MovieChat Forums > Lethal Weapon (1987) Discussion > Okay, so were the 80s were even more hom...

Okay, so were the 80s were even more homophobic than I'd thought?

posted 8 years ago by sugar_n_spice
114 replies | jump to latest

I was born in the early 90s, so I missed out on the apparently magical time that was the 80s (it seems like a lot of pop culture now is nostalgic for that decade). However, I do know that HIV / AIDS was a huge (and for way too long, poorly-researched) issue back then, and that the victims of the disease were often ignorantly categorized as gay, heroin-addicted, or black (with some overlap) - but heavy emphasis on the first category. But from what I know of the 80s - and even before and afterward, really - most of the ire directed at "the gays" particularly singled out gay and bisexual men (and you had it even worse if you were a gay man of color). It would seem that people didn't mind lesbians as much. Pop culture - particularly the straight men / characters in it - often fetishizes lesbian relationships, viewing them as "hot."

"So what does any of this have to do with Lethal Weapon?" you might ask.

I bring this up because I watched the movie tonight, after I hadn't seen it for a while. First time I'd watched it was in my teens, and I usually put it on at least once a year. It's a good background movie. Anyway, this time... a line jumped out at me.

When Murtaugh and Riggs are at the shooting range, hashing out whether Dixie could've killed Amanda Hunsaker, Murtaugh says something to the effect of, "So up till now we've assumed that the person in bed with Amanda the night she jumped was a man, but suppose it was a woman?" Then Riggs replies, "Okay. disgusting, but okay."

Ummmm... wtf was this line doing in the movie? It's said so nonchalantly that I never noticed till tonight, but now I'm surprised I could've missed something so pointlessly hateful. Because seriously, what was the purpose of Riggs randomly calling two women in bed together "disgusting"? To show that Riggs strongly disliked (to put it mildly) lesbians? What's the point of having Riggs strongly dislike lesbians? How does that have any meaningful effect on his character or the plot?

All a line like that did was serve to alienate potential members of the audience. I'm a straight woman, but after hearing that line I tried to imagine what how I would've felt if I were a lesbian or bisexual woman in the theater when this movie came out. How I would've felt by a soon-to-be beloved action hero randomly calling me disgusting.

I can't be the only person to be shocked by how hateful and out-of-place this line is.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

One thing that people your age don't seem to understand and probably never will understand is that back in the 80s political correctness had barely started. Back then you could make fun of something and not hate it. Watch a few more 80s movies and you'll see a lot of that. The problem was that there's a huge gulf in there, a gray area where it got very hard to tell whether something was good natured ribbing or actually hateful.

After a while political correctness gained strength and poking fun at something, even if there was no hate behind it, became taboo.

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[–] club-shred 8 years ago

One thing that people your age don't seem to understand and probably never will understand is that back in the 80s political correctness had barely started. Back then you could make fun of something and not hate it. Watch a few more 80s movies and you'll see a lot of that. The problem was that there's a huge gulf in there, a gray area where it got very hard to tell whether something was good natured ribbing or actually hateful.

After a while political correctness gained strength and poking fun at something, even if there was no hate behind it, became taboo.

This pretty much sums it up. There was once a time when candyass pansies didn't "tweet" or "facebook" something that some meany-meany-mean-pants said. Nowadays, you get crucified for "hate". It's rather laughable.

You'll work on... "We were making too much money".

[–] freddie1768 (18) 4 years ago

The fact is that homosexuals were hated in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and even still are by many prejudiced bigots today. There is a reason that LGBT people have so many hate crimes committed against them. Lesbians were deemed as "disgusting dykes," and you would lose your career, your child custody rights, your reputation, basically everything for being outed as a homosexual back then. The stigma and hatred against LGBT people and homosexuality is still prevalent today; it is absurd to act like these prejudices weren't even more prevalent in the 80s and therefore deemed as the society's "norm."

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] residentevil6901 8 years ago

If someone thinks two gays are disgusting there is nothing wrong with that nor is there if they say something to that affect out loud. Just because some of the world is liberal and PC doesn't mean everyone has to be. The liberal my way or the highway doesn't mean everyone is that way or ever will be that way. If it's hurtful or rude etc etc you know you can ignore it. Also saying something like that doesn't mean homophobic.

[–] willywonkasrevenge 7 years ago

When Murtaugh and Riggs are at the shooting range, hashing out whether Dixie could've killed Amanda Hunsaker, Murtaugh says something to the effect of, "So up till now we've assumed that the person in bed with Amanda the night she jumped was a man, but suppose it was a woman?" Then Riggs replies, "Okay. disgusting, but okay."

You've misquoted the line. When you read the actual lines from the movie, it has a totally different connotation.

Riggs: "Right. Up until now, we assumed it was a man."
Murtaugh: "OK, suppose it was Dixie."
Riggs: "OK. Disgusting, but OK."

Riggs was obviously referring to gutter trash Rosie as the disgusting part of that equation, not it being another woman. If you'll recall, Riggs treated her like garbage when they first met: "All dressed up and no one to blow."

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[–] freddie1768 (18) 4 years ago

You are wrong. Gibson is a known homophobe, and the line in the movie was CLEARLY intended to state that the notion of homosexual women together was "disgusting." This is well-known and the movie is often criticized for this blatant homophobia today. While many homophobes and much of society today still deem 2 women or 2 men behaving intimately and romantically together as "disgusting," these prejudices were even more common in the 80s. That is why it was simply acceptable to put homophobic lines in movies and in every day conversations back then.

So Riggs was sexist AND homophobic. Even less surprising.

[–] Maverikk 7 years ago

Yeah, it was a great time when everybody wasn't looking to be offended. Can't stand the crybabies who want to be a victim in life, and will search every place they can to find an excuse, even if they have to invent it.

[–] residentevil6901 7 years ago

Exactly and you will have some people getting offended by what you just said. Lol big time crybabies.

[–] velvetjoneslives 7 years ago

Sorry, but this question is incredibly naive. It was a different time with different standards. This is no different than people who complain about Tom Sawyer and slavery or pretty much any works before the 1960s that contain elements of segregation. It is not shocking or out-of-place at all to someone who was very much alive and working in the real world at the time.

[–] atd8vii (592) 6 years ago

Yeah, the 80's was all sorts of un PC, which has strangely has taken on an endearing element with a lot of people nowadays. It's hip to nostalgically reference the good as well has how inappropriate and gritty things were back then. It's like the 80's can do no wrong.

Another thing is that Lethal Weapon was written by Shane Black who much like Tarantino has a sense of self indulgence with his writing and you get the impression that he writes this insulting and offensive stuff just because he can hides behind the guise of just being a screen writer. But then again every writer does that too, haha.

[–] freddie1768 (18) 4 years ago

Lets not forget the fact that gay women and gay men were deemed as "disgusting queers" by the vast majority of society at the time. Really, given the time period, the homophobic line in the movie isn't shocking at all.

[–] Cheepshooter (672) 6 years ago

I lived through every day of the 80s. In the mainstream, it was homophobic AF. However, that line was out of place even then. The prevailing schoolyard mindset was "two dudes is gross, but two girls is hot." Maybe that started in the mid 90s, though. I think that line was Mel's influence creeping in. Or, maybe, it was just that particular woman he disliked, not girl-girl in general.

[–] Beagle200 (18) 4 years ago

Lesbians were NOT anymore accepted, and to say the people did “not mind lesbians as much as gay men” is 100% false. Talking from personal experience here. ALL homosexuality was deemed taboo, dirty, and deeply stigmatized during the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, and lesbians were seen just as much as degenerate perverts and freaks as gay men were. Lesbians faced the same stigma and hatred as gay men, and were forced to live closeted lives. You simply have seen more gay jokes directed at gay men because society was and is male-based, but the line in Lethal Weapon is a good example of the same homophobic stigmas that targeted lesbians. I promise that lesbians faced the same homophobia, lack of acceptance, and hatred as gay men. Please do not think otherwise.

Ellen Degeneres, for example, came out in the 90s. Her show was cancelled, she was labeled “Ellen Degenerate,” and she was out of work. Her career over, she was shunned by society and deemed as a disgusting freak. Nobody would hire or come near her because they did not want to associate with a known “queer.” Sodomy laws in the United States criminalized lesbians and gay men for same sex activity, but not heterosexuals for the same activities, until 2003. Police officers would target, harass, and abuse lesbians, lesbians would be denied jobs and child custody rights, and they were just as alienated from society as their gay brothers.

Furthermore, please do not confuse fetishization with acceptance. While some straight men get turned on by “girls kissing girls” in porno, they can only handle it when it is ideal, ultra-sexual, gay-for-pay, “hot” actresses. (“I’m okay with lesbians as long as they are both hot.”) The same homophobic men who fetishize and dehumanize lesbians as sex objects are also the first ones to hate, mock, harass, abuse, rape, and kill lesbians in real life because they are “disgusting dykes” who need to be “fixed.” This is why lesbian rape statistics are so disproportionately high.

[–] Beagle200 (18) 4 years ago

~ Meanwhile, many straight women actually love and even fetishize gay men while hating lesbians because they are “gross.” At the end of the day, all homophobes will harass and gag at the sight of any same-sex couple, male or female, even if it’s a homophobic man who watches lesbian porn when nobody is watching. (Because in fake porn it’s somehow “different).

Finally, that brings me to today. Lesbians are not anymore accepted than gay men, and they face the SAME homophobia as gay men. They also just get a lot more homophobia in the form of sexual harassment and sexual abuse. They still get called “disgusting” by homophobes, still get slurs shouted at them for holding hands with another girl, still have hate crimes being committed against them, still get the same stigma and judgment from society as gay men. They also just get homophobia in the form of sexual abuse for being female— straight men dehumanizing them as sex objects in porn but hating them in real life and anywhere else BUT porn, telling lesbians that they could “turn them straight” and that they can “fix” them. This is not being “more accepted” in any way, shape, or form.

Cis white gay men have been the face of the LGBT movement since forever, and therefore have gotten the most recognition and acceptance in society today. Unfortunately, the mere word “lesbian” is still deeply.

The “two dudes gross, two girls hot” mind see you are talking about at the time was perhaps the mindset of immature high school boys— it was NOT the mindset of society. Homosexuality was degenerate, “disgusting,” and completely foreign, and homophobes gagged at the sight of a same-sex couple, male OR female, behaving in a romantic or sexual way together. Considering that lesbians are still constantly deemed “gross,” “sick,” and “disgusting” by homophones today, and that lesbians scenes are regularly censored in certain airline / stations in America today, really doesn’t make any of this hard to see or understand.

With that being said, immature boys in high school during this time would still label a lesbian as “gross” and a “freak”— being gay wasn’t the norm then. It isn’t the norm TODAY and lesbians still get a TON of harassment and bullying and are made fun of in schools for being gay today... it was even worse back in the day. Lesbians had boys sexually harassing and abusing them for their sexuality, no doubt, but they had just as many people (often the SAME people) calling them “gayyy,” “Gross,” and a “disgusting queer.” Trust me on this. I’m talking from experience on this. Being gay was equally unaccepted and scorned back then, whether you were a boy or a girl. The same can still be said today, even if society is progressing in its acceptance of LGBT people.

[–] Beagle200 (18) 4 years ago

That being said, the mindset of “two women = gross” is nothing out of the ordinary and is even expected homophobia. ESPECIALLY for the 80s.

Many times, I have been called a “disgusting dyke” just for holding hands with another girl in public. I have been told by straight men that they could “turn me straight,” and me and my girlfriend were sexually assaulted for being “disgusting dykes.”

My point is, lesbians are not and never have been deemed more acceptable by society. Even the homophobes who fetishize us in porn (which is homophobia in itself) think we are “disgusting dykes” when we aren’t in porn, and treat us as such.

[–] freddie1768 (18) 4 years ago

YES. As another soul who has lived through the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, I can testify that everything you have said is ABSOLUTELY true and correct, @Beagle200.

Adding onto this-- Indeed, gay male porn is the most popular porn category for straight women, who often are sickened by the thought of intimacy between two women.

And indeed, the homophobic men who watch "fake" lesbian porn are often the same ones who are disgusted and enraged by actual gay women-- who hate "gross and disgusting dykes" in real life!

[–] freddie1768 (18) 4 years ago

Nah, you are confusing the mindsets of some homophobic straight boys with the mindset of society.

I lived through the 80s, as well as the 50s, 60s, and 70s. The prevailing mindset was "Homosexuals = gross." Even hypocritical men who eventually began watching "fake" lesbian porn deemed homosexual women as sick and immoral "queers."

In fact, lets not forget the fact that gay women and gay men alike were deemed and shunned as "disgusting queers" by the VAST majority of society at the time.

Really, given the time period, the homophobic line in the movie isn't shocking or out of place at all. At the time, it was simply expected.