago

I read that Gene Rodenberry originally envisioned Star Trek as a sort of "Wagons West" set in outer space.

"A wagon train to the stars", a vision Joss Whedon built upon when creating the tragically short-lived "Firefly".

So it goes.

reply

[–] fschiff 9 years ago

I think Firefly was inspired by a campaign of the tabletop roleplaying game Traveller (2 els) that Whedon had played in.

You're perverted, twisted, and sick. I like that in a person.

reply

[–] brux (14666) 5 years ago

Wagon Train - the western show.

reply

[–] DarkTheater 11 years ago

The Enterprise was already being designed in 64.

This signature has been lightly massaged by an administrator

reply

[–] flapdoodle64 10 years ago

If you look at S1 of VTTBOTS and compare it Trek, the similarities in format are obvious:

Military organization

Vehicle big enough that you don't have to have same extras each week (who can keep track of 100 faces?)

Mix of military, espionage, and scifi concepts

A lot of 'bottle shows' (filmed inside the ship/boat)

Most importantly: when Seaview is under attack or peril, it rocks violently back and forth and the actors all have to lurch to one side in unison. (AKA the Seaview Rock and Roll)

The directors of Trek 'borrowed' this idea for NCC1701, despite the fact that artifical grav would make this unlikely at best.

I think it's obvious that NBC saw that VTTBOTS was getting good ratings, so when GR pitched the concept to NBC, VTTBOTS success had to be a factor. TV is a highly immmitative medium. And there was a huge mess of scifi/fantasy dramatic series starting about 1964 with VTTBOTS and Man From UNCLE. If those 2 shows had not been successful, there would not have been a Star Trek.

reply

[–] magolding 10 years ago

When I first saw Voyage to the Bottom of the sea, I imagined that the next Irwin Allen show would be Voyage to the top of the Sky about interstellar exploration.

Some of the early star trek episodes reminded me of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea or Voyage to the top of the Sky.

reply

[–] cljohnston108 7 years ago

Also, the color scheme of the wetsuits when they go outside Seaview: Crane/Nelson wear gold, support crew wear red.

reply

[–] ddc300 10 years ago

I thought I read somewhere that when Gene Roddenberry was trying to sell the idea of "Star Trek" to NBC, the Execs asked him how the show would be cost effective with the program being set in the future and Roddenberry used "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" as sort of a template since it was a show set in the future aboard a ship with an ensemble of recurring characters.

Roddenberry mentioned out how the standing sets would eventually pay for themselves since they'd be used every week (Bridge, engine room, Captain's quarters, etc.), like the Seaview Control Room, hallways, Admiral's cabin and missile room. The suits pointed out that "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" was set in the near future and because of that benefited from doing some location shooting saving costs in those areas, and felt that ST would be cost prohibitive in that area. Roddenberry admitted that with a 23rd Century setting in "Star Trek" they rarely make use of locations, but that "Trek" would need a 'planet set' that could be made cost effective by changing the scenery and using different backdrops (as they eventually did in the series), to make for varying storylines.

reply

[–] brux (14666) 5 years ago

Gene Roddenberry described Star Trek as Wagon Train to the stars.

reply