To all the Otto haters: - Second Chance (2016) Discussion

[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

Dude he's a conscienceless killer who experiments on people like they're ants and lies like words mean nothing. He may be autistic or otherwise neuro-atypical, but he's also evil. One does not preclude the other.

"Mr. Barba, you're off to a flying stop."

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

Who has he killed? He has only experimented on the dead. The people he threw away were still dead and were brought back to life by someone else.

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

Okay then - attempted killer, I should say. He only meant to kill Alexa, Pritchard and Albert Lin. None of them actually died at his hand.

But they were all alive when he tried to kill them.

"Mr. Barba, you're off to a flying stop."

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

I don't remember whether or not they said that they were alive at the time of disposal or not. I thought that they were still dead corpses when he got rid of them. But if they had heartbeats and were able to function that is different. I don't think that they had a heartbeat but they may have regenerated to a point. If they were living breathing people at the time of disposal then what Connor Graff do to finish the work? If Otto did regenerate and revive Alexa then why does he or his computer program not recognize Alexa?

I think that Otto experimented on corpses but didn't revive anyone until Jimmy. He may have regenerated their bodies but never brought them back to life. He may have disposed of their regenerated corpses but they were not functional at the time. Connor Graff then took those bodies and then furthered the process by reviving them. That is a major difference and it is important distinction.

It would help if you could cite a line of the show where it makes it a bit clearer on the revival thing because to me it has been a little vague.

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

Did you even watch this latest episode?

Did you maybe just skip the part where Mary had to save Jimmy from Otto's death sentence?

Even if you stretch everything as far as you can, and rationalize it down to just him, that was attempted murder, and if not for Mary being fairly quick on the draw, it would've been plain old murder murder.

Otto is a very, very bad guy. He is not just misunderstood. He is a killer. He is a liar. He is a criminal conspirator.

"Mr. Barba, you're off to a flying stop."

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

I will give you that he was possibly guilty of depraved indifference. But a couple of minutes before that Jimmy was threatening to hurt Otto. Otto knew that Jimmy was going to return and hurt him. It could be viewed as self defense because of an eminent threat posed by Jimmy.

Otto is a villain now because of what he did to Gracie but I don't feel that he was one before that.

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

So murder is okay if you don't like someone. Got it.


"Mr. Barba, you're off to a flying stop."

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

No it isn't. But defending yourself against someone who has already assaulted you and is planning to do it again is okay.

Did Jimmy assault Otto?
Did Jimmy threaten to hurt Otto?
When Jimmy got out of the tank was Jimmy going to return and assault Otto again?
Should Otto be in fear for his safety?

Jimmy was an eminent threat.

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

You mean "imminent," and that also isn't what that word means anyway. Otto was in absolutely no physical danger from Jimmy, who was trapped in the tank and not a threat to anyone on the planet, at the time that he tried to kill him.

It would have been cold-blooded murder if not for Mary; as is, it was cold-blooded attempted murder.

"Mr. Barba, you're off to a flying stop."

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

eminent ‎(comparative more eminent, superlative most eminent)
(archaic) high, lofty; towering; prominent.
noteworthy, remarkable, great
His eminent good sense has been a godsend to this project.
(of a person) distinguished, important, noteworthy

I used the right word but either could be used in this context.

Jimmy was a threat to Otto. Otto tried to stop a man who assaulted him and threatened to hurt him again. Jimmy is a man who has the strength of five other men, a man who was not going to be stopped by security, a man with firearms knowledge and training.

The minute Jimmy threatened Otto he became a permanent threat until he was dealt with. Was Otto suppose to wait until Jimmy came back to hurt him?

What should Otto have done to stop Jimmy?

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[–] JJett131313 8 years ago

when did Jimmy assault Otto? yes, he lightly pushed Ott and intimidated him but there was no actionable assault IMO. also killing someone because you THINK they MAY hurt you is not ok nor legal to do. so if i think that someone who bullied me back in the 7th grade MIGHT come back and do it again, that means it's morally and legally ok to kill him first?

Otto intentionally shutting down the computer dealio/Arthur knowing full well that doing so would in all likelihood kill Jimmy is attempted murder.

what should Otto have done to stop Jimmy?

how about call the police? hire 40 bodyguards, etc, etc.
you can't kill someone simply because you fear they will hurt/intimidate you.

lasercannon-1, i honestly can't tell if you're joking around with your view on this "Jimmy threat". lol.

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

when did Jimmy assault Otto? yes, he lightly pushed Otto and intimidated him but there was no actionable assault IMO. also killing someone because you THINK they MAY hurt you is not ok nor legal to do. so if i think that someone who bullied me back in the 7th grade MIGHT come back and do it again, that means it's morally and legally ok to kill him first?

That is very much assault.

Watch it again. He pushed Otto, then he approached him in a threatening manner, he then proceeded to grab Otto and threaten his life. That is assault.

Here is the definition of assault from criminaldefenselawyer.com/

Assault

The crime of assault, in some states, is very similar to criminal threats. An assault occurs when a person either attempts to physically injure someone else, or uses threats of force accompanied by threatening actions. Words alone are usually not enough to commit an assault, and some sort of physical action is typically required. For example, threatening to punch someone is usually not an assault. However, making the threats and then approaching the person in a threatening manner does qualify as assault. So, the same conduct that is considered a criminal threat in one state may be classified as an assault in another.

You can't kill someone simply because you fear they will hurt/intimidate you.

Yes you can. That is called self defense.

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[–] JJett131313 8 years ago

show me the actual law that says you can kill someone simply because you fear they will hurt/intimidate you (especially in the context of how things went between Otto & Jimmy).

your saying "Yes you can. That is called self defense" is not a law.

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

I think there's something genuinely wrong with this guy. Like, in a big way.

"I just wanna slap his hideous, beautiful face!"

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide

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[–] FrogFlanker 8 years ago

Did you maybe just skip the part where Mary had to save Jimmy from Otto's death sentence?

That's the interesting part, as Otto said he created this version of Jimmy, as a creator does he not has the right to strike him down? I don't think that's a question with a straight forward answer, certainly not a plain old murder murder.

Also one can argue Jimmy may not even be considered human, his DNA was certainly changed, he has superhuman strength, and he only has a few hours to live without the tank, definitely not a normal human being. And Otto didn't try to kill him, he just tried to deny him the use of the tank, which is Otto's property, inside his home.

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[–] symphonyjade 8 years ago

Dude he's a conscienceless killer who experiments on people like they're ants and lies like words mean nothing. He may be autistic or otherwise neuro-atypical, but he's also evil. One does not preclude the other.

Thaaank you! You've succinctly summed it up, ToHelenBackAgain. My greatest bone of contention with the writers of this show is the severe lack of research that went into the creation of the Otto character's psychology. They threw in Autism, Asperger's, Savant, etc and didn't give a toss for which characteristics actually contradict their premise of "on the spectrum". That phrase is highly overused, misunderstood and covers a multitude of sins. It's lazy writing at best. Irresponsible at worst. There's a clown on this board on another thread desperately trying to 'identify' with Otto labouring under the delusion that he'll be mistaken for 'clever'.

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[–] lasercannon-1 8 years ago

I never had a problem with Otto until he hurt Gracie then he became a villian. He definitely has a myriad of emotional and psychological problems along with a codependent relationship with Mary. I have really hated how the Sheriff has treated Otto. I actually liked Otto more than the Sherrif for most of this series.

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[–] nona-sui 8 years ago

He deliberately hurt a little girl and may leave her in a vegetative state because his sister doesn't want to have sex with him. Having autism doesn't excuse people from being evil.

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[–] blust2 8 years ago

I don't think Otto wants to have sex with his sister. He just wants them never separate and live as a combined identity.

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[–] Initial_G 8 years ago

You are assuming that something is wrong with him. All I see is an incestuous evil bastard that was coddled by his sister for too long. He could be faking the whole thing. He is smart and manipulative enough to do it.

Funny how nothing is wrong with him when he is by himself or with someone he needs help from.

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

He could be faking the whole thing.

That would be AWESOME.

I do think we've seen indications that Otto is still "off" when Mary isn't around, but my recollection is that it's less than what he displays in her presence. And this would be a very, very funny reveal!

"Mr. Barba, you're off to a flying stop."

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[–] Beauq81 8 years ago

I agree with you. The problem here is that it was all a bit poorly written, but, at the same time, adds to the mystery, we don't know what to think of him. I think Otto will have a "WTF am I doing" moment and save Gracie.

Fighting a religious war is like fighting over whose imaginary friend is better.

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[–] Warlock72 8 years ago

Otto will tell Mary that he is willing to save Gracie if she breaks up with Pritchard, and goes full retard on him in bed.

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[–] Beauq81 8 years ago

You are one disturbed individual, you know that, right?

Fighting a religious war is like fighting over whose imaginary friend is better.

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[–] Warlock72 8 years ago

I have OTTO Syndrome!

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[–] queenofaliens85 8 years ago

I agree that Otto does show signs on being on the Autism Spectrum (definitely has signs of Asperger's with difficulty in social interactions) It does gives us some insight of why he's doing the things he's doing. People with Autism don't like change (and don't adapt well to change) and for Otto, the aspect of losing Mary (to anything) is unthinkable. And people with Autism (and/or Asperger's) don't always see that line between socially right and socially wrong (a normal person doesn't experiment on people like what Otto did)

But still this doesn't excuse some of the actions Otto has done. Just because you have a behavioral/mental/developmental problems, doesn't mean you have the right to do the things that Otto did.

This is coming from someone who has made her living working with people who have developmental disabilities (some who are on the Autism Spectrum (including Asperger's syndrome)

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[–] UncleRob 8 years ago

queen -- I never stated nor implied that Otto had "the right" to do despicable things. All I stated was his illnesses make his actions a little more understandable, and he, in turn, a little less of an odious person and less worthy of all the hate he's been garnering on this board.

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You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU ... WILL ... ATONE!

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

That's where you're wrong though. He's not any less evil just because he also has his own problems.

"I just wanna slap his hideous, beautiful face!"

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[–] don savant 8 years ago

If he were not rich, he would not be allowed to make any decisions for his life.

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[–] ravmeltt 8 years ago

Uncle Rob I agree with your post. I do think he has Asperger's. And while I am angry at what he has done, I can understand his hurt. Mary is not only ignoring him and putting Pritchard's feelings first, she is also falling in love with him. Hell, doesn't she remember he is a 75 year old man? I think she should have kept it professional and kept her mind on her business. I think she has brought a lot of this on herself and on the company and I think she is to blame for the fall of the company. She could have worked with Otto and handled the situation differently, but she's too busy "falling in love" to think straight.

Teenage love affairs are about intensity, not longevity

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[–] UncleRob 8 years ago

rav -- the heart wants what the heart wants, but yes, she could have been a little kinder about it to Otto, and Otto, in turn would probably not have had the harsh feelings he had for Pritchard. So yes, Mary was selfish. Tunnel vision?

And ... a 75-tear-old guy in a young, virile, not-ugly body? I think about 3 billion women (particularly those who want to marry their daddies) would want something like that -- experience, maturity and hotness all in one package.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU ... WILL ... ATONE!

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[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

Mary, selfish?  She's devoted her entire life to Otto!

"I just wanna slap his hideous, beautiful face!"

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[–] ravmeltt 8 years ago

And ... a 75-tear-old guy in a young, virile, not-ugly body? I think about 3 billion women (particularly those who want to marry their daddies) would want something like that -- experience, maturity and hotness all in one package.

I don't know Uncle Rob. I keep seeing that old man. Maybe I do have tunnel vision. lol

Teenage love affairs are about intensity, not longevity

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