So the Capital building has just been destroyed by bombs. So they put all the important people left in the Whitehouse? Don't you think maybe that might be the next target? Don't you think it more likely that they'd lock down and evacuate DC and move the New President and family away from DC?
shareNot necessarily. The White House bunker is extremely well-built, I imagine. The crap that's under the White House would blow our minds.
No, I think the White House would be the safest place to be after something like that. Not hiding with one's tail between their legs.
The sky over DC is now filled with jet fighters, the National Guard is on the streets, the Secret Service has turned the WH into a fort and the military is geared up to go in if necessary. Foe the moment the WH is safe. If the terrorists had nukes they would have used them.
shareFortunately the people whose job it is to protect the president do not make assumptions such as that.
shareYes, but the problem is that he did not remain in the bunker. At first they almost dragged him there and, a few minutes later, he magically materialized in a toilet in the upper White House (we know he was there because the speechwriter 100% did not have bunker clearance - the whole scene with the speechwriter was a plot device to have them awkwardly introduced)).
How/why did he get there when there was supposed to be a security risk? And what happened to his secret service guard? From that moment on he was back and forth between bunker and upper White House, for no apparent reason.
Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.share
Yes, but the problem is that he did not remain in the bunker. At first they almost dragged him there and, a few minutes later, he magically materialized in a toilet in the upper White House (we know he was there because the speechwriter 100% did not have bunker clearance - the whole scene with the speechwriter was a plot device to have them awkwardly introduced)).
Also, the whole scene where he is walking around OUTSIDE the White House to "get some air" is unbelievable. Then his wife joins him out there in the open? That would never happen in a lockdown situation. He would either be in the underground bunker or at an undisclosed, secure site.
shareThat's right; an "undisclosed, secure site" that very few people know about. Our government must not disclose secrets like that, it would be a huge security problem. The Designated Survivor would be very well protected and that means his actual location could not be disclosed.
shareThe new president went to the bunker, but his family went up to the residence which he visited for a change of clothes. I immediately thought that everyone should be underground.
shareDo you know where it is that the designated survivor is hidden? I did not think so. You don't know because it is a secret. They don't want anyone to know where it is because no where is totally safe. The Whitehouse is not safe because everyone knows where it is.
In the show, they just open the door and see the destruction. That is how stupid the show is. In reality, a designated survivor would be much better protected.
Sam-953-169285,
You would be surprised what is and isn't considered safe and protected in reality.
I am not saying this show is perfect but he is clearly at the FBI Office in Washington. That is a pretty secure location (bullet resistant glass, bomb blast doors, heavily armed Federal Agents, etc.) and if no one knows he is there but some Agents it is pretty undisclosed too. A lot of security is smoke and mirrors and that no one knows about it or where it is.
It looks like you and a lot of other posters here think the show is illogical and stupid. But it also appears that you guys are making this assessment based off of what you think should happen or where you personally think people should be based on nothing. Unless you are a Secret Service Agent or someone who worked on the continuity of government plan you really do not know anything and can't really say what is or isn't stupid or illogical. As I also pointed out below in this thread, people are forgetting what happened on 9/11. The first episode of this show pretty much followed that day and people thought that was stupid. Well in happened in real life.
Yes, the show is fiction and supposed to be an entertaining drama, but I have a little bit of experience in this area and it is not as stupid as you think it is.
What was so ridiculous about it?
shareReally? In this day and age, the entire government of the United States being blown up at one time? In a comic book, maybe.
shareHave you ever watched a State of the Union address? They do, in fact, have just about the entire membership of the House, Senate, Supreme Court, the President, Vice President, and all but one of the Cabinet secretaries in one room, along with the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Whether or not it's realistic for some group or nation to be able to sneak bombs into the Capitol is one thing, but yes, if they were able to do so, they could pretty much wipe out the senior levels of our government in one shot.
Yeah, tell me all the times it has happened. Anywhere.
shareHe just told you, at every State of the Union adress. Now, I don't know enough about your politics to know if it is true or not, but that's beside the point. You are asking for something which you were already given. If you disagree with his answer, say so.
shareI was talking about his last sentence and was asking for one instance of the entire government leadership being wiped out anywhere in the world. It's never happened. That's why some people thought the premise was too far-fetched.
shareIf every American thinks like that then it will happen. If the possibility is ignored then that creates the opportunity.
Sure, it has not happened but if you think it can't happen then it will happen. There are probably enough Americans that trust it won't happen to make it likely it will.
The level of governmental attendance at the State of the Unioin is very close to total. It has not been 100% attended in probably 100 years or so, but that is not for lack of invitation. Invitations go out to ensure the possibility of 100% attendance sans the Designated Survivor, which is a very real person.
Is it ever going to happen that terrorist are able to strike the Capitol Building in such a way as to wipe out the Joint Chiefs, Scotus, Congress, the Sentat, the VP, and the President? Probably not. That does not mean that the opportunity does not exist annually.
The premise of the show is that terrorism managed to pull off the ultimate attack. That level of security failure is unlikely to ever happen, that does not make it impossible though.
rgibson-20,
You are either a troll, not very bright, or have a personal problem with someone who is doing the show. Sorry their script got bought and yours didn't.
MGurlea, I think rgibson-20's comment is intelligent. If you want to use the brain you have, just look at the other comments about the logical problems with the show. People that are quick to say things like "troll" and "not very bright" are desperate for something more relevant to say. And you will respond with an insult for me, I expect it. I will be impressed if you have anything to say that is not.
shareSam-953-169285,
I am not sure why I am responding to such an old post and a mean one, but here goes. The night I posted this a couple weeks back I noticed rgibson-20 had several posts telling people that the show sucked and not to watch it. A few other posters even wrote him back asking why he had such a personal problem with the show. So hence why I wrote troll because of the several posts saying the show sucked. Also, hence why I wrote personal problem because he was telling people not to watch the show. I don't like a lot of things but I have never then gone online and posted over and over again telling people not to watch something.
Now the not very bright part. I posted that because in his original postings rgibson-20 is saying that a decapitation strike on the U.S. Government was quote, "ridiculous" and would quote, "In this day and age...only happen in a comic book." Any adult who only halfway pays attention to the news for the past 15 years knows that these statements are ridiculous. The person saying them has to either be trolling to get a rise out of others, not very intelligent or informed, or crazy. So take your pick. The whole premise of the show is based on a real thing so the U.S. Government really thinks that it can happen in today's day and age and is not ridiculous. Which two posts up I see you are agreeing with me and not rgibson-20.
As for your comment, I am not sure why you are so hostile and insulting toward me? Are you friends with rgibson-20? You have come to a thread where I posted over a week prior and there were not half of these comments then. You also probably did not see all the "do not watch this terrible show" comments over and over again that night from rgibson-20 like I did at the time. Also, it looks like rgibson-20 has changed his argument many days later once it was pointed out to him that he was wrong. Again, that is a typical troll tactic. That is why I try to stick to posting on relatively new threads. Once they get past a few days with no replies or not many I don't post on them. Because people can go back and edit things or other comments can come in that were not there in the original postings of the conversation. Case in point, this thread, half of these comments where not there when I posted, the guy I responded to later changed his argument, so now the whole thread reads entirely differently compared to the night I posted.
I hope that clears things up for you. And I don't really care if you are impressed or not.
It has never happened and the likelihood is slim but it is most definitely possible. That's why the idea of the designated survivor was implemented in the first place, just in case.
shareIt can happen, but only via a well-organized inside job, as are we most likely about to discover later on. There is just for a jihadist group (or any group) to smuggle explosives in the Capitol, the White House, the DoD etc without substantial inside help. Now, I do not know how well the Capitol's sewers are guarded though. Are they guarded 24/7? Even if that's the case you still have to buy or take out these guards.
Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.share
No spoiler, but a scenario similar to one you suggest was presented in Sherlock (Season III, Episode One "The Empty Hearse"); it is a plausible situation.
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You know it was a good day if you did not have to bite anyone.
Gus B., mini dachshund
The best protection against an attack such as that is the threat of a certain counter-strike. Of course, it does seem strange that there has not been more of a counter-strike following 9/11.
shareRemember 9/11 when they moved everyone out of the Capitol because they thought that would next? It's always been an issue.
share" In a comic book, maybe."
Or a weekly television show made for the same reason as a comic book - entertainment.
Tom Clancy's 1996 novel "Executive Orders" has a pilot fly a 747 into the Capitol during the State of the Union speech, with Vice-President Jack Ryan still in the tunnel coming in from the House office building.
While it has never happened, almost everyone does get together on this particular occasion and it is a possibility. Fiction need not be only about what has already happened - it can be about what's possible and then wonder, "What if?"
[deleted]
The bunker might be safe, but they also were using the private residence for instance and other above ground rooms. Yes I am sure that the military and every law enforcement agency is on high alert and on duty. But they haven't even figured out how the capital was destroyed, they can't be sure the White House is secure. I mean they rushed him there seemingly minutes after the attack. Maybe after a few days it would make sense, but taking Airforce 1 to another undisclosed bunker would make more sense.
shareThe smoke from the attack was still rising strong when he opened the window and looked at it. That just could not happen in reality since they absolutely would not hide a designated survivor anywhere that vulnerable.
shareI expect this is the kind of show that's going to have a lot of plot holes.
The question is do you enjoy the ride?
I enjoyed the first episode. And especially the character of Kirkman. Though I have the feeling it's going to go off into la-la conspiracy land which is where I'd get off.
I think the last we should expect is Kirkman's involvement in the bombing, since he didn't know beforehand that he was the designated survivor. If Kirkman turns out to be behind it then the BSmeter will hit the roof.
Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.share
He did know he was the designated survivor. That's why he was sitting in a secure room away from the Capital. It's just that no one ever expects that there is going to be a bombing.
shareI think Korios is saying the it wasn't until a few hours before the State of the Union address that Kirkman knew about the designated survivor. The scene in the kitchen where Kirkman and his wife are disagreeing in what to do because he was going to be fired, Kirkman answers the phone, listens, and asks, "What's a 'designated servivor'?"
So, if Kirkman is behind the bombing, he would have to be very well connected to have make his selection to be the designated survivor become so or the writers are implicating Kirkman for a cheap plot twist.
select * from earth.population where clue > 0;
No rows selected.
They don't tell us how he was selected. If someone wanted to get control of our nation and the world then they would need to do much more than to get their guy as the president but it would be a necessary step in a much, much bigger plot. I wonder if that is where they are going with this show.
share"Though I have the feeling it's going to go off into la-la conspiracy land which is where I'd get off."
I have that feeling also, that's it someone in our own government who did this for political reasons. That's when I might also turn it off. I hate it when a show starts out really good (think Lost and Person of Interest) and then strays away from what made it great with meandering plot lines and conspiracy stuff.
"Vulgarity is no substitute for wit".
Yeah Lost got lost in foolishness for me too but I gave up on Person of Interest in the pilot. I almost did not watch this show because it seems like the type of thing I don't enjoy. I will give up on it when they have used up all their creativity and get desperate for something, anything.
shareGiven that that's exactly what happened on 9/11, yes, they probably would take him to Andrews and put him on Air Force One.
But as plot holes go, it's relatively minor.
Personally, I'm trying to figure out who the "Iranian ambassador" was. We don't have diplomatic relations with Iran. They don't have an embassy in DC, or an ambassador.
good question
maybe this is supposed to take place in a time when we have reestablished relations with iran
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have a zIpPiTy doo dah day!............
Nah, the writers just don't want us to have brains. They want us to have less intelligence than they do. They want to insult intelligent people so they don't watch.
shareI did not know that so I looked it up ...
United States Washington, D.C. Vacant
[deleted]
It becomes a matter of the highest degree of security within the closest proximity. No, the PResident would not be taken to wander the halls of the residence at the White House. However, if he was only blocks away from the White House when this went down (which it appears he was), the White House's below-ground bunjkers would almost certainly be where he would be taken, especially since they still had to get him sworn in before he was "officially" President.
Unfortunately, they can't have Kirkman interact with many characters if they have him in the PEOC while everyone else is still left only where their security clearance would allow. So the writers extended the security of the bunker to include the entirety of the WH. That's not the worst of writerly offenses.
As for 9/11, yes, they did get President Bush onto AF1 ASAP. On 9/11 this was the most secure way to handle things. First, he was down in Florida, a very long way from bunkers. Second, AF1 was flanked by fighter jets, while {all} air traffic across the United States was grounded. This meant anything not AF1 or AF2 (or in support of them) was subject to being shot out of the sky. Since planes were being used to target facilities, putting the President in the air made loads of sense.
Getting Kirkman sworn in, then on Marine 1 to go to Andrews to get on Air Force 1 exposes him for a much longer period than getting him to the swearing in and then simply taking him downstairs to what is probably one of th four or five most secure bunkers in the world.
I left my brain on the kitchen table and watched this show.
Loved it. We have to ignore the little inconsistencies and just go with the flow. Enjoy the show - don't think too drastically about it.
Peace man. 😊
Pure escapism...I'm also guilty.
As opposed to smuggling in a bomb, I'm wondering about dropping a volumetric bomb, maybe inertly from ten, twelve miles up, waking it up at 1 mile from impact, slight course corrections...I know the air over DC is heavily monitored, but if you towed a glider up to 15 miles, let it go, it's got no heat signature (not much of a signature at all, really), it glides, loses some altitude, lets loose at the right moment....oddly, this seems more feasible than smuggling in a big damn bomb into Congress.
There's my two coppers.
If I did know of any other possibility then I wouldn't tell anyone, I don't want the enemy to know how to do it.
shareI'm not sure I'd call this a plot hole. Early on, when he and his wife are in the car, we hear one of the Secret Service guys say that the White House is "secure." We don't know what exactly that means, but the show only has forty minutes to tell us this initial story. Just as (a minor example) we don't see him take a full minute when he asks for a moment of silence for the fallen, we have to make a leap here or there that when the story says something is what it is (such as that they've temporarily managed to clear the White House of threats), that's it.
Regarding why they take him to the White House, he is only briefly in the upper rooms before he's taken to the bunker. In that brief time, though, he does something extremely important--he is sworn in. Note that as this happens, someone carefully documents the moment on his cell phone. This is a moment of brief interregnum and if it really happened, those orchestrating the EMS reaction would have to weigh the possible dangers of taking the new President (briefly) to the White House for this all-important ceremony with the necessity of sending a clear message that the torch had been officially and legitimately passed, and our government was back in business.
The Historical Meow http://thesnowleopard.net
Yeah ... I was thinking, even tho that seems to be something trolls don't want us to do, that the person taking the video probably uploaed it to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube as well as the official White House page and etc., etc. It's just one of those things we should all take for granted as being done.
Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.
be kind, rewind...
Yeah ... I was thinking, even tho that seems to be something trolls don't want us to do, that the person taking the video probably uploaed it to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube as well as the official White House page and etc., etc. It's just one of those things we should all take for granted as being done.
upsygrad,
First off, it's NOT plot hole. Please look up what a plot hole is.
Are you old enough to remember 9/11? I am and I also have a better understanding than most of the public does about what the Government did that day.
The Secret Service, for the first and only time ever, instituted the continuity of government plan. They did run and grab key Government officials that morning and stashed them in secret and secure places. Even landing a helicopter on The Capitol grounds to pick a few key people up and whisk them away. However, The Vice President, National Security Advisor, and others stayed at the White House in the PEOC. Exactly where they went in this show. The only reason why The President wasn't there was because he was in Florida at the time of the attacks. Then there were threats made against Air Force One and supposedly people were looking for it so that is why they flew around the country for the rest of the day. First going to Louisiana after leaving Florida and then winding up in a nuclear bunker on Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska. Still later that same night of 9/11 The President returned to the White House and slept upstairs in the residence. And remember for months afterward there was uncertainty and everyone was bracing for another attack at any second.
I understand what you are saying and yes it might make sense to evacuate all these people to other places. But there is also needing to look like the Government is still in power and in control. President Bush wanted to get back to the White House ASAP on 9/11 for this reason. So you can't fault the show when it is pretty much following reality of what happened on 9/11.
Still later that same night of 9/11 The President returned to the White House and slept upstairs in the residence. And remember for months afterward there was uncertainty and everyone was bracing for another attack at any second.
I understand what you are saying and yes it might make sense to evacuate all these people to other places. But there is also needing to look like the Government is still in power and in control. President Bush wanted to get back to the White House ASAP on 9/11 for this reason. So you can't fault the show when it is pretty much following reality of what happened on 9/11.