MovieChat Forums > The Powerpuff Girls (2016) Discussion > Don't have Him--or at least not the way ...

Don't have Him--or at least not the way he was

posted 9 years ago by Mary_Crewe
56 replies | jump to latest

I never noticed this as a kid or saw it like that, but I've seen people, over the years, point out that Him has stereotypical gay-male qualities (I thought he was just vain) and having him be the main villain is homophobic, especially when all the other characters are straight. In Powerpuff Girls Z, this seemed a little less present to me--he was more like an evil clown, but, regardless, Him was disturbing to me as a child.

I understood Him was the devil or close to it and I hated feeling so uncomfortable when an episode with Him aired. I didn't like it in Powerpuff Girls Z either and I think today's kids should be spared that.

Also, to make up for the homophobia in the old series and even in Powerpuff Girls Z, why don't they have some strong gay, lesbian, and bi (since talking about bisexuality stops people from committing bi erasure) characters (also, having them be races other than white would be great)?

I could honestly see the professor being bi (as he did date Miss Keane and he just seemed to have this personality of being able to feel accepted and yet unaccepted in society) and the narrator be bi (just because he was so friendly and happy, but yet at a distance from everyone almost as if he felt he could only observe happiness, like he fit in as if he could pas for what was demanded of him, but not join in first hand). Maybe, the narrator could come in sometimes as a drawn in character and have a romance with the professor. It would be cute to see him lovingly narrate about the professor and his new step-daughters.

So, yeah, the ultimate villain should not be gay or the only gay or bi character or gay or bi, in this day and age (homophobia and biphobia still run rampant).

[–] sweeneytoddmusical 9 years ago

I do agree that it's a little hurtful towards the LGBT community members when someone like them is made out to be a villain, but this is how I see it.

LGBT people are not the only ones cast as stereotypical villains in kids' shows. I've seen various races, genders and sexualities be villains. If you want HIM to not be the awesome villain he was then we might as well also remove Mojo Jojo, Sedusa, Fuzzy and the Gangreen Gang too. Mojo because not all geniuses are evil, Fuzzy because not all country people are bad, Sedusa because not all promiscuous women are evil and the Gangreen Gang because not all mellowed out highschool kids are criminals, either.

I think if HIM was changed or removed, the show wouldn't be half as much fun. You guys really shouldn't be so upset over the fact he was evil and really be more impressed with the fact he was so awesome and memorable, right up there with Mojo Jojo.

[–] Mary_Crewe 9 years ago

I always felt Miss Bellum was the good version of Sedusa, since they both seem promiscuous. See my reply to the other commenter too.

[–] TeenGangDeb 8 years ago

I always felt Miss Bellum was the good version of Sedusa, since they both seem promiscuous.

How so?

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Love means never having to say you're ugly. - The Abominable Dr. Phibes

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

Miss Bellum was this over worked woman who still managed to be helpful to the girls.

[–] TeenGangDeb 8 years ago

Miss Bellum was this over worked woman who still managed to be helpful to the girls.

How does this make her promiscuous?

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Love means never having to say you're ugly. - The Abominable Dr. Phibes

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

That's what made her good. She oozed sex, with her Sedusa like body.

[–] TeenGangDeb 8 years ago

That's what made her good. She oozed sex, with her Sedusa like body.

Sexy and promiscuous are 2 different things.

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Love means never having to say you're ugly. - The Abominable Dr. Phibes

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

I know, but I always assumed she probably was, with her sexual icon status.

[–] TeenGangDeb 8 years ago

I know, but I always assumed she probably was, with her sexual icon status.

Well that's really sexist. Also, it's a cartoon.

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Love means never having to say you're ugly. - The Abominable Dr. Phibes

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

[–] TeenGangDeb 8 years ago

No, it's not. I just felt the writers were referencing promiscuity with her. She had god traits, but she also came off as more of a fantasy for her body, barely ever showing her face.

Realizing the writers were doing that isn't sexist.

Assuming a woman is promiscuous because of how she looks is sexist. How about the fact that she is one of the smartest characters?

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Love means never having to say you're ugly. - The Abominable Dr. Phibes

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

She was really smart and I assumed it about a fictional character, so I was making a theory about the writers. I'm not sexist. She was smart and had great traits, but she came off as sex appeal most of the time. In the new show, she could be developed as Miss Keane.

[–] mslady89 8 years ago

I think its freaking hilarious you thought him would be insulting to the lgbt community but just comfortably wrote off ms bellum as promiscuous

It goes pass irony. It's ridiculous

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

I wasn't writing her off as being less than, but I think more could be done than just sex appeal. Have more good moments for her. Him is so many stereotypes and creepy. Kids don't need that.

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

Well, yeah, you could change all those villains for that reason or the Powerpuff Girls could be given those traits too or new good characters could be given those traits.

[–] Thenewnexus 9 years ago

You have a problem with a gay character that happens to be a villain? Why?

I'm gonna show you something beautiful everyone screaming for mercy

[–] Mary_Crewe 9 years ago

I don't like that the worst villain is the devil and that he could be seen as a gay male stereotype. Some people actually believe gay people are like the devil, so children should see good representation of gay characters, so they can learn to accept people. The only gay character shouldn't be evil.

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

I know as a kid it was very jarring to know my society is homophobic and I couldn't figure out if someone being gay or bi was ok. Seeing only villains be gay was definitely something that added to it. Any time I saw characters who were good and gay (or I thought they were bi) it helped me relax about it. I learned something.

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

As a kid, it was very jarring to know the world was homophobic. It made me confused about whether or not someone being gay or bi made them a bad person. There were times I got this idea that most gay and bi people are not Christian because of the way people misuse the Bible against them and people would misuse the Bible to be sexist, but I was still a Christian (I was even ready to be considered less of a person if it's what God wanted, but I also noticed feminist aspects of God and Jesus in the Bible, so I knew they don't want that.), so to me it was like gay and bi people weren't even trying and it made me angry at them, except when they were Christian.

I go to a church in a progressive denomination (United Church of Christ), so I wasn't like those people stuck in hateful denominations and I didn't see that privilege. Also, despite being where I was, it was still the 90s and early 2000s. We weren't taught a lot or so well about gay and bi (no coverage on the latter) people being able to be Christian.

[–] Nimbus_cloud_2000 9 years ago

I really loved HIM I thought he was amazing. All children have a wierd fears and just because you and some other children were freaked out by him doesn't mean he should get cut. And about the gay thing, a lot Sailor Moons villains where gay and I adored them even though they where bad guys. Eventually they did get lesbian Sailor Scouts but that is besides the point. What I'm saying is ill rather have a gay villain then no gays in the show at all.

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

I hate that in the Japanese version of Sailor Moon that most of the openly gay male characters are villains. That's why I just stick to the manga, the Dic/Cloverway dub (where I pretend Amara and Michelle are just disguised as cousins, but are out of it by the Super S special, because I knew and loved that they were gay and maybe bisexual on Michiru's/Michelle's part, as a kid, because it taught me acceptance), but I feel like watching the S season of Viz's dub is worth it, since it's more positive that season, and I also stick to Sailor Moon Crystal.

Yeah, actually, no kid should be left to fend for themselves against a confusing or scary character.

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

The Dic/Cloverway Dub was crap and it was very offensive towards gay people. At least the Japanese Version and Viz Dub acknowledges gay people exist and does try and change them

There are tons of Superheroes that are gay so its not just bad guys that we see that are gay

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

I think it was wrong to edit it and some of the actors and at least one mostly behind the scenes staff member have acknowledged it wasn't right but a product of the times, just like Him, but Him is more homophobic, when that's how only a villain is portrayed. Yes, there are gay super heroes, but none represented in Sailor Moon, so there isn't a positive learning experience or representation.

I love Viz for unediting Haruka/Michiru though and everyone can be happy in Crystal.

[–] Thenewnexus 8 years ago

Neptune and Uranus are heroes

Class is Pain 101. Your instructor is Casey Jones

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

They are and that's great, but there were no openly male gay or bi heroes. Just villains.

[–] MovieMaster95 8 years ago

Jesus Christ, lighten up. It's because of people like you that TV shows are so watered down and stale nowadays. The character of Him isn't homophobic in the slightest. He's just a cross-dressing villain in a kid's show. That's it. Stop getting offended over nothing.

I could honestly see the professor being bi (as he did date Miss Keane and he just seemed to have this personality of being able to feel accepted and yet unaccepted in society) and the narrator be bi (just because he was so friendly and happy, but yet at a distance from everyone almost as if he felt he could only observe happiness, like he fit in as if he could pas for what was demanded of him, but not join in first hand). Maybe, the narrator could come in sometimes as a drawn in character and have a romance with the professor. It would be cute to see him lovingly narrate about the professor and his new step-daughters.

Uh...no.

"We'll be alive but like a nightmare. You drink blood, you won't wake up from nightmare."

[–] Xyzzy 8 years ago

Equality for ALL! Make sure that all ultimate villains are straight, white males!

Heh.

"Him" is just McCracken's take on the Chief Blue Meanie.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0120653/

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[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

I didn't say that. I don't think the most prominent gay character and only gay character should be a villain and I think the character was inappropriate. There were female villains, but also female heroes, so it should work like that.

[–] Xyzzy 8 years ago

That's called "begging the question". You're asserting that Him is gay, using a pretty broad brush of stereotypes. Then, having asserted that, you now get to be offended and decide how things "should" work.

Using that logic, I should get to be offended by your assumptions about Him and how things "should" work, and monitor all your communication to ensure that your posts meet with my exquisite sensibilities about fairness.

But I'm guessing you wouldn't be up for that.
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[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

I'm using freedom of speech and I'm not wrong. He's so many stereotypes and that alone could affect how someone thinks about gay people, or even bi or pans people, or people who don't fit gender stereotypes.

Making the villain so stereotypically gay and that be the only character who is gay just feeds into homophobia. Most adults don't talk to to kids about identities like bisexuality and homosexuality and seeing gay characters be outright villains or do something like the scene in Remember The Titans when a gay guy forced a kiss on a straight (homophobic, yes, but that doesn't earn someone sexual harassment) guy made me assume gay people were rarely good and this wasn't even hatefully done. It confused the life out of me and scared me to have those thoughts. At the same time, I sensed something wrong about what I was learning and would remember there were good gay people somewhere. It was jarring.

I did see good examples, like Amara and Michelle on Sailor Moon (because we all knew they weren't cousins) and Marco on Degrassi: The Next Generation, but that wasn't enough.

I don't want someone else messed up like me. I was scared to show how much I platonically cared for female friends, because of the world's homophobia. I really care about this stuff now, because people like me exist and worse yet some are gay and bi and no one needs this when gay and bi, pans, etc. people kill themselves because of oppressive bullying about same-gender attraction.

[–] Xyzzy 8 years ago

OK, you win, Him is gay. You can tell by all the **** he sucks. All things should be changed to fit your emotional history.

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http://moviegique.com/
I go to the movies more than you.

[–] droidX 8 years ago

I hope Him is in every other episode just because you made this ridiculously laughable post. Skin puppets these days I swear lmfao.

[–] david_hokey_16 8 years ago

There's so much wrong with your post. I'm a gay man, and I don't really fit most gay stereotypes but I know people who do. Just because HIM was effeminate and cross dressed does not mean he was meant to be a gay stereotype. I never saw it that way. I know some very effeminate straight men and also studies show that the majority of cross dressers are heterosexual. He was simply meant to be ambiguous and that includes his gender role. He was an awesome character - the only one who used psychological means to fight the girls, and he should not be changed.

Second of all, HIM might be the ultimate villain in terms of villainy but he was not the ultimate antagonist within the show. That goes to Mojo Jojo.

Lastly, I don't see the need to start making characters gay or bi left and right. Professor Utonium never displayed any affection for men. It's not like Iceman who was speculated as gay or bi for decades before he came out. And the narrator? He's a *beep* disembodied voice. I see nothing wrong with gay representation in a children's show - if you can even call some of these 90s cartoons as such seeing as how much innuendo they got away with - but it shouldn't be forced.

Then again I'm not sure why you're arguing about anything to do with this new series which is going to suck regardless.

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

Old shows did have too much innuendo. That needs to go too.

Him wasn't the main villain, but he was the worst, and he fit gay male stereotypes, like not fitting gender norms.

My Professor Utonium/Narrator thing was just positive re-imagining, so there is something people can learn from and nicely see themselves in.

I'm arguing about this, because it's a returning show that had a lot of problems.

[–] j_breez 8 years ago

Him was probably one of the best characters in the original show, you found him disturbing because he was supposed to be. I don't see him as some kind of representative of a gay male villain stereotype (I didn't even know there was such a thing then or now really), he was just flamboyant as all hell.

[–] Mary_Crewe 8 years ago

No child should be made to feel as disturbed as I was.

[–] j_breez 8 years ago

I was a kid at the time as well and didn't find him disturbing at all, even though he was supposed to be according to how he sounded. If they mess his character up in any way for this remake, it'll automatically be a failure in my book. But, different strokes and all that jazz.