MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > Should We Invade israel?

Should We Invade israel?


Remember Reagan and Thatcher called Mandela a "terrorist", "communist", same thing said about MLK Jr... You can't be a trendy justice warrior and just wait until your BFF tweets it. It's genocide. Even a likudee would call it apartheid.

They have violated International Law numerous times. United Nations Human Rights Council has condemned israel at least 50 times... The United Nations. Every other country NOT called the US. If you don't know history, just look at the death count. 99.9% of deaths are Palestinian civilians.

Sorry, I don't buy the "god gave us this" crap.. Palestinians lived in the British Mandate of Palestine for at least 800 years as the consistent majority of people in the territory. During the war between the Zionist Settlements and the Arabs from 1947–1949, over 500 Palestinian towns became depopulated as 720,000 Palestinians fled from the conflict. Some fled in response to massacres were perpetrated by Jewish militias to secure the exodus of the Palestinian People and many others fled from rumors as to Jewish brutality. With these Palestinians no longer in their homes, Israel passed a number of laws that allowed for the transfer of all “unoccupied territory” to the Israeli government and numerous empty villages were bulldozed. Palestinians assert that Israel should not be allowed to benefit from seizing former Palestinian homes and villages. They don't even have a right to practice their religion - The Palestinians have numerous holy sites that pertain to their religions as well in the British Mandate of Palestine. Jerusalem holds Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock Shrine, the third most holy sites in all of Islam. Palestinians have been confined to refugee camps (especially in Lebanon and Syria) and occasionally attacked in violent pogroms by their Arab neighbors (like Black September in 1970, the attack on Sabra and Shatila in 1982, and the attacks Nahr El-Bared and Ain el-Halwa in 2007). 400,000 Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait in 1991 over a diplomatic spat between the Kuwaiti Emir and Yasser Arafat. Never mind how more Palestinians have now died in the Syrian Civil War than the last three Gazan Wars.

reply

I see a lot of time, effort, and consideration was put into your thread, BHF. I will concede I am only aware of so much on this topic but will provide my best answer possible. I know you're a very political person. I respect that and will say that you have given much food for thought. Here is my take on the matter:

In the past hundred years war has seen carpet bombing of Europe, Atom Bombs dropped on Japan and Napalm used in Vietnam. In the past two hundred years the indigenous people of the United States of America, Australia and Africa have been displaced by immigrants from the outside world who had no claim to the land whatsoever.

The Arabs are tribal and have warred with each other for millennia, in 1948, 1967 and 1973 they conspired to act together and attack the State of Israel they lost all of these wars. Most of the indigenous Jews in these Arab countries were displaced and settled in Israel. Wars create refugees; it is part of the whole diabolical process.

The world has never been an overly fair place. The absolutely regrettable plight of the Palestinian people could have been solved, many times over, in the past fifty years if the Arab potentates had used a small percentage of their oil income to ensure that each and every Palestinian was housed and had financial stability. They could build Dubai out of the desert but have allowed the Palestinians to remain refugees; as it suited their political ends in maintaining the status quo and keeping their kings and princes in power.

Do I think Israel needs to be held accountable? yes
Do I think its neighbors need to be held accountable? yes
Do I feel Israel could do a better job policing itself? yes
Do I think Israel has a right to exist? yes
Do I think Palestine should exist? yes
Do I like the Hamas? no
Do I believe it's fair to the Palestinians trying to work with the Israelites? no
Should Israel have nuclear weapons, which they do have? I don't know how to answer that
Should the Arabs countries do more to help, especially Saudi Arabia? yes
Do I like that Israel is a western style country with democratic institutions and that need to be protected? yes
Do I think the ruling Orthodox Jews have too much say-so in Israeli politics? yes
Do I think what I said above is saying bad things about them? no, but more representation would be nice
Do I think it's fair to Conservative and Liberal Jews? no
Do these remarks make me anti-Israel or otherwise? no
Do these remarks make me an aggressor towards Middle Easterners not Israeli? no
Should more be done diplomatically and not militarily? perhaps
Is the United Nations doing enough? They can only do so much at a time
Should Israel be invaded? no, too much is at stake. Pulling out would be a more humane option. Even then, it is too risky given all the dynamics of foreign alliances and all it curtails.

I don't have the answers but I am glad we are able to discuss this in the most meaningful way possible. I am trying to have an open mind here. I'll listen and hear what else you may have to say. Talking about these things are never easy. I'm glad we could be honest with each other.

~~/o/

reply

I appreciate your sincere reply... Either people are serious about peace, or not, and just pick sides like basketball teams.. You've listed many examples, and its all true. I don't feel we're responsible for what people before us did, but I think we have a small responsibility to co-operate and at least try to talk, and try to make things a little better... Any improvement is progress. We've made a business out of killing, which means a strong propaganda arm, because there wasn't anyone who went to let's say Vietnam with a grudge. They went because they had to.

I kinda did it out of anger, because it seems like every other day, there's a new invasion idea.. When we run out of countries, will we see "Should We Invade Taco Bell?"

I'm consistently anti-war.. Every single war since WWII has been a lie. "Gulf of Tonkin" "WMD's", or in Kuwait, when the ambassador's daughter lied about "The Iraqi soldiers were killing babies in incubators" - the lies just keep going on, and it doesn't matter to most people when the truth comes out. The power knows the strength of first impressions, and what is one to do YEARS after the incident? It's too late, and people aren't as in tune as they would have been.

reply

I was just gonna leave a flippant response like we should invade everybody! America f*ck yeah! Seriously though, I’d be totally down with invading Taco Bell right now.
Yesterday we watched Pirates of Somalia, good movie. I learned that Somalia is known as a Nation of Poets, and they held the written word in such high regard that wars were sometimes ended with just poetry. It makes sense to me that words can have much more power behind them than weapons, and bring much more understanding. I know I’m a dreamer but I love the idea of this. We could put down our weapons and have poetry debates. If only...

reply

You're not consistently anti-war. You just singled out WWII as legitimate. That was the worst one.

reply

It was the worst one, but if Country A attacks Country B, you won't just sit there....

reply

Where will the Jews, whose ancestors were expelled from England in the 13th century, persecuted by Spain in the 15th century, chased out of Russia in the 19th century, and sent to death camps in German-occupied Europe in the 1940s, be permitted to settle and feel safe from oppression if we 'invade Israel'?

I support a two-state solution. I abhor the present Israeli government. But I am not prepared to sit back and watch a new generation of Jews terrorised, persecuted and murdered, without a safe haven for them to escape to.

And yes, I know the answer is to end global anti-Semitism, but can you guarantee that?

reply

Try seasteading, like libertarians.

reply