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Aphrodite's Replies
alienzen is right. Just using inflation doesn’t really show you the true box office, because there are other things to consider. Not just how much more the dollar is worth now. Back when Gone With the Wind came out, you could go see a movie for roughly $0.25. If you try to convert that same price to today’s value, you come up with $4.48, according to [url]https://www.calculator.net/inflation-calculator.htm[/url] Nowadays you’re looking at anywhere from $10-$16 or more for a regular ticket. And then there’s 3D and IMAX, which is even more expensive to see. The math doesn’t add up. The rate of inflation doesn’t apply to current theatre prices. It’s expensive as hell to see a movie nowadays, especially if you buy any food from the concession.
Also, if you live in a smaller town or city, you can likely see a movie far cheaper than someone in a bigger city with a larger population. There’s also discounts to take into consideration, as many places charge less for children and seniors, not to mention early shows before noon or discount days (like Tuesday specials, where I’m from where you get to see a movie for around $7 or $8 on Tuesdays. It used to be around $5 like 10 or less years ago).
The population also grew exponentially over the last several decades. Just imagine, the worldwide population back when Gone with the Wind came out, was roughly 2.3 billion people, give or take. In just 80 years, we more than tripled in population.
Really the best way to see how popular a movie is, is to forget about the dollar value all together, and just look at how many people bought tickets. That tells you how many people put their butts in seats to actually watch the movie, and does away with discount prices or IMAX ticket sales. TV and streaming uses viewer #’s. Interesting that movies don’t.
Here’s an interesting piece I read about how inaccurate it is to use inflation when discussing movies. [url]https://www.usi.edu/media/3655032/How-the-MPA-Miscalculates.pdf[/url]
Yeah, it’s on the Marvel wiki. Not sure if they got that info from the comics, but Thanos is the only living Titan. Or well...was. He didn’t seem all that speedy.
But he is the only one who could wield the gauntlet and stones with not as much damage as anyone else. He got burned a bit after using it once, but didn’t really get badly damaged until he destroyed the stones.
Maybe it wasn’t as noticeable on Thanos, but there was still damage, you can even see the burns on his neck when he turns his head after he does the snap.
Thanos was a Titan, a superior alien race. And we could see how powerful he was when he kicked Hulk’s ass. It says this on the Marvel Wiki:
[quote]Titans are much larger than humans, and their physical constitution is strong enough to wield the Infinity Stones without strain and easily overpower and severely injure beings as strong as Vision, Hulk, and Thor, as displayed by Thanos. Titans, despite their large size, possess incredible superhuman speed and reflexes that allows them to easily outmaneuver and overwhelm not only other beings of similar sizes, such as Hulk but also even smaller and highly agile individuals as well, such as Loki, Drax the Destroyer, Gamora, and Iron Man in his Mark L Armor. They are also able to react swiftly to high-speed projectiles.
They are invulnerable to many forms of damage, as even Gamora has stated that killing Thanos may not be possible, and the only known weapon with the power to kill Thanos was Stormbreaker, the most powerful weapon forged from Uru, and only if the axe was powered to the maximum and the attack was lethal.[/quote]
Hulk was affected by gamma rays, and we’ve scene how much damage he can take and survive. So he just got a burned arm but he’s otherwise fine.
But Tony is just a human. He’s a genius, but not superhuman. That’s why he couldn’t take the power from the stones. As we saw in Guardians of the Galaxy, the Power stone nearly killed Peter, until the other Guardians shared the burden of the stone. That one girl who tried to grab the power stone on that one planet got not got killed, but caused a huge explosion. You can’t just hold the stones on their own, which is why the gauntlet is needed. But the power is possesses can harm you. And they’ve shown that in the movies.
Re-watch Thanos’ first snap. You can see that the gauntlet and his arm and part of his neck are burned.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXavNm6y8OE[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeuDcriBAZ8[/url]
I don’t know about the comics, as I’ve never read them. But in the movies, they showed that it did harm the user if used. Also, Tony was a mere mortal man, not a superhuman being, which is why he couldn’t take the power like Thanos or Bruce did. Thanos looked even worse because he used it twice.
IMO= in my opinion
CBM= comic book movie
Oh and yes discussing scenarios and things are fine. But sometimes (most times) people just take it way too far and they can’t accept what the studio and the directors and everyone else is saying. They can’t enjoy what they see because they want to put logic into everything. Sometimes you can’t apply real life logic to movies and stuff like that. There has to be some suspension of disbelief. Otherwise, what’s the point in even watching movies like this, or any other movies dealing with weird shit? I mean if you watch a zombie movie, you have to let yourself kind of go with it, because if you put science into everything and apply logic and say that this or that couldn’t happen....well then why even watch a zombie movie? Some logic and science and stuff is okay, but other times it’s just like....just enjoy the movie and believe what the filmmakers are telling you.
I beg to differ. If future Nebula is still alive, then obviously past Nebula didn’t die. She’s said herself before that she’s been ripped apart and put back together multiple times by Thanos. She told Gamora how much she’s been tortured before, She may not be fully a reboot, but probably 95% of her is. And with future Nebula taking her out, she would know better than anyone how to subdue herself, and not kill herself. She just needed old Nebula to stay out of the way, to stop Thanos from getting the stones.
As I said, in order for Steve to stay in his timeline, then yes he would have to let a whole lot of bad shit happen. Knowing that in the end, the universe gets saved because they beat Thanos. If Thanos won, everyone would die. And not just on Earth....everywhere else. The trillions of life beyond Earth would cease.
Have you not heard of the butterfly effect? Change one thing and everything else changes. Maybe when Steve went back to return the stones, he saw another picture on Peggy’s desk showing an older Steve with her, that way knowing he was meant to go back and be with her. Or maybe 1970’s Steve met up with 2019 Steve, knowing where and when he’d be there because he did all that stuff, and told Steve he and Peggy end up together and they kept it a secret. The fact that Steve remained in the same timeline, shows that he didn’t change the past. He couldn’t. Otherwise the future would have changed from his meddling in the past, and it would have created a bunch of different timelines. It didn’t. There were 2 Steve’s all along. The frozen Steve, that would be unfrozen for Avengers, and the one that went back in time to be with Peggy. That was Steve’s fate. So yes, Steve sat back and let bad shit happen, because he had to. He hated it for sure, but he had to let that happen. Otherwise he would change the future and things would be a hell of a lot different.
Do we know for sure that Nebula died though? I mean she’s mostly machine. She’s cut off her own hand and survived falling thousands of feet. She also basically melted off her hand to get the Power stone. She’s literally been torn apart into pieces and tortured by Thanos and survived. After all, future Nebula would know where to shoot herself to make sure she doesn’t die, but is out of commission for the fight. Maybe there’s a deleted scene we’ll see on the Blu Ray.
Also, I don’t think it’s against his character at all. Steve understood needing to make sacrifices, he understood that to save millions that others had to die. He didn’t like it but he understood it.
And Civil War didn’t happen because Steve was unwilling to step back. It happened because Steve knew that this council would be ineffective. Look at Avengers 1 for instance, the council wanted to blow up New York and drop a nuke on it instead of let the Avengers do what they do and save millions. That was a crap decision. As he said in Civil War, this council would tell them where and when they could help people, and when to stand down. Steve didn’t like that scenario, not because he wasn’t a team player but because he knows that humans have fault. He saw how Hydra infiltrated Shield, how they were all manipulated. And he didn’t like some higher up council (who could be manipulated) telling them what they could and couldn’t do. Where they could go, who they can help. Sure they needed accountability, but Tony was wrong and went about it wrong, and even he understood that in the end.
But back to Steve going back to the past. As I said, it was his fate, he was always meant to go back. As they’ve said since the beginning, Steve was a man out of time, he didn’t belong in 2019. He belonged back in 1945, with Peggy. He was always meant to go back and be with her. Maybe Bucky will go back too...in another movie. But Steve seeing his picture on Peggy’s desk, I think that clicked something for him. Maybe then he realized he was always her husband, he just didn’t know it. As I said before, maybe Peggy and that Steve kept it from him...kept it a secret, knowing that he would soon realize what he was meant to do.
As with any movie though, there has to be some suspension of disbelief. If you pick apart and try and disprove what they did, and say how they were wrong and created multiple timelines and this and that....well...I’d rather believe that it was their fate.
Okay so if you say that them going to the past already puts them in different timelines, then that would mean everything they did in the movie created multiple timelines either way, because they all went to 4 different timelines, and then Steve went back which would have created even more multiple timelines because he went back and returned the stones. But it didn’t. Otherwise a whole lot of weird shit would have gone down with all these multiple timelines.
And again, as I said, Steve didn’t change the past because he couldn’t. Because if he did, then the future would have changed. Think about it. If Steve stopped hydra in the past, they wouldn’t have tortured Bucky. If Bucky wasn’t tortured and made into an assasin, he would t have killed Tony’s parents. If he didn’t kill the Starks, then Tony’s future might have gone in a different direction. If Tony never became the tech genius and billionaire that he was, he never would have become Iron Man. His father would still be running the company. Stark Industries might not have become the weapons manufacturers they were in the first movie. That would mean Tony never would have been in that convoy that got blown up, that lead to him being taken hostage, that lead to him building the suit, etc. He only became Iron Man because of his circumstances in the first movie. If Iron Man never existed, The Avengers never would have existed. At least not the team that we know them as. If you delve deeper, you could probably find ways that it affects everyone in the movie. Take out Hydra early, and all the dominos would have fallen. It’s the butterfly effect.
So yeah, to have everything happen the way it does, for all of them to come together, for them to defeat Thanos, Steve had to let everything happen as he knew them to happen in his future.
I think you’re wrong. Steve didn’t use the quantum real m to meet back with them in their timeline....he showed up at the spot he knew they’d be, because that’s where he was at the time in 2019 with Sam, Bucky and Bruce. Steve was always meant to be with Peggy, he fulfilled his destiny as you will by going back in time and being with her. I wrote this out in another thread, but basically Steve had to let things fall into a certain place to lead them to where they were in his future. And he did that because he knew it would all work out. Hydra would be defeated, Bucky would get his life back, Tony would become a tech genius and the start of the Avengers, etc. He had to let everything happen knowing that was the way to defeat Thanos. As Doctor Strange said, out of the 15 million or whatever outcomes he saw, there was only one in which Thanos was defeated.
And yes changing the past would still lead to them being where they are...as in Thanos would still be a threat. But had Steve tinkered with the past, would the Avengers have even existed? Would the Avengers have been there to defeat Thanos? If Hydra was defeated in the 40’s and Bucky didn’t become an assasin and kill Tony’s parents, would Tony have become the man he did? And fucked up as it is, Steve had to let everything happen, knowing that was the one future in which Thanos was defeated and trillions of livings things in the universe were saved.
But remember what Doctor Strange said. Out of the millions of outcomes he saw, there was only one in which they win. Only one set of circumstances where everything lead to that moment, that they would win. There is only one in which Thanos was defeated.
Yes, Steve could have changed a lot of stuff in the past, but changing anything would have led to a different future. Like the butterfly effect. If he was always meant to go back and be with Peggy, then that was his future. But if he took the knowledge he had and then changed stuff so that Bucky was saved, Tony’s parents didn’t die, Hydra was shut down from the start, etc....that all would have led to a different outcome one in which Thanos would have won.
The fact that Steve showed up in the same spot, in the same timeline that we saw, that Bucky, Sam and Bruce were waiting for him, there is only one way in which he would have been in their timeline, and that’s if he was always meant to go back in time and be with Peggy. Otherwise, he would have created an alternate reality...an alternate timeline in which he and Peggy get married, and the other is where Peggy and him didn’t get together and she married someone else and died and so on. For Steve to be in their timeline, it shows that was his future. So yes, we have to believe that for in order for that future to happen, Steve had to let everything in the past happen, even all the bad stuff, because he knew it would turn out okay in the end. He saved trillions of all living things in the universe by not messing with the Earthly past.
If Steve really was Peggy’s unseen husband all this time, then that means he went back in time to be with Peggy with the knowledge that everything works out in the future. What I mean is, yes he let Hydra infiltrate, he let Bucky be brainwashed and used as a weapon, he let Tony’s parents die and all those other things. The thing is though, he had to. In order to keep the future as the same one he left, he had to let all the dominos fall as they did, because that’s the future he came from. And he also knows it all works out. Tony becomes this tech genius, who becomes the start of the Avengers...that might not have happened had his parents lived. Bucky was brainwashed and tortured, but he also knows that Bucky makes it out alive in one piece, gets deprogrammed and is finally...happy. Hydra infiltrates Shield, but he also knows hydra gets taken down. Basically, Steve let’s everything happen because he knows if he changes anything, then his future won’t be the same, and things wouldn’t work out like they did. If Tony didn’t become the tech genius he does, would the Avengers ever have existed? Who would have stopped Thanos then? Step on that butterfly and it changes everything. So Steve had to leave it alone. For his future to exist to where he comes back to be with Peggy, he had to do nothing. So he was always Peggy’s husband, we just didn’t know it. Maybe he realized it when he went back to the 70s with Tony, and knew that’s what really happens. He and Peggy were always meant to be, and he fulfilled that destiny. I don’t know, just a thought.
Another thought as well. If Steve really was Peggy’s unseen husband all this time, meaning that Cap was always going to go back in time and marry Peggy, and they kept it a secret from frozen-Steve...for anyone who says that Cap just sat there and let Hydra infiltrate Shield, or did nothing as Bucky was brainwashed....the thing is, Steve knew how everything ended. He knew that Hydra would get taken down. He knew that Bucky would come out of it alive and whole again. He had already experienced the future, so as hard as it was for him not to intervene, he knew it would all work out. He also knew if he did step in and change things, the future would change, and there might be a different outcome if he did. So instead, he let everything lay out like it was supposed to, as he experienced them and read about to catch up on his 70 year sleep, knowing that in the end they win, they beat Thanos, they stop hydra, Bucky gets deprogrammed and is able to have a life, etc.
Just a thought.
I also think that because Vision was essentially the mind stone, either way he couldn’t be brought back. Also, Bruce said he tried to bring back Black Widow, but he couldn’t. So I think it shows that anyone who died before the snap, is really gone. Which means half the Asgardians, Loki, Vision, etc. are really dead. Although with Loki, since he got his hands on the Tessaract again in 2012 and vanished who knows....he could show up again somehow.
As for Gamora, depending on what Tony wished for, Gamora could either have died like Thanos and his minions (meaning that she truly is gone), or she could have gone back to her time...like go back to 2014. I guess it depends on how specific Tony was in his wish. But I’m sure we’ll find out what happens to Gamora in the next Guardians movie, since Peter is on a mission to find her.
Just to finish off what I was saying, before I got cut off by the reply cap. I know in the comics Sam also becomes Captain America. So does Bucky though. But I know with Bucky it also becomes a bit problematic because he was brainwashed and used as a weapon for so long. He killed a lot of people, and people probably wouldn’t be so accepting of him being the new Cap when he was an assasin and also killed Tony’s parents. Bucky is just now starting to be his own man and get his life back together. He’s had so little time to just be...him. I mean it was only that little bit in Wakanda, where they deprogrammed him, and then he gets turned to dust. Bucky has had very little time to be like the old Bucky. But yeah he probably does want to retire too. And Bucky also seemed to agree with letting Sam take the shield. It’s just....I always thought it would be him next as Cap....then later on Sam.
Well technically (and I’ve read some thoughts from other people as well), we never did find out who Peggy married. We just know she married someone who Cap saved the day he rescued Bucky and the other Commandos from Red Skull. But we never find out who. Some people say maybe Steve fulfilled his destiny, after seeing his picture on Peggy’s desk in the 70s. Maybe he remembered or knew that she married him, as in....what happened is what was always meant to happen. He goes back in time, marries Peggy and they have 70 beautiful years together.
The old Cap is still frozen in the ice. The 2019 Cap is the one who goes back in time, so that old Cap is still frozen and will still be part of the future and be unfrozen when the Avengers come together.
Although there is one odd part....like if Steve always married Peggy, and they had kids, that would mean that Steve kind of hooks up with his....great niece? A bit screwy, but I can forget that happened. Ha ha. I was really hoping that there would be an alternate universe or something where Steve got to be with Peggy. So whatever the case, I’m happy with that, even if the logistics are kind of wonky.
As for the hammer, oh he definitely moved the hammer before. But I always kind of had a feeling that Steve kind of faked it. He tried to look like he couldn’t lift it, and maybe he kind of screwed up a bit when he nudged it and Thor saw, but maybe he did t want to bruise Thor’s ego by showing he could lift it. But man, the moment Thor was nearly killed, I knew it was coming....and then it happened and my theatre exploded in applause and screams and cheers. You could be right too, that maybe all his other experiences made him worthy. But I think he was worthy before too.
As for Sam, oh don’t get me wrong I’m fine with him being chosen. I just always thought they were kind of foreshadowing Bucky being the next Cap. After all, Bucky has used the shield multiple times in the movies. I can’t remember Sam ever handling it.
Yup. Either just cancel the show, or literally BEG Crawford to come back. There’s no other way the show will survive. The sad thing is, I think Crawford might even take the job back, if they begged him. He loved the show, cast and crew, and wanted to see it continue. The fact so many people defended him and lost their jobs because of it showed the friendships he had. But it might also be a sore subject for him to come back. Especially having to work with people who didn’t defend him or have his back, or who sided with Wayans. Simply put, they fired the wrong man. Wayans hated the show and wanted it canceled. Crawford wanted to see it go on. It could easily do 5 or more seasons with him. I don’t know if Crawford would come back, after the way he was treated, and the character assasination he had to endure from Wayans.
Jet Li’s health is failing, have you seen him lately? He looks nothing like he did before. Not sure about the other actors. Don’t know if Chris Rock would want to do tv again. And I don’t think Pesci ever did tv, he’s a movie actor. Might not want to do tv, especially one like Lethal Weapon. A lot of movie actors are drawn to networks like HBO or Netflix, not sure if network tv would even be appealing to most. It would have to be a really appealing case.