We know the Sharks are the Puerto Ricans but what ethnicity are the Jets? Italian or Irish? I assume one or the other since this takes place in Hell's Kitchen (West Side NYC) correct?
Also, the actor who played Bernardo, was he in brown make-up? Because he didn't look right to me.
Thanks for your comments.
"What ethnicity were the Jets supposed to be?"
WASP. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Bernardo, played by George Chakiris, looked fine to me. He deserved to win The Oscar.
NOTICE TO MITT ROMNEY: A BAD DAY FREELOADING, IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK.
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You make a valid point, craftsgal. We've been doing a LOT of chatting, together, on these boards, haven't we? It's fun, I'm having a GOOD time!
NOTICE TO MITT ROMNEY: A BAD DAY FREELOADING, IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK.
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"Glad you enjoy chatting with me on this board, too."
You've ONLY been on imdb.com for two months and two weeks?? But, you DO it so well! Do you get ambushed by a lot of trolls, here? Besides me, of course!
NOTICE TO MITT ROMNEY: A BAD DAY FREELOADING, IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK.
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"I've actually been on and off imdb.com for almost three years now..."
Ah, THAT explains it! You communicate, here, too well, to be a Newbie! I find the best part about these boards is that - once in awhile - you run into a poster that holds your interest, the way that YOU certainly do. The bad part, of course, are the ubiquitous trolls. I have an Ignore This User list, a mile long!! "The Town," huh? I've gotta' go check it out!
NOTICE TO MITT ROMNEY: A BAD DAY FREELOADING, IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK.
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"Imho, however, Ben Affleck's 'The Town' is quite overrated..."
Hhhhhmmmmm? Ben Affleck has NEVER been MY cup of tea. Have you seen, "Argo?"
NOTICE TO MITT ROMNEY: A BAD DAY FREELOADING, IS BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK.
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Wrong, they are polish stupid.
shareI think that the Jets are mainly Irish-Catholic, with a smattering of Italians, and Tony, who is a Polish Catholic. The Irish-Catholic ethnicity is indicated when the Jets (sarcastically) greet Lt. Schrank and later, Ofcr. Krupe with "Top of the day, Lt. Schrank.', and "Top of the evening, Ofcr. Krupke."
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That's right, jmusacha, but some people like to put in the individual ethnicity. Also, during the War Council, when the Jets and Sharks exchange ethnic epitats, one does hear derogatory ethnic slurs being uttered/exchanged between the two gangs. So, yes, even though the theme of the Jets all being native-born American New Yorkers in conflict with immigrants of a different race and culture is there, this particular moment of the exchange of ethnic slurs between the Jets and Sharks during the war council, and when Bernardo calls Tony a "Yellow-bellied Pollack" during the rumble makes one aware of the ethnicity that's also present, if one gets the drift.
shareOringally the "Jets" were suppose to be Catholics and Maria was suppose to be Jewish the Jewish gang were suppose to be called "The Emarlads"Anton is of Polish and Irish descent
shareThis:
Oringally the "Jets" were suppose to be Catholics and Maria was suppose to be Jewish the Jewish gang were suppose to be called "The Emarlads"Anton is of Polish and Irish descent
However, Action does refer to Tony and the"day we clobbered the Emeralds", which could be nothing but an Irish gang.
shareThat was when the Jets were still staking out and laying claim to their territory, I think that was Ice who referred to Tony with the quote "Man...remember them fists the day we clobbered the Emeralds".
Riff also said, a little before that "The Hawks claimed it..We knocked them down the cellar."
When the Puerto Ricans came in, then it began to be more about race.
I read somewhere that Tony was originally Italian, but one of the producers was touchy about that and in pre-production they changed it to Polish. Hence we have an Italian looking guy, with an Italian name - who is supposed to be Polish.
We can conclude that their ethnicity is fairly arbitrary - only that the Jets are of European rather than Latino origin.
I'm not sure about that, federovsky. I think Tony was originally Polish, from the beginning.
shareI can't find my source for Tony originally being Italian, but there are things like this, which shows that big changes were made to the ethnicity of the characters:
"Playwright Arthur Laurents and Robbins began work on the project in 1949, transforming feuding families into street gangs and moving the action from Italy to New York’s Upper East Side. The original gangs were Roman Catholic (the Jets) and Jewish (the Emeralds). But after Laurents read articles on New York’s surging Puerto Rican population, he changed the lead characters’ nationalities to Polish-American (Tony) and Puerto Rican (Maria)."
[http://encoreatlanta.com/west-side-story/]
My hunch is that as the film-makers were largely Jewish, they didn't want to alienate the Jewish market completely. Making Tony Polish would at least enable many of the Jewish audience to identify with him, seeing as many Jewish immigrants came from Poland.
However, that's speculation. If you find definitive evidence that Tony was always Polish, I'd be interested.
A couple of points: Tony's name is Anton - Polish, not Italian.
The reference you quoted above is a little misleading because the play written by Laurents in 1949, East Side Story was shelved. In part because Laurents and the others felt that the Catholic/Jewish conflict was not a new one. Six years later, Robbins, Bernstein and Laurents decided to revisit it. By that time the influx of Hispanic immigrants was in the news. There was some discussion among the three of setting the play in Los Angeles with a Mexican American gang. But Laurents felt more comfortable writing about New York.
I don't understand your theory about alienating the Jewish market. Do you think Jews would only come see a play with Jewish characters?
All the switching around though does support the assumption that Tony was changed from Italian to Polish.
The fact that he is called Anton is surely only an indication that he was originally called Antonio. If it was so significant that he was Polish they would have called him Zbigniev to make it clear.
The casting is also an indicator. Fact is that Tony is an archetypal Italianate-romantic character: he looks (and sings) like Mario Lanza, and corresponds to Romeo. There's nothing at all Polish about him. I think they deliberate fudged the issue.
I didn't say that Jews would only be interested in Jewish characters, but that they would be more interested in a film that had some connection with their own (immigrant) experience, and making Tony Polish would at least resonate with that.
Anyway, I don't expect you to change your opinion - people never do. Definitive documentary evidence needed. I wish I could find that reference...
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Well, you're right that everyone is entitled to their opinion. And it's possible you're right about Tony once being Italian, but in my opinion, not very probable. The corresponding character in the 1949 version of this was most likely Irish and not Italian, since the Jets were an Irish gang. Whether there was ever an Italian Tony, in the 1955 redraft, I don't know. The Jets seem like an ethnic mishmash to me. I think the name Tony is much more accessible to all American audiences than would Zbigniew be. Can't quite see "Zbigniew" fitting into the music either. "Zbiggy, Zbiggy, Zbiggy" rather than "Tony, Tony, Tony?" I don't think so. For what it's worth, neither Anton nor Zbigniew make it into the top 100 of Polish male first names. http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/penpals/stats.php3?Pays=POL
In the original 1949 version, the Jewish gang, the Emeralds, would have corresponded to the Sharks, not the Jets. If anything, Jews would be expected to analogize their immigrant experience to the Puerto Ricans, not to the Jets. So making one of the Jets Polish doesn't seem too helpful.
Also, although you say that Tony looks more Italian than Polish, many have complained that Natalie Wood doesn't appear very Hispanic, either. I don't believe that the actor, Richard Beymer, is either Italian or Polish. As for the singing, Tony was sung by Jimmy Bryant from Alabama. I'd hypothesize that Richard Beymer was cast because he looked more like the typical teen heartthrob of the day (e.g., Elvis, Frankie Avalon, Fabian, etc.) than because of any particular ethnicity.
Moreover, you're overlooking that prior to the movie, there was the stage musical. On stage, Tony was played by Larry Kert, who doesn't at all appear Italian. So you'd really be suggesting that they were thinking of changing Tony to Italian in between the stage and the screen, which seems even more unlikely to me.
You say that definitive documentary evidence is needed. Since you seem interested, how about doing some? There have been several books written on the subject. I read "West Side Story: Cultural Perspectives on an American Musical" by Elizabeth A. Wells, which had some interesting background. Looking at Amazon, there appear to be three or four others. I found the book I read in the local library. And if you're really interested in it, I think that each of the four creators, Laurents, Bernstein, Robbins and Sondheim have left plenty of archival material. So, please, go do some digging. I think those of us who regularly post on this board would be interested to read about what you find.
I think a poignant point in West Side Story is that the Jets were not WASPS either (you probably wouldn't see their mothers being members of the Daughters of the American Revolution). The members were descendants from Eastern and Southern Europeans who had immigrated there decades before and so their generation was not that far removed from being immigrants themselves, not unlike the Puerto Ricans who recently came to New York (and to the U.S. in general).
shareFrankly, while some of the Jets are of Irish, Polish and Italian ancestry, I'd be inclined to think that the Jets were predominantly of Irish descent. That's rather clear when, during the Prologue, when Lt. Schrank and Ofcr. Krupke are greeted with "Top of the day, Lt. Schrank.", by both the Jets and the Sharks, though the Sharks copied the Jets when they greeted officer Krupke.
The Jets' predominance of Irish ancestry is also evident that, before the Sharks arrived at Doc's Candy Store for the pre-Rumble War Council, when Riff greets Officer Krupke with "Top of the evening, Officer Krupke."
Irish.
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