I'd rather comment on the psychology of WHY Lucy often did what she did. She was a very repressed woman and talent. Yes, TALENT. Ricky's Latin male ego ensured that Lucy was kept in line and never allowed to foster her gifts. So, yes, she would resort to blackmail to overstep him. However, this was an action which kept her a frustrated talent, rather than a polished one.
This is where the comedy comes from. But without conflict, you don't have art.
As much as Lucy's actions backfired on her, she occasionally got to show her gifts. In "Ricky Loses His Voice", it takes a bedridden, sick Ricky to spawn Lucy into staging, directing and headlining the roaring '20s' show at the Tropicana. It isn't professionally done (thanks to honest writing), but it IS entertaining, albeit clumsy.
Later, in Hollywood, Lucy manages to gain Van Johnson's trust enough to have her fill in for his regular dancing partner. The amateur in her is displayed in her terrified entrance, but the talent in her is once again allowed to shine, if only for a few minutes.
In later episodes, Lucy would match Harpo Marx, gesture-for-gesture, and - in the LUCY/Desi Comedy Hour - share the stage successfully with Red Skelton.
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
True, I think Lucy is supposed to have had some talent. In addition to the episodes you've cited, I recall an early one where she took the place of an injured clown in Ricky's act at the last minute. Ricky and his band were auditioning for a group of TV executives, but only Lucy ended up with a contract offer from them.
Then there was a later episode in Hollywood where Lucy took a dummy of Ricky to an MGM party. Her plan to announce "Ricky" had taken ill and to continue "their" number solo fell apart, but Lucy didn't and wound up with an offer of a year's contract from Metro!
Lucy's problem, I think, is that she thinks she can do EVERYTHING. Before she ends up as the Bull in the Bullfight number, she suggests that she be allowed to sing the dramatic "Let Me Go Lover." She can barely get a sound out of her saxophone without hitting a bum note, but believes she's polished enough to join Ricky's band, Ethel's band, or her own (with Fred, Ethel and Little Ricky) and be the star soloist.
And it's the lengths to which she would go to try to prove her talent that I find off-putting. The Bullfight number was clearly intended to introduce Ricky to a national audience in the image that MGM was developing for him: a dashing handsome Latin personality but Lucy made him look like a fool just to get her shot in the spotlight. I think the episode makes clear that she's not just doing it to prove her talent, but to get back at Ricky for casting her in such a "nothing" part in the first place.
And I don't think there's any excuse for what she did with the furniture to scare the daylights out of Ricky and make him believe she'd been kidnapped or killed.
But, as you point out, in this show, there wouldn't be any comedy without the conflict between the two of them.
PS Speaking of Van Johnson, last week I saw part of an episode with Charles Boyer. Ricky was going through Lucy's past mishaps with celebrities to keep her away from Boyer and listed Johnson as one of her "victims." As you said, Lucy performed successfully with Johnson. What was the problem there?
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
The problem? Ricky's vanity. He'd rather recall Lucy's 15 minutes of fame as a blunder.
In Ricky's defense, he put up with a lot, which is why we don't hate either of them.
I agree with your highly astute comment that Lucy thought she could do everything. She couldn't. But what she could do was stymied by Ricky's ego and his uncalled for dismissal of the gifts she did possess.
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
Another problem was that Lucy, as much as she thought she wanted a career in show business, didn't want one without Ricky. She gives up her opportunity to get a show of her own (as the substitute clown) and the MGM year-long contract because it would mean being separated from Ricky and the Mertzes.
To be fair to Ricky, he makes it very clear (in that early episode where Lucy successfully substitutes for the clown) that he wants Lucy to be just a housewife and the mother of his children, and to the best of my recollection, Lucy never tries for a showbiz career unless it's in some way connected with Ricky.
Actually, there is one exception: I remember an episode of the LUCY/DESI COMEDY HOUR in which Lucy becomes a big hit as the Girl Friday on a TODAY type morning show. She auditions because she's tired of being "Just a Housewife," but quickly discovers that she misses being a housewife and her family.
Interestingly, I don't recall Ricky trying to stop Lucy from auditioning. (Maybe he didn't know about it?), but after she gets the job he doesn't try to force her to quit. Because of their conflicting schedules, Lucy and Ricky are only able to see each other briefly between catching their respective trains. In one of their meetings, Ricky tells Lucy "I haven't even been able to tell you how proud I am of you. The show's a big hit. You obviously have a lot of talent. I guess you were just wasting your time being a housewife." In response, Lucy bursts into tears and confesses that she wants to be a housewife again!
I think this is why audiences could like both characters, despite their sometimes selfish tendencies.
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
Yes, Lucy was a dreamer. Unlike Lucille Ball herself, Lucy Ricardo didn't possess the real drive, temperament or discipline to be a professional performer. Lucy Ricardo often forgot how happy she was with her upbringing and being a wife and mother. Ball's upbringing was quite harsh (very poor), and she was rarely happy in her private life. This is why, in part, she was such a control freak. Since she couldn't control Desi, or later, her children, she controlled everything on her shows. This is why she kept working YEARS beyond artistic inspiration (most of "The Lucy Show" dates terribly and pales considerably with ILL. The less said about "Here's Lucy" the better).
Lucy Cries Wolf: yes, Lucy at her most childish. I personally adore this ep, but it's a one-joke ep...a lot of build-up, without much story development.
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
I read Desi Arnaz's autobiography (A BOOK) several years ago, and I recall he related a story from Lucille Ball about her being so poor when she was first starting out that she couldn't afford to buy food. To survive, she would go into a crowded diner/restaurant during the breakfast shift and wait until a customer left his/her seat after leaving a tip. Lucille would then quickly slip into the seat, grab the tip and when the waiter/waitress came back, order a doughnut and coffee.
I think it's also worth noting that Lucy Ricardo wasn't just obsessed with being a star in show business, but THE star in everything she did. I recall an episode in which her women's club was having elections for officers. Lucy was certain she'd be nominated for some office but kept being passed over for other candidates. She'd then dismiss the office as insignificant to Ethel.
Poor Ethel, who was gracious and complimentary to each candidate as she was nominated, suddenly found herself selected by the outgoing president to be the new president of the club. Lucy, who couldn't stand that she wasn't nominated for any office (which I do think was nasty of the other ladies since they were holding the elections in Lucy's apartment!), bribed another member (the future "Carolyn Appleby"?) to nominate her and they ended up being co-presidents.
In a later episode when they live in CT (maybe the last one?), Lucy is the head of a committee for the town's commemoration of a Revolutionary War battle. Although Ethel does all the physical work (confirming that the new statue will be ready in time, calling all of Lucy's club members, and nailing the posters advertising the event to telephone poles), the first thing Lucy does when Ethel returns is grab the poster to check "her" billing on it and lay into Ethel for making her worry so much about whether Ethel was getting the work done and complaining that it's all too much work for her (Lucy)!
And I agree with you about Ball's subsequent series. Even as a kid, I never watched the reruns unless the episode featured a guest star I liked and sometimes not even then.
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
"I never watched the reruns unless the episode featured guest stars."
But wasn't that the problem in those last series? Every week, same script, different movie star.
The first season of "The Lucy Show" is the most
bearable. The kid actors were beautifully cast and a few episodes are classics (the TV antenna ep and the shower show). The rest are mediocre at best, and as the series progressed, Ball bellowed her lines off cue cards.
It is notably sad that as profoundly groundbreaking as ILL was, by 1970, Ball was a relic, still producing cardboard, unfunny retreads of her first series, while Mary Tyler Moore, Carroll O'Connor and Bea Arthur artiscally conquered CBS. At least Ball was smart enough to appreciate/work with/befriend Carol Burnett.
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
"But wasn't that the problem in those last series? Every week, same script, different movie star."
Yes, it was, along with Ball's by then ossified performing style, in which, as you've correctly observed, she tended to bark her lines off cue cards.
I'll take your word for it that the kids were beautifully cast in her first series. As I said, I really didn't watch it and I (thankfully!) barely remember it.
Ball undoubtedly stayed on long past her prime, but in fairness to her, I understand her work was always the most important thing to her, and CBS kept her working for too long. I wonder what the ratings for her shows were in her final years?
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
Oddly enough, the ratings for both "The Lucy Show" and most of ""Here's Lucy" were very strong. Lucy was a reliable household product like Wonder Bread.
Curiously, Fred Silverman, of CBS, voted to cancel "Here's Lucy" in 1970, but he didn't get his way. Ball was furious at Silverman and badmouthed him for the rest of her life. Lucy "retired" in 1974.
I had the pleasure of meeting Ball backstage in 1986 following the filming of her last turkey, "Life With Lucy", her atrocious final series. I had a VIP pass to the Soundstage and brought a "Vetamitavegeman" still. I approached a very tired 75 year-old Lucy and she signed it graciously, despite being readied for pickup shots. I cherish the autograph to this day.
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[email protected] (5507)
a year ago
Hi Gary, I recall that story you told from a while back. Very lucky to get to meet Lucy! Was that the time she asked if you spell Gary with one R like Gary Morton or two?
While I agree that 'The Lucy Show" was inferior to ILL, I have the first season B&W episodes and some are gems. A friend who knew I like Lucy bought me some of the later color episodes, sans Vivian Bagley, and they are barely watchable.
However, another friend really prefers "The Lucy Show" to ILL. She said she likes it better without the men (Ricky and Fred) and their "interference" as she calls it.
Regarding Lucy Ricardo, lots of good points have been made about the psychological make-up of Lucy. And it's true that she rarely tried anything apart from her show biz spouse. I know she was very much in love with Ricky, but does anyone wonder if some of his initial appeal was the fact that he WAS in show business when they met? Did Lucy have some dreams about Ricky being her ticket to stardom or at least a career in performing.
Some women do set their sights on certain professions when husband hunting. Remember in "An Officer and a Gentlemen", Paula and Lynette hit the social scene when a new crop of recruits came to town. Their goal was to marry a pilot.
Lynette even wails to her boyfriend (who dropped out of the Navy), "I want to marry a Navy pilot. I want to live my life overseas!!" She was furious that he took his DOR and planned to go home to work. She no longer wanted to marry him.
Back to ILL, in some instances Lucy's meddling incompetence is taken for comedy and Ricky benefits from it. I'm thinking of the episode when Ricky makes a film for a talent scout. Lucy and the Mertzes make their own film and Lucy edits them together.
The talent scout thought it was fantastic. He said that, "Most people would make a straight, dull musical but you added all those delightful touches of comedy."
In the Mr and Mrs. TV Show episode, it was Ricky who was unfair to Lucy. She was the one who was offered a show for Phipps Department Store. Ricky refused to include her and then only pretended to want her when Mr. Phipps wouldn't do the show without her.
Lucy's bit of revenge was intended only to upset Ricky. How was she to know that the " dress rehearsal" was actually the live show? In the case if this show, Lucy would have been an interesting addition. There was no real reason for her to sing at the breakfast table!
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
Yes, many people forget that there are Gary's AND Garrys! Remember the Garry Moore show which made Carol Burnett a star? So, when exhausted Lucy graciously asked me which way I spelled my name I replied, "the same as your husband (Gary Morton).
In 1992, I attended the gay pride parade when Elizabeth Montgomery co-hosted with Dick Sargent. Liz, too, inquired as to how I spelled my name. Two classy gals.
Today, both autographs remain on my desk.
Side note. In 1990, I saw Madonna shopping in a West Hollywood shop. She was very tiny, and surrounded by an entourage of male hangers-on. While never a big fan, I grabbed a piece of paper and a pen and asked her to sign it. She was snapping gum and didn't say a word as she scribbled an "M", followed by more illegible scribbling and walked away. A joke. People still howl when I show them Madonna's "autograph!"
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[email protected] (5507)
a year ago
Maybe she couldn't spell! lol
A lot of names have several spellings. My cousin's ex-husband was Robb and that's how I'd spell it when I wrote to her. She said that many people thought it was Rob. My sister Tracey gets livid when someone forgets the "e" in her name.
Even worse, my other sister is Suzanne and the teachers often wrote 'Susan' on her report card. Now those are two completely different names!
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
Back to ILL, in some instances Lucy's meddling incompetence is taken for comedy and Ricky benefits from it. I'm thinking of the episode when Ricky makes a film for a talent scout. Lucy and the Mertzes make their own film and Lucy edits them together."
"The talent scout thought it was fantastic. He said that, "Most people would make a straight, dull musical but you added all those delightful touches of comedy.
This is the problem I have with Lucy. Yes, she lucked out when the TV executive liked her "editing" of Ricky's musical variety show pilot, but her basic attitude was completely selfish. She didn't care what the potential harm to Ricky or his career was, so long as she got her moment in the spotlight...and for the record, in this case, the Mertzes were just as bad.
In the Mr and Mrs. TV Show episode, it was Ricky who was unfair to Lucy. She was the one who was offered a show for Phipps Department Store. Ricky refused to include her and then only pretended to want her when Mr. Phipps wouldn't do the show without her.
Lucy's bit of revenge was intended only to upset Ricky. How was she to know that the " dress rehearsal" was actually the live show? In the case if this show, Lucy would have been an interesting addition. There was no real reason for her to sing at the breakfast table!
Except that, based on several of Lucy's past performances (e.g., her "Waters of the Minetonka" duet with Ricky, her performance of "Sweet Adeline" in the barbershop Quartet number, etc.) Ricky had ample reason to believe that Lucy's participation would have been disastrous.
There may not have been any real reason for Lucy to sing at the breakfast table, except that Lucy undoubtedly would have insisted that she be able to participate in the singing, as Ricky, Fred and Ethel all had their musical moments.
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
Also, I think it's important to acknowledge that Lucy's selfishness/egomania isn't just confined to her showbiz aspirations. In Hollywood, she just HAS to have a Don Loper original dress, even though it costs $500.00! Even though she manages to get the dress for free by participating in the fashion show, when a guilt ridden Ricky leaves her a check to buy the dress back and Ethel tells Lucy to return it, she refuses, and there's every indication that she kept it and spent it on herself.
Not having learned her lesson in Hollywood, In Paris, Lucy goes on a fake hunger strike to get Ricky to cough up another $500.00 so she can get a Jacques Marcel original dress. This is after, she's promised Ricky that she'll only attend the fashion show to "look." After Ricky and Fred exact what I consider to be a reasonable comeuppance for Lucy, she somehow nags/harangues Ricky into buying her a Marcel original "no matter what it costs."
The bottom line is: Lucy never cares how hard Ricky has to work, or how many things he has to deny himself so long as she gets what she wants.
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
These are very notably true examples. Lucy and company are often ALL selfish.
What I find amusing is the way the Mertzes continually changed their alliances. When they were alone with Ricky, the three would be shaking their heads, Fred once offering, "have you ever thought've putting her in a large basket and leaving her on someone's doorstep?"
But when Lucy got the Mertzes alone, she would bring out the inner child in them to crash Ricky's show.
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
Great Point, Gary!
And I gotta admit, Lucy knew Fred and Ethel's "Achilles Heel" weaknesses by heart. She knew just where to strike to sway them to her side.
In the "Mr. and Mrs. TV Show" episode, for example, Ethel is all set to tell Ricky the TV executive Lucy spoke to at 21 when Lucy refuses to because Rick won't let her participate:
ETHEL: I'll tell you who it was,Ricky?
LUCY (slyly): Actually Ethel, we don't need Ricky. We can build the show around you and Fred and Me...
RICKY: Who was it Ethel?
Ethel (giggles): I-I forget!
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
Well, Corry, you say you aren't a fan of ILL
Could've fooled me!
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
It's weird isn't it?
I'm really not a fan. I don't generally watch the show and, as I said, I often find "Lucy Ricardo" to be very unlikable.
Still, some of my siblings liked it, and like many people, I grew up with it being on in our house fairly regularly. And I do admire Lucille Ball's genius, incredible work ethic and fearlessness in making people laugh, not to mention the very talented cast that supported her.
I've recently caught parts of the episodes I've been commenting on on the Pluto app. (ILL is a great show to watch for a few minutes if you want to wind down/relax after work, etc.)
Incidentally, for real fans of ILL, I recommend this app's "ILL Channel." I don't think I've yet caught a full episode, but they seem to be uncut and the prints/sound quality are excellent.
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[email protected] (5507)
a year ago
Yes, Lucy was selfish and single minded in her desire for a showbiz career. I saw Lucille Ball on a talk show when she was playing Lucy Carmichael. Different last name but still the same Lucy.
She described the Lucy character as being childish and selfish. They aren't good traits of course. But they were what made Lucy so funny.
I actually think Lucy would have been good if 'Mr. and Mrs. TV Show" became a regular show. Ricky wanted to do the show and he lied to Lucy to get her to do it. It didn't seem like he was too worried about her participation.
Most people probably won't remember this, but I think the episode was sort of based on a popular radio show of the time. Do you recall the famous newspaper woman Dorothy Kilgallen? Her husband was Richard Kollmar, a producer/director. They did a morning radio broadcast for a decade from their New York home. It was called "Breakfast with Dorothy and Dick". Neither were singers or performers like Ricky. But apparently their show was popular.
Way before my time, but I imagine it was a bit like some of the early morning shows that are on TV. It might have been like an early Regis and Kathie Lee, mostly chatting and some interesting tidbits, some current events, etc.
Lucy would've been perfect for that type of show. She was naturally gregarious and was eager to get face time on TV. She looked good and had a lot of personality. Of course, Lucy was probably thinking that the show would be a steppingstone to better things once a talent scout saw her!
Remember in Ricky's screen test she thought a Hollywood producer would see her and shout , "That face! That face! Get me that girl!"
Everything else you said is also true about Lucy. She HAD to have the designer dress, she had to have new furniture and those $50 hats. Lucy was never satisfied with anything for very long, like the Hollywood trip.
She was thrilled to be in Hollywood but when they arrived and she was not invited to go with Ricky to have lunch at the studio, she started sulking immediately.
"Here we are in Hollywood and I don't get to do anything!" boo hoo
There were dozens of things to do and she started complaining the second she didn't get her way.
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
In Europe, Lucy wants another expensive dress. Ricky reminds her of the Don Loper gown. Lucy replies, "That old thing?" No, Lucy wasn't happy for long.
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
Didn't Lucy turn out to be a big success on a TODAY type morning show with Paul Douglas on one of the lUCY-DESI shows?
It's been a long time since I've seen that one, but I recall that despite Lucy making a disastrous debut on the show (in typical "Lucy" fashion), the producer/TV exec came running out excitedly just after Paul Douglas fired her, to say that Lucy's participation were what the audience liked best about the show. After that debut she apparently relaxed and helped make the show a hit.
Lucy was often was selfish and a real whiner, though. That's one of the reasons I often don't like the character.
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[email protected] (5507)
a year ago
Yes, Gary's right. I haven't seen the Lucy/Desi Comedy Hour in years. But I recall this one (just vaguely).
Not to be too hard on Lucy, she was a good housewife. She was up and busy every morning making Ricky's breakfast. She had dinner on time and kept a neat house. But she WAS frustrated in wanting to achieve other goals, like a career in show biz.
I like to think that in years to come she would've finally fulfilled some of her goals. Maybe after little Ricky left for college and she had an empty nest, Lucy joined a local dinner theater group and got to act her heart out. I think for local groups, great talent isn't a prerequisite, just a desire to ham it up!
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Corryveckan45 (132)
a year ago
You're probably both right. I don't remember much about it, though I've always liked Paul Douglas, who was the guest star.
Wasn't she already taking charge of/playing showy roles in several local performances/events in the Connecticut episodes of ILL and Lucy/Desi?
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Garyandfilm (513)
a year ago
Yes, beginning g with Tallulag Bankhead. Lucy's life in Conneticut was satisyi g enough that she at least stopped trying to crash Ricky's shows at the club.
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[email protected] (5507)
a year ago
I remember reading that the Connecticut shows shifted focus from Lucy's show biz career. The show didn't even focus on Ricky's career either.
Lucy apparently had too much to keep her busy in the country to focus on "getting into the act" at the club.
The Tallulah Bankhead episode was a classic though!
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