The casting of Frank Sinatra to sing OLD MAN RIVER at the end of this movie is in unbelievable bad taste! I know he was the "golden boy" at the time, but come on ... this song is MEANT for a strong bass BLACK voice, afterall it is a song of the black dock workers on the Mississippi .... not a song of skinny Italian Americans in Hoboken! Surely there was a capable BLACK male singer on the MGM staff at the time. Shame on them for this travesity!
My mom saw this movie when it came out and said people laughed their heads off when Frank Sinatra came on. The consensus was the same as yours--it should be sung by a strong, black baritone. It's probably the biggest let down of an otherwise good movie. Of course, if you're a Sinatra fan ......
shareMy family and friends agreed, "Old Man River" is not supposed to be sung like a ballad aka Sinatra style, but to be belted out with heart.
When men come to like a sea-life, they are not fit to live on land...
–Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1776
I'm afraid I have to agree that OLD MAN RIVER should have been sung by a black performer. On the other hand, what they did get right in that mini salute to SHOW BOAT was casting Lena Horne as Julie and why didn't they cast Horne as Julie when they remade the film in 1951?
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It's pretty cheesy stuff, Sinatra up there.
Even Time Magazine belly-ached about how tasteless the
Sinatra thing was.
Pretty interesting when one considers this was TWENTY YEARS
BEFORE the civil rights movement. But it was released
just after WWII...people were now starting to really think
about what America really was...flaws and all...and how
man treated fellow man.
Another interesting point: "Clouds" was released around the
same time (1947) as "Gentleman's Agreement", the ground-
breaking film from Elia Kazan about anti semitism. Rich,
arrogant Sinatra, singing of the black man's pain in a
WHITE TUX ON WHITE CLOUDS is just beyond hilarious.
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I don't remember Horne talking about that in THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT III but I am glad that I am not the only one who felt she should have been cast in that part. I guess I can understand in the 50's that having her in that part would have been a shock but I still think Horne should have gotten that part. She was completely wasted during the time she under contract to MGM and this debacle was a prime example of that waste.
shareHmm. I'm not sure I completely agree with the comments made. Since Robeson was blacklisted it seems obvious that the producers were hoping for a well-known star to sing the song. There may have been a "capable black singer"--but Sinatra was famous, more than capable, and available.
My grandmother and I just watched this on a tape of TCM (from last summer) and seeing Frank was sort of a nice surprise. He sang it while he was still quite young. And for those of you who remember him singing it 'Sinatra style' --you'd be shocked to learn that he sings the song with no "Sinatra-izing" at all!!
As I'm reading the posts in this thread I'm noticing that many of you are relating your parents' or relatives' reactions. What about your OWN? Haven't you seen it yourselves? Seems catty to talk about something you've no experience with. (Maybe you do and you just aren't making that clear).
In anycase--maybe Sinatra was miscast, but his version is actually great. Also, the song is the memorable hit that it is because Robeson's singing TRANSCENDED race. Blacks and whites were moved by, sang along to, and remember with great fondness his beautiful rendition. Anyone who sings it with gusto--regardless of their race--is honoring his enormous talent. That much should be obvious.
P.S. Sinatra loved the music, thanks to Robeson, and probably understood his own odd casting. That's probably why he sang it with reverence and not in his usual style.
In anycase--maybe Sinatra was miscast, but his version is actually great. Also, the song is the memorable hit that it is because Robeson's singing TRANSCENDED race. Blacks and whites were moved by, sang along to, and remember with great fondness his beautiful rendition. Anyone who sings it with gusto--regardless of their race--is honoring his enormous talent. That much should be obvious.
QUOTE:Exactly. This discussion reminded me of Judy Garland's singing it in 1963 on her show. When I was watching it, I wasn't thinking black or white...I was thinking of the human experience.
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I recall reading that Judy asked her advisors at the time if she "could" sing "River." Of course Judy could sing the phone book. I think her question shows her reverence toward the song and the original performer. Judy had great respect for music and black artists.
QUOTE: This discussion reminded me of Judy Garland's singing it in 1963 on her show. When I was watching it, I wasn't thinking black or white...I was thinking of the human experience.
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I recall reading that Judy asked her advisors at the time if she "could" sing "River." Of course Judy could sing the phone book. I think her question shows her reverence toward the song and the original performer. Judy had great respect for music and black artists.
I think I remember reading that even though Lena was very talented and was under contract to MGM at the time, many states in the United States still had miscegenation laws on the books and having a black actress interact with a white actor would never have been allowed.
Lena was wonderful and gave a very public screen test in Clouds.
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You may be thinking of Lena Horne's comments about "Show Boat" on the cast recording (or the rare VHS copy) of her one-woman show that ran on Broadway in 1981. It was called "Lena Horne: The Lady and Her Music". She speaks at length about the disappointment of the studio casting her friend Ava Gardner as Julie instead. In fact, she noted that the film makers made Ava Gardner sit and listen to Lena singing her song from "Till the Clouds Roll By" to get the right feel for the song...talk about irony. They dubbed Ava anyway.
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The biggest complaint I have about Sinatra is not his race but his age...at this point he is too young and fancy free to be singing that song. As he got older he performed it much better....Also at the time this film was made they hadnt yet located William Warfield (who i think did the best Old Man River ever). The simple truth was they didnt have a big enough Black male star to perform the song as a film ending showstopper....
It is not our abilities that show who we truly are...it is our choices
But could Lena have passed for white?
shareBut could Lena have passed for white?
shareI think the most frustrating point with casting comes with the "A Fine Romance" segment at the end of the film. Albeit, the song is difficult to sing with octive jumps, but the best recorded version (in my opinion) is Ella Fitzgerald's cover on her album "Ella sings the Jerome Kern Songbook," the perfect voice for perfect music. Despite racial issues and MGM casting, Virginia O'Brien's voice isn't up to par with what the song should and could sound like. If only they had contacted Ella...
share"A Fine Romance" was sung originally by Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers in "Swing Time". It was written specifically for them to sing. It was also a perfect number for Virginia O'Brien's deadpan comedy and delivery. She does the number just as much justice as Astaire and Rogers did.
shareJeepers, I think everybody here missed the point. At the end of the movie we see Kern going to Hollywood for the 1st time. He is awed by the huge orchestra, the opulent sets, the grand production, and--yes--Frank Sinatra doing a negro hymn. It's not miscasting at all. It shows in a subtle way that Hollywood was altering his original intent.
Now recall the scene with Sally where Kern tells her something like, "You don't matter; I don't matter; nobody matters. It's all for the good of the show." So obviously Kern wasn't going to object to Hollywood's glam version of his work, because it was for "the good of the show".
I thought it was a perfect ending--albeit uncharacteristically sobering & ironic for a 1940s musical--to see that tragic theme return in the finale. Please tell me I'm not the ONLY ONE who realized this?! :o The Sinatra appearance is what made the movie for me, sort of like the grand punchline.
"The casting of Frank Sinatra to sing OLD MAN RIVER at the end of this movie is in unbelievable bad taste!"
Amen.
And the fact that he does a "negro" accent on top of everything, doesn' help either.
I don't think it was his fault, though.
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Sinatra sang Old Man River with a full voice and it was good.
The whining 'politically correct' comments here are enough to make anyone choke.
Yes, I think Sinatra did a fine rendition of "Ol' Man River", too.
If the other posters would remember: In the early portion of the movie in the "Show Boat" montage of songs segment: A gentleman name Caleb Peterson, with the Frieda Shaw's Ethiopian chorus and the MGM chorus also sang "Ol' Man River", also very well.
Oh...oh....maybe they should'nt have used the MGM chorus, huh........I'm joking, I'm joking.
They all claim the movie is "miscast" but their only real problem is with a white man singing a song that was written for a black man in the last 2 minutes of a 2 1/4 hour movie.
Don't hide behind "miscasting". Just say that it offends your liberal sensibilities.
I guess MGM could've dug up Kenneth Spencer, who had appeared in BATAAN and CABIN IN THE SKY. He had an imposing and built a substantial career in Europe from the late 40's until his death sometime in the 60's. In fact, Spencer appeared as "Joe" in the 1946 Broadway revival of SHOW BOAT.
"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."
The issue is that the song should have been sung by a stereotypical Black man like Sammy Davis, Jr, Little Richard, Michael Jackson or Prince. Mike Tyson is Black and he would be good singing this song, too.
shareThe casting of Frank Sinatra to sing "Ol' Man River" had nothing to do with race. He was cast because he was Frank Sinatra and a movie star. Note that ALL the performers in the finale were stars who were under contract to MGM at the time. That was the point of the finale. Dazzle the audience with all these stars.
shareYes thanks to hulu for presenting this movie - I have heard that I should see it for a long time.
And well stated. It's frustrating that only two posters in this long thread got the point of the movie's final staging!