I still can't believe that Batman had sex with a goddamn teenager. They demoralized the character on BvS, now this *beep* Where is the moral ground of this character?
shareMoral?
You're full of it lol
It's a damn movie, get a *beep* life.
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Seems someone cant get past the fact women are sexual and have their own wants and needs when it comes to sex. I pity the poor woman that has to put up with a repressed *beep* like you giving it to her once or twice every couple of months. Missionary only of course.
share[deleted]
look at all these imbeciles arguing about their imaginary characters having sex and people call me insane
shareBut Barbara is the one who initiates, and she's in college, so a late teenager or young 20s, by which time most people start having sex anyway. Yes, it's shocking, because he's so much older and she's the daughter of one of his most trusted associates. And no, I wouldn't want to see Batgirl and Batman be together in the mainstream comics for a long period. But it actually makes sense that she might have a complicated attraction to go along with her admiration of him. Plus, they were trying to create something in the new first half that could be as provocative and bold as the second half, a.k.a. the material from the original graphic novel. I thought her conflicted feelings/comments about it afterwards were fair.
My only problems with it after the initial shock faded were 1) we really didn't delve into Bruce's feelings about it at all. Sure, it's in character for Batman to be distant to his sidekicks and difficult for his girlfriends. But he should talk to somebody, like Alfred, about the fact that she's young, that he's supposed to be her mentor, that she's Jim's daughter, that he's not sure how to behave around her now, etc.
2) they didn't really connect their new material to the original material. Batman comforting Jim in the Joker's carnival, and the "throw the book" scene have extra dimensions if we know that Batman slept with his daughter, but these went unexplored. Likewise, you'd think the personal vendetta would be higher for Batman if the joker crippled his lover, and so the Batman laughing scene at the end--which is almost completely out of character in the original comic anyway--becomes even weirder since he seems to be letting everything slide.
But Barbara is the one who initiates, and she's in college, so a late teenager or young 20s, by which time most people start having sex anyway.By the time we meet Barbara in this movie, she has probably been out of college for a while; she is working for the Gotham City Library. Not that her physical age is necessarily the main issue.
I'm pretty sure barbara is in college
Batgirl was created because congress thought Adam west Batman was gay for running around at night with a little boy in short shorts.
So enter batgirl
Bruce timm already told us, in batman beyond that batgirl and batman were together when she was in college. Robin found out and ran away to become nightwing.
can you imagine?
an imaginary menagerie manager
imagining managing an imaginary menagerie?
Keep in mind that this movie is not connected to Batman: The Animated Series. And the story that it adapts pre-dates the show by several years. In this it seems clear to me that Barbara has been out of college for several years.
By the way, it was the original Batwoman, Kathy Kane, and the first Bat-girl, Betty Kane, who were (possibly) created as a response to allegations that Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson were in an inappropriate relationship.
"If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker
Thank you, Dr Frederic 'if it exists, I can tell you why it's gay' Wertham. I think that had a genuinely sh!tty effect on the comicbook business that lasts to this day, because instead of having more female characters like Wonder Woman developing and evolving naturally over time, we had distaff counterparts like Batgirl and Supergirl and Hawkgirl just unceremoniously jammed into the mix ostensibly to notch down the number of child readers being turned into homicidal flamers And just like this movie, that doesn't mean it was done well.
I give f*@k zero. It's like giving no f*@ks, only without the calories.share
But Wonder Woman/Diana dresses like a wh*re on a Czech street. Like Batman said, on first encounter, "Aren't you a bit underdressed?" (figuratively).Why doesn't Superman wear a belly shirt and hot pants? He apparently doesn't need clothing as protection. ---Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!
shareThe Amazons live on a tropical island, do you expect themselves to wrap themselves up from head to toe?
"If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker
Are you saying that's the reason?
Supergirl, Powergirl, Huntress... just to name a few, all from too warm zones?
---
Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!
The others are irrelevant, the only one we were discussing was Wonder Woman who's costume isn't all that different than it was when she first debuted (keeping in mind that her creator, William Moulton Marston, was a feminist). She comes from a society of warrior women who did not possess a great degree of modesty and liked to keep their limbs free of encumbrance. I would argue that her current costume is a bit more conservative than what she was wearing in the Bronze Age of comics.
"If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker
I only used Wonder Woman because Donnee above started about her... evolving etc.
Could have been any of the others too.
---
Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!
Actually, William Moulton Marston was super heavy into BDSM.
Wonder Woman's old kryponite was having her hands tied by men.
She can punch through a wall, but if she had her hands bound by a man she was helpless.
Try reading William Moulton Marston's original run now and try not to see it.
can you imagine?
an imaginary menagerie manager
imagining managing an imaginary menagerie?
Marston also effectively had two wives; his views on women and feminism were--complicated. But that wasn't really the thrust of my post.
"Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved." - T. Isabella
But Wonder Woman/Diana dresses like a wh*re on a Czech street.
Like Batman said, on first encounter, "Aren't you a bit underdressed?" (figuratively).
Why doesn't Superman wear a belly shirt and hot pants? He apparently doesn't need clothing as protection.
I give f*@k zero. It's like giving no f*@ks, only without the calories.share
Men wore belly shirts first. And men wear hot pants too.
And I could go about the whole body tights as much as about any slutty outfit. Depends on the person/character.
Not that I want Superman in belly shirts and hot pants.
Spider-Man has good reasons for his aerodynamic outfit. Like Flash (since I don't read any Marvel).
Whatever.
What I want to say is, they haven't much evolved when it comes to the dressing. Though Superman wears a black costume now in the Rebirth.
Certainly a business woman dresses differently than a politican than a college student on spring break. In the comics you often have the latter.
I read comics for their stories and while I like to look at a fancy pictures - as in art, design and colouring/shading - I often roll my eyes at slutty designs either gender.
And in some panels it's like... if you've no good story to tell, then show tits and pussies. Ought to work.
For a set character like Diana, this is kind of offending. Her stars skirt is also totally dated and silly, but that's another story.
The worst angle I've seen was from Huntress though.
There was only one stroke missing for the lips visibly through the pants. Ofc I don't mean the ones in the face.
Hahaha.
So daring. Doesn't do well for her character though. No respect.
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Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!
Men wore belly shirts first. And men wear hot pants too.
Spider-Man has good reasons for his aerodynamic outfit.
What I want to say is, they haven't much evolved when it comes to the dressing.
Though Superman wears a black costume now in the Rebirth.
Certainly a business woman dresses differently than a politican than a college student on spring break. In the comics you often have the latter.
I read comics for their stories and while I like to look at a fancy pictures - as in art, design and colouring/shading - I often roll my eyes at slutty designs either gender.
And in some panels it's like... if you've no good story to tell, then show tits and pussies. Ought to work.
For a set character like Diana, this is kind of offending. Her stars skirt is also totally dated and silly, but that's another story.
The worst angle I've seen was from Huntress though.
There was only one stroke missing for the lips visibly through the pants. Ofc I don't mean the ones in the face.
So daring. Doesn't do well for her character though. No respect.
I give f*@k zero. It's like giving no f*@ks, only without the calories.share
I meant real life with the shirt and pants remark.
Business women and politicians don't generally kick the sh!t out seven-foot alien overlords or mutated lizard men from the sewers on a daily basis either.
Haven't been reading it. I've hated all of Superman's outfits since 52, I can't imagine having any love for this one.
Do the same principles apply to Spider-Woman?
Why doesn't Superman wear a belly shirt and hot pants? He apparently doesn't need clothing as protection.Superman's costume was patterned after those worn by many circus performers in the early Twentieth Century. His has sleeves and leggings, but many early male superheroes wore similar outfits that had neither. Just at the top of my head: Hawkman (leggings but bare chest and legs); Martian Manhunter; classic Robin; Dollman; etc.
Interesting. And why blue?
I get the red and yellow. But why blue?
And why's Robin's costume so colourful?
Were those the colours of the flying Graysons?
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Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!
Superman: I dunno. Siegal and Shuster liked blue.
Robin: The tunic and shoes evoke Robin Hood; the red is for the robin red-breast.
"If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker
Don't we already know that Bruce and Barbara had something running since the Batman Beyond tv series?
I didn't find it repulsive, just weird the writers chose such a topic. One that was much criticized back then already.
They certainly could find another way to have Barbara quit as Batgirl. Maybe have her encounter the real terror of crime, oh wait they did.
Then I dunno why they even added the one night stand. But see it as just what it was, one night and over.
Barbara had her fulfillment of a crush and Bruce felt bad about that he gave in; or just avoided her for other reasons than shame, who knows. He's Batman. Could have been all planed.
But he seems to be the type to give in in such situations than to object.
Makes Bruce more a human with weaknesses.
Or if you prefer, maybe the cold and calculated Bruce just did this to start the end of Batgirl. After such a night it'd be quite awkward to continue. ;)
Bruce - as the leader and the mentor - shouldn't go intimate with an underling of his, that only causes trouble afterwards (esp. for him).
Was it a weakness or planned?
Apparently he has noticed before already that it's time Barbara quits playing crime fighter for fun. And for him. Both wrong reasons.
It's no game and if it was one it comes without winners. Everybody loses something and he didn't want her to lose something.
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Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!
It's no game and if it was one it comes without winners. Everybody loses something and he didn't want her to lose something.
I give f*@k zero. It's like giving no f*@ks, only without the calories.share
That remark was not about what was lost. Certainly many ppl lost family and in even worse ways.
I mean what you lose when you devote your life to such a disciplined way of crime fighting.
Bruce called it the abyss. The point when you don't care anymore, when hope is lost. He was on that border so often (brought to it by his sick opponents) he knows best what he became, what he sacrificed to not succumb. He sacrificed Bruce.
Dick can share some stories too.
Depending what you read he became bitter as well.
Tim lost more afterwards too. Like his best friend Conner.
Barbara said she was in it for Batman (obviously she had a crush, Batman was exciting, the whole thing was). She enjoyed it all. Had fun. A thrill.
But with this case, she obviously didn't judge correctly due to lack of experience with such psychos (good for her) and didn't listen to Batman to let him alone handle it... with that case it was a crossroads and Bruce decided that it's time to stop.
Jason took it as a game too and paid a high price.
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Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!
What a sh!tty oversensitive world we live in when two fictional CARTOONS are shown making love and geeks like you hate it. Ever hear the expression, "Make love not war"?
Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.