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Question about plot elements in Psycho

posted 3 years ago by lisalu (3)
8 replies | jump to latest

I've seen the movie more times than I can count and a couple of thing have always bothered me.

The main one is when Marion trades in her car and sees the policeman watching her from across the street. If the reason for the different car is to elude the police (and this very same officer already had her on his radar, so to speak) then what would it accomplish to replace her vehicle while he stands right there and watches except to make him even MORE suspicious? And now that he knows what car she's in, it has defeated the whole purpose of giving him the slip.

Another place where I kind of lose the thread is when Lila decides to go speak to Mrs. Bates after the Sheriff's Deputy has already told her the woman is dead. Lila should have been wondering WHO was in the house - when she noticed the lights on, or whatever - rather than assuming it was Mrs. Bates who has been established as having passed away.

If I've missed something, please enlighten me!

[–] swanstep (2628) 3 years ago

The main one is when Marion trades in her car and sees the policeman watching her from across the street. If the reason for the different car is to elude the police (and this very same officer already had her on his radar, so to speak) then what would it accomplish to replace her vehicle while he stands right there and watches except to make him even MORE suspicious? And now that he knows what car she's in, it has defeated the whole purpose of giving him the slip.

I think the explanation of this sequence is just that Marion *begins* trading-in her car thinking that the Police Officer is no longer following her. Half-way through the trading-in, however, the cop shows up and she's caught doing something a little suspicious whose purpose is now largely defeated. *But* were she to suddenly break off the transaction (evidently having noticed the cop watching her) and high-tailed it outta there, well that *would* be even more suspicious. So she's go through with the transaction as the less suspicious/lesser evil.

when Lila decides to go speak to Mrs. Bates after the Sheriff's Deputy has already told her the woman is dead. Lila should have been wondering WHO was in the house - when she noticed the lights on, or whatever - rather than assuming it was Mrs. Bates who has been established as having passed away.

Well, Lila does say to Sam when they're searching Cabin 1. "But that old woman----she told Arbogast something. I want her to tell us the same thing." So the idea is that Lila extrapolates a bit here from what Arbogast told her - that Norman had a sick old woman/mother up in the house that Marion probably talked to', i.e., to the idea that Arbogast probably ended up talking to *whoever's* up in the house. Lila's putting more trust in Arbogast's reports (and Sam's visuals) at this point than the Sheriff's.

[–] swanstep (2628) 3 years ago

(cont.) She's not assuming that it's Mrs Bates up in the house, rather maybe it's some old lady who likes to be addressed as 'Mrs Bates'... Both Sam and Lila think that Norman's the only one they've really got to be afraid of, and that whoever's up in the house (i.e., that they suspect both Marion and Arbogast met) is probably pretty helpless and is likely someone who's living in fear of Norman and who can help them and who they in turn may be able to help. Sam's not thrilled about Lila entering the house alone, but Lila has a theory according to which it's unlikely to be super-dangerous even if there's still some mystery about who she'll encounter.

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

Lila's putting more trust in Arbogast's reports (and Sam's visuals) at this point than the Sheriff's.

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And...the sheriff gave them an "out": "If it really was Mrs. Bates you saw in that window...then who's that woman buried out in Greenlawn Cemetary?"

A brilliant line(not in the novel) that misdirects us AWAY from the Sheriff thinking Mother is dead. No, wait...Mother's ALIVE, she killed some other woman who was buried in her place.

Lila going into the house is rather like Arbogast going into the house in that we can understand their mental state -- on guard, concerned, but committed to "finding out what's going on." Each is them is betting that they can handle whatever they may find("I can handle a sick old woman," Lila announces)...Arbogast loses, Lila wins(with Sam's help.)
Great storytelling.

[–] ecarle (14979) 3 years ago

And now that he knows what car she's in, it has defeated the whole purpose of giving him the slip.

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I think the explanation of this sequence is just that Marion *begins* trading-in her car thinking that the Police Officer is no longer following her. Half-way through the trading-in, however, the cop shows up and she's caught doing something a little suspicious whose purpose is now largely defeated. *But* were she to suddenly break off the transaction (evidently having noticed the cop watching her) and high-tailed it outta there, well that *would* be even more suspicious. So she's go through with the transaction as the less suspicious/lesser evil.

---

This whole sequence is a master class in paranoia...from a master. I do love how Psycho is weird and creepy(and artfully directed, shot by shot, camera move by camera move) long before Marion reaches the Bates Motel and the real horror movie begins.

Its sort of a domino effect, here. Marion slept the night in her car on the road, which attracted the highway patrolman's attention. Then she freaked out and gave him backtalk, which both aggravated the cop and FURTHER drew his attention. So he followed her...then he dropped out of view...but now he reappears near the car lot(even when he "dropped from view," he must have kept an eye on Marion's car from another vantage point and followed her.)

Had Marion just driven on up the highway, the cop likely would have stopped following her -- out of his jurisdiction. But he saw her drive into Bakersfield and he followed her there -- and watched the car transaction.

California Charlie, the car salesman, is suspicious of Marion from the get-go and MORE suspicious when the cop makes himself known.

In short, Marion is "made" and leaving witnesses all over the place to her guilt...and hence...her crime. IF the authorities know to look in Bakersfield. Maybe she's concerned over nothing.

But paranoia and guilt have her in their grip now.

[–] millsey72 (9636) 2 years ago

No, you missed nothing. They are plot holes

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

swanstep wrote:

She's not assuming that it's Mrs Bates up in the house, rather maybe it's some old lady who likes to be addressed as 'Mrs Bates'...

---

I just remembered this line from Lila to Sam late in the film:

"This old woman -- whoever she is -- told Arbogast something. I want her to tell us the same thing."

Lila is acknowledging that there is a mystery as to the old woman's identity -- maybe she is the REAL Mrs. Bates, maybe the woman buried in Greenlawn Cemetary is NOT Mrs. Bates, but Lila can't be sure who they are dealing with if the REAL Mrs. Bates IS dead(as the sheriff first suggests.) Its a great "mystery movie" line, precision-tooled, to give us a sense of the (amateur) detective's deductive abilities.

Poor Norman. Mother killed a victim in Marion who brought more than one sharp cookies on her trail...

...and, Lila is still working on the surmise wondering about Arbogast's fate now as much as Marion's. On the one hand, the "old woman told Arbogast something" -- but Lila is also sure that Arbogast 'WAS stopped."

Psycho isn't a whodunnit in the traditional sense, but the suspense comes from Lila (and Sam)'s desire to "find out what the hell happened." Where's Marion? Where's Arbogast? What is Norman's culpability as a possible bad guy(he's a possible killer to Lila and Sam at this point, more logical a suspect than Mrs. Bates?)

And...who IS that old lady?

--
CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Hitchcock said that he often put plot holes into his movies on purpose. so people would discuss them and go back to see the movie a second time. He spoke in an archaic manner of "the icebox trade," a married couple pulling chicken out of the icebox at home after seeing a movie and discussing it "over the icebox."

All that said...its hard for me to FIND plot holes in Psycho. Its a pretty airtight script.

A Hitchcock script WITH a big plothole : Frenzy. Richard Blaney is convicted for the necktie murders of Bob Rusk and evidently Rusk STOPS killing anybody during Blaney's super-fast trial...until Rusk DOES kill another victim while Blaney is in jail...and Blaney JUST HAPPENS to escape and enter Rusk's flat on the same night the dead victim is in Rusk's bed. All too coincidental. Not to mention, Blaney keeps telling the cops that Rusk IS the killer and it takes forever for them to investigate.

Psycho is more plausible and logical in its construction.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

bump