Two state solution. - Exodus (1961) Discussion

[–] MrPie7 15 years ago

There already ARE 2 states: Jordan and Israel. If it gets partitioned again then there will be THREE states. And 50 years later, after more attrocities by the "Palestinians", FOUR states, after yet ANOTHER partition. Until Israel is no longer viable and is absorbed by Jordan, Syria, and Egypt.

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[–] keirarts-1 15 years ago

I suport israel but lets face it 'palestinians' are not going to dissapear.
The israel vs palestine situaition is dumb on BOTH sides. ISraels hands not clean but morons like hamas seem to think firing rockets at civilians will help... need to get both sides to BACK OFF and stop other middle eastern country's (iran) from interfering.

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[–] johnmiller (3514) 8 months ago

Both Jews and Muslims revel in their mutual hatred. That is all either religion has.

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[–] johnmiller (3514) 8 months ago

Both Jews and Muslims revel in their mutual hatred. That is all either religion has.

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[–] doug7347 14 years ago

Yes, and the two states are Jordan and Israel.

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[–] friendoffilm 10 years ago

This:

Yes, and the two states are Jordan and Israel.

is wrong, doug7347. Israel took the West Bank from Jordan, Gaza Strip from Egypt, Arab East Jerusalem, the Sinai desert from Egypt, and the Golan Heights from Syria, during the six-day war, back in early June of 1967, after all those Arab countries posed their armies along Israel's border and were poised to attack Israel.

Eventually, Israel gave the Sinai Desert back to Egypt, back in 1979, when then-Egyptian Prime Minister Anwar Sadat and then-Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin signed a peace treaty. However, they're still occupying West Bank, Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem and Golan Heights. I'm not sure about Golan Heights, but, under the 1948 UN Partition, there was supposed to be a two-state solution: Israel, the independent, sovereign Jewish-majority nation-state, and an independent, sovereign Palestinian nation-state, alongside Israel, which would be comprised of West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem. (Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city and a shared Capitol between the two sovereign nation-states of Israel and Palestine.

That didn't happen, because the Arab states, along with the Palestinians, were quite obstructionist and rejected the partition out of hand, while Israel accepted it.

Jordan, which already has a Palestinian-majority population, is adamant about not taking any more Palestinians into their country, the other Arab states don't want them in their countries, and Israel can't absorb them for obvious reasons. Therefore, the Palestinians must have their own independent, sovereign nation-state alongside Israel, in West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. Israel must do her part by withdrawing from West Bank, Gaza Strip and EAst Jerusalem, and evacuate her troops and rightwing Israeli Jewish settlers out of those territories....now, because the whole occupation on the part of Israel of West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, including the building of settlements on those territories are illegal under international law, and, if Israel is to survive, they must withdraw from those territories...now.

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[–] heyuactor 13 years ago

Two states is the only solution. Maybe it will bring peace. It can't go on like this forever. But both sides have to compromise, somehow.

"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.

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[–] Douglas-Alan 10 years ago

You cannot compromise with a group that only lives to see you die. Period.

Shhh! Adults talking here!

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[–] mplo (2305) 8 months ago

It's occurring to me more and more that one big reason that there's no peace between Israel and the Palestinians is due to the persistent refusal of both Israel and the Palestinians, as well as the Arab States (which were also quite responsible, btw), to openly and squarely face up to their accountability in this whole debacle. Neither side has gotten past the finger-pointing stage, if one gets the drift. Facing up to accountability in conflict may seem like a small solution, but, it is indeed a very big, and very important one. If all of the people in the mid-east (i. e. the Arab states, the Palestinians in West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem), and Israel were to openly and squarely face up to their accountability in this whole debacle, the two-state solution could be and would be established. Good fences make good neighbors.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Foster (876) 9 months ago

Nope,,, There was never a state of Palestine, Why create one for a bunch of terrorists

The Jews fought the wars that created the State of Israel ,,, and they offered the Arabs, a portion but they wanted, demanded, it all

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[–] mplo (2305) 8 months ago

I agree with you 100%, keirarts-1!
The 2-state solution is the only safe, sane and sensible, peaceful and permanent solutionfor the decades-old Arab-Israeli debacle.

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[–] strntz (11101) 8 months ago

The "Palestinians" don't want two states either.

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[–] mplo (2305) 8 months ago

Well then, as true as that may be, the only solution would be for the International Community, the UN, and the UN Security Council to do is what could've and should've done after the 1967 Six Day war: Move in, force Israel to withdraw both her troops and her Rightwing Israeli Jewish settlers from West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, and implement the 2-state solution. If the rightwing Israeli Jewish settlers in West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem have to be dragged out of those territories and back into Israel proper kicking and screaming, so be it. Having said all of the above, I firmly stand by my belief that the 2-state solution (i. e. the Jewish State of Israel and the nascent Palestinian State alongside Israel, in West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem), is the only safe, sane and sensible solution to the decades-old Israeli-Arab debacle.

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[–] strntz (11101) 8 months ago

Country borders are not cast in stone - every country on Earth has had its borders move by conquest or defeat.

I firmly stand by my belief that the 2-state solution (i. e. the Jewish State of Israel and the nascent Palestinian State alongside Israel, in West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem), is the only safe, sane and sensible solution to the decades-old Israeli-Arab debacle.

I respectfully disagree - the Palestinians don't want a two state solution - they want Israel to not exist. They were offered a two state solution several times but summarily dismissed them. If the UN forced a two state solution, there would likely be *less* peace. This is as about one sided as it gets - the Jews want peace and the Arabs want to exterminate them.

All the Jews want is to be left alone - a simple concept that seems to elude people from the beginning of civilization. Historically, humanity has wanted to exterminate Jews for reasons that reasonable people just can't seem to understand.

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[–] mplo (2305) 8 months ago

So, what you're saying is that in order for Israel to survive as a sovereign nation-state, even in the event that they withdraw their troops and their rightwing Jewish settlers from the Palestinian territories (i. e. West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem), that in order to survive as a nation, Israel will have to remain a Jewish-majority sovereign nation-state under the barrel of the gun. That's entirely possible, but for Israel to continue to occupy West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem will not do them any good, and will guarantee their destruction, which could be a horrific blowback to Jews worldwide, including Israeli, European and American Jews.
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Having said all of the above, I believe that the time has come for the International Community, the UN and the UN Security Council to move in and enforce the 2-state solution, like they should've done decades ago, after the 1967 six day war.

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[–] strntz (11101) 8 months ago

Having said all of the above, I believe that the time has come for the International Community, the UN and the UN Security Council to move in and enforce the 2-state solution, like they should've done decades ago, after the 1967 six day war.

And then you have two states that aren't happy...

I think what you're overlooking is that the Palestinians don't want a two-state deal and they don't want peace. What they want is for a peaceful nation to stop existing even if it means their own destruction to achieve it. That's the mindset they're dealing with.

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[–] mplo (2305) 8 months ago

Neither the Israelis or the Palestinians are happy, but sometimes it's necessary to take the bull by the horns, force them to face up to their accountability in this whole decades Israeli-Arab debacle , and do what'sM necessary for the survival of both Israelis and Palestinians: Move in and evacuate Israelis rightwing Jewish settlers and troops out of West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, and enforce the two-state solution. If Israel's rightwing Jewish settlers have to be pulled out of the Palestinian territories kicking and screaming, well....so be it.

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[–] strntz (11101) 8 months ago

Neither the Israelis or the Palestinians are happy

The Jews *are* happy, as long as they're left alone.

The problem isn't the Jews, it's the Palestinians. They don't want what you're proposing. They just don't. The only thing a two state solution will do is to move terrorists closer to the Jews.

It's simple really - leave the effing Jews alone and the Middle East will have peace. All they want is that crappy piece of land on the Med and to be left alone.

What the Palestinians want is another holocaust and will do anything they can to achieve it, even if it means destroying the whole Middle East or the world to make it happen. The best thing the world can do is to let the cancer fester and not metastasize around the globe.

Now, if your unspoken plan is actually to let the Jews be exterminated bringing peace to the world (fair trade you may ask?), it still won't work. Islamists don't get along with anyone. They never have and they never will. Today it's the Jews, tomorrow it will be anyone else who doesn't succumb to their 5th century idea of a "civilization".

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[–] mplo (2305) 8 months ago

There's no guarantee that there won't be any more conflagrations in the event that the two-state solution is implemented, but at least, if Israel cedes Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem and West Bank, as well as control over the Occupied Territories' air space and water, as well as those territories, but at least Israel will at least be able to protect and defend a smaller area of land (israel proper itself) and its people, and will regain back the sympathy and support of many other countries in the world who broke ties with Israel after the Yom Kippur War, and after the Palestinian Intifada in WestBank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem.

The rightwing Israeli Jewish settlers should be evacuated, and the settlement buildings handed over to the Palestinians to do what they want with them. If the settlers in East Jerusalem and West Bank have to be dragged out of the Occupied areas kicking and screaming, so be it.

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[–] strntz (11101) 8 months ago

I don't think the Israelis are much concerned about any "sympathy and support" of anyone. If history has taught us anything, it's that Jews cannot rely on the world to stop a holocaust.

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[–] mplo (2305) 7 months ago

Many, if not most Jewish Israelis, are not happy with their government's continued occupation of West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, and their settlement/settler policies in West Bank and East Jerusalem. In fact, 80% of Israelis think that Netanyahu bears responsibility for this war, and are against his attempts to take the teeth out of the Israeli Supreme Court and to deprive the Israeli Supreme Court to act as it's supposed to act.

You may be right about the fact that Jews cannot rely upon the world to stop a Holocaust, but, many Jews, in their own way, have started to fight back. Moreover, the notion that no Jews fought back during the Holocaust back in the 1930's and 1940's is a myth, because plenty of Jews did fight back. Having said that, I recommend reading Harry Werner's book: "Fighting Back" You'd find it interesting.

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