MovieChat Forums > Toni Erdmann (2016) Discussion > Not boring, but annoying

Not boring, but annoying

posted 7 years ago by nalini-kluth-735-879554
20 replies | jump to latest

After seeing it I do not get the hype at all. I am into all kinds of weird humour (just look at my list and my ratings), but I did not laugh a single time or find any of the scenes in the slightest funny. On the other hand I did not see the drama (criticism of a modern capitalist society, loneliness, because your job swallows you up, estrangement between family members? If these were some of the topics, they certainly have been handled much, much better in other movies).

The movie is weird and long - if that deserves critical acclaim, so be it ...

I found all the characters absolutely annoying and I could not identify/feel/emphasise with any of them. Would you like a father (person) like Winfried around you? After the second prank I would have seriously told him off and given him a kick in the a**. Would you like someone like Ines around you? And then they end up in completely silly situations, where everyone seems to accept (perhaps even like) this weird character with the fake wig and false teeth (who constantly reminded me of German comedian Loriot; you can see it here, in case you do not know it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVI2PtVXZzk

(unfortunately there are no subtitles available) - perhaps it's a tribute?! Simonischek acts and looks just like the Monster in this scene.)

I loved Maren Ade's last movie Everyone Else, but this - for me - is a complete failure.

Just my opinion ... If you liked it, good for you. It is certainly better than a lot of the trash that you see in multiplexes or on TV. It shows that you have taste - but it is simply not for me.

Nali*

My list: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls053994183/?start=1&view=grid&sort=created:desc&defaults=1&lists

[–] wildtalesvolver 7 years ago

I am with you on this film!
I heard so much good things about the film and expected it to be amazing... One should never under estimate the film that all critics thought was robbed in Cannes, right?
But after watching the film, I really feel the Cannes jury did not owe this film anything. I think the singing scene, the nude party and the father's costume were fun good ideas, but the rest of the film felt tedious and long. The jokes were not funny. I wasn't touched throughout the film either.
Just my feeling --- perhaps this is just not the film for me and I respect everyone who likes the film.

[–] naples-884-346409 7 years ago

It's a very odd movie.

I want to see it one more time before I make up my mind.

But it played amazingly well with a big crowd in a full theatre...
I've rarely seen an audience laughing this hard.
You could really hear them react to certain scenes.

I felt, it was too long sometimes, but
it's a very original and fun film overall.

[–] nycmovieguru 7 years ago

Seeing it a 2nd time definitely helped me to appreciate the film's many layers of depth beneath its surface: http://nycmovieguru.com/dec25th16.html#tonierdmann

[–] nereidon 7 years ago

i wasnt blown away by the movie myself and kind of share your sentiment but ...

Would you like someone like Ines around you? And then they end up in completely silly situations, where everyone seems to accept (perhaps even like) this weird character with the fake wig and false teeth

funny that you would say something like that because that pretty much sums up the (corporate) life that was portrayed in the movie. unlikable people pretending all kind of things on different stages with each other as an audience. whether it is a party or a business meeting, a presentation or a visit to the factory or simply having sex with a co - it is all a lifeless fakery of dead souls that cant feel any joy behind their frozen smiles.

A comedy it is because of the lack of a fitting genre i assume, it is prolly as much a drama as a comedy, even more. So if there are maybe absurd but not really funny scenes in it that is not a surprise. Like i said i dont mean to criticize you, I too feel that it is not the masterpiece that some people are talking about, but it is worth some thoughts if not a second viewing. and of course "up in the air" might even be a better choice.

[–] nalini-kluth-735-879554 7 years ago

Thanks for your kind reply.

I am totally with you: it is a presentation of the fake business world (we) they all live in - but that's it. Perhaps some people did not know that yet and this movie is a big revelation to them.

But - all the shenanigans the father pulls (Is there any answer to the question why he does that? To make his daughter aware of that and to make her change her perspective/way of life?) fail completely and she continues as before - and I am quite sure that she was already aware of how the system worked before he appeared.

Do not get me wrong: I do not favour movies (as is so often the case in Hollywood) with a big, life-changing revelation for the protagonist, but here simply nothing happens - perhaps the embrace near the end showed that father and daughter found each other again. But then, again, I did not have the impression that their relationship before was completely on the rocks.

Ceratinly a film worth thinking about and discussing - but I am simply flabbergasted by the overwhelmingly positive feedback for this movie. (And I am still trying to figure out, what I or the critics got wrong or if it's really simply a matter of taste.)

Nali*

My list: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls053994183/?start=1&view=grid&sort=created:desc&defaults=1&lists

[–] nereidon 7 years ago

Certainly a film worth thinking about and discussing - but I am simply flabbergasted by the overwhelmingly positive feedback for this movie. (And I am still trying to figure out, what I or the critics got wrong or if it's really simply a matter of taste.)

well now i have read some reviews in german online newspapers and the contributions from readers in the comment section and it basically is the same picture. the critic is babbling about how exceptional this movie was (and they all have different takes on it !) and the audience that was allured to go to the theaters is underwhelmed to say the least.

I had no high expectations and just was curious since Simonischek is an Austrian and the movie is an Austrian/German co-production, so i couldnt really be disappointed. On the other hand although the movie has considerably length it never feld tedious or flat out boring to me. Almost on the contrary a lot of people have very different and interesting readings of the movies message. It is almost like there is a great movie hidden in the movie and that one is not easily found.

anyways: you are not alone ;-)

in the end i give it a 6, where any decent movie gets a 5 and extra points for any exceptional feature be it the acting, the plot, the dialogue, photography, effects or a very unusual quality that makes it stand out. Here i feel the acting, the plot and the "je ne sais quoi" sum up to that extra point. Like i said i found "up in the air" brilliant having a pretty similar message and this one lacks too much to come even close to a ten.

[–] b_a_best 7 years ago

I agree with all of this wholeheartedly.

[–] sickntwisted-1 7 years ago

I like to interpret things outside the movie. I agree with your points, but I actually enjoyed this movie.

Some spoilers below:

What it made me think about was that the real plot is not what happened in this movie but what happened years ago. We see a father trying to reconnect with his daughter but what made them fall apart in the first place? Just her job, the divorce or something else?

What it hinted at, to me, was that Winfried was a really bad influence to Ines, and that she was addicted to him. She went cold turkey, made it her plan to go work far from home to be away from being a child all her life. This is shown by the slow escalation of her mental chaos, from starting to include her father on her professional life, to having a mental breakdown and getting naked before one of the most important events of her job.
Actually, come to think of it, the assistant's (Anca) relationship with Ines kind of mirrors what I feel Ines had with her father in the past - the search for approval, the constant need of feedback.

Also, it made me think that this type of behavior by Winfriend would happen in spurts. He gets bored, starts harassing until he's successful, making it his project for a while, and then he gets bored again and moves to something else. He's just doing this to Ines because she doesn't want him to do it, which is a big challenge. Ines knows this, but forgets and lets him envelop her life in awkwardness and mental suffering until he succeeds. That's what I felt was sad about the movie, that final scene: she puts his teeth, mimics him a bit and he feels pride, completeness. "Let me get the camera", he says, and we wait, we wait with Ines, and the movie ends without him coming back. In the last seconds of the film we notice Ines understanding that he's done it again.

I sincerely feel that he was an absent father that, in the few moments in which he was present, he wanted to gobble all the attention and have his insecurity sated by everyone around him.

[–] nalini-kluth-735-879554 7 years ago

Very interesting thoughts, indeed. I agree with your analysis, epecially of Winfried's character: a spoilt brat who needs all the attention he can get completely disregarding the needs of others. I am still not so sure about the daughter's reaction, because it simply does not make any sense to me, since she knows her father and his antics.

Much more reason for me to not like the movie, because I simply cannot stand characters like Winfried and even less understand people who accept them without either trying to set them straight or completely avoiding them.

Nali'

My list: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls053994183/?start=1&view=grid&sort=created:desc&defaults=1&lists

[–] sickntwisted-1 7 years ago

Much more reason for me to not like the movie, because I simply cannot stand characters like Winfried and even less understand people who accept them without either trying to set them straight or completely avoiding them.

:) That seems a bit reductive. With that sentence you shouldn't enjoy any masterpiece with flawed characters. I'm not saying this movie is a masterpiece, far from it in my opinion, but I don't think we should always understand everyone's motives and actions.

Her reaction seems to me one of "finally he pays attention to me", clouded by years of emancipation.

[–] Chris_TC 7 years ago

I agree with your analysis, epecially of Winfried's character: a spoilt brat who needs all the attention he can get completely disregarding the needs of others.

Oh wow, you guys are so far off the mark here. Maybe you don't speak German, and the subtitles don't get this across properly: Winfried is a jokester of course, but his actions in this movie are entirely meant to teach his daughter how to ease up. He's trying to help her be less intense and stiff, and to enjoy her life.

Early in the movie, she asks him whether he doesn't have any other aspirations than to make jokes all time. But the point is that he's enjoying himself. He asks her if she's happy, and she clearly isn't. He on the other hand proves that you can get yourself into silly situations and enjoy yourself without worrying about consequences all the time.

[Minor spoilers ahead]

There are so many key scenes in the film: for example when he gets her to paint eggs in a random apartment or sing a song about loving yourself to strangers. In the climactic birthday party scene, she starts freaking out when she has problems with the dress, but after a short struggle she just gives up and tells herself "who cares"? What starts off as a completely crazy situation even has her boss joining in eventually.

Then she runs out into the street, barely dressed (would she have done something like that two film-hours earlier? Of course not) and gives that big hairy creature a hug, because she finally understands what he's been trying to teach her. Even though she went extra-crazy at that party, initially kind of a breakdown really, it turned out to be quite the revelation for her.

The entire movie is about this concept: ease up and enjoy life more. The very first event after Winfried's arrival in Bucharest is another example. She is all stressed out and intense, trying desparately to talk to her client about business. Her father simply makes a few jokes and ends up bonding with the client better than her. He's the one who's being asked to join the afterparty, not her. She's a try-hard, he simply lives.

[–] nalini-kluth-735-879554 7 years ago

Hallo Chris,

ich verstehe Deutsch - also daran kann's nicht liegen ;) . Haben Sie den Eindruck, dass Winfried seine eigenen Späße lustig findet ("he's enjoying himself.")? Oder etwa einer der anderen Beteiligten ? Lächelt (oder lacht) irgendjemand in diesem Film überhaupt (und wenn, dann äußerst gequält)? Sie lesen die (vielleicht) intendierte Botschaft in den Film hinein ("ease up and enjoy life more") - aber falls dies die "Message" ist, versagt der Film meiner Ansicht nach kläglich. Warum taucht Winfried am Ende des Film nicht mehr auf, obwohl seine Tochter wartet? Wird die Tochter ihre neu gewonnene Lebenseinstellung - wie Sie meinen - in ihren neuen Job in Shanghai mitnehmen? Ich denke, nein.

Und für mich bleibt die entscheidende Frage: Würden Sie jemanden wie Winfried um sich herum in allen Lebenslagen (vor allem im Beruf) ertragen können? Wenn ja, dann ist Ihre Sichtweise auf diesen Film natürlich eine völlig andere. Ich für meinen Teil würde es hassen, permanent den Pseudoscherzen eines "jokesters" ausgesetzt zu sein, die mich (und mein Umfeld) nur peinlich berühren, aber keinesfalls amüsieren würden.

Liebe Grüße,

Nali*

My list: http://www.imdb.com/list/ls053994183/?start=1&view=grid&sort=created:desc&defaults=1&lists

[–] Chris_TC 7 years ago

Haben Sie den Eindruck, dass Winfried seine eigenen Späße lustig findet ("he's enjoying himself.")?

Selbstverständlich, er hat Spaß daran, andere an der Nase herumzuführen. Das wird schon an der ersten Szene mit dem Postboten offensichtlich. Diese kleinen Späße amüsieren ihn.

Oder etwa einer der anderen Beteiligten ?

Dass andere ihn nicht halb so lustig finden wie er sich selbst, ist vielleicht sogar der Kern des ganzen. Ihm geht es nicht so sehr darum, andere zum Lachen zu bringen, er möchte sich in erster Linie selbst amüsieren. Auch wenn ihn andere deshalb doof oder nervtötend finden, ihm ist das völlig egal.

Warum taucht Winfried am Ende des Film nicht mehr auf, obwohl seine Tochter wartet?

Weil der Film zu Ende ist bevor er wiederkommt.

Wird die Tochter ihre neu gewonnene Lebenseinstellung - wie Sie meinen - in ihren neuen Job in Shanghai mitnehmen?

Vermutlich nein. Spätestens nach einigen Wochen wird sie wieder in ihr altes Schema zurückfallen.

Würden Sie jemanden wie Winfried um sich herum in allen Lebenslagen (vor allem im Beruf) ertragen können?

Ich würde ihn nicht lange ertragen. Aber im Rahmen des Films finde ich seine skurrilen Einfälle sehr sehenswert.

[–] gencpula 7 years ago

Based on your comments, you must be a very boring person. Lacking the very fundamental life virtue - empathy.

[–] godteri-95 7 years ago

they could easily have cut 45minuttes of the movie.

[–] Poobird 7 years ago

Absolutely agree!

[–] ElianBaker 7 years ago

Yeah, this movie was long as hell. It's not that it's "boring" but it could have been half the length and I wouldn't have minded some stronger, more blatant character development to justify the depressing 2/3 of the film.

[–] francishooks 7 years ago

A good 60 minutes could've been taken out of the middle of this film. Its one of those films that has such a fantastic final 30 minutes that many viewers forget what a long plod it was to get there.

[–] bastille-852-731547 7 years ago

I agree that it was annoying. I expected it to be very good, but it was a huge disappointment for me. The acting and script were fine, but I didn't like any of the characters or even feel any reason to care about them. But what really annoyed me the most about it was that the movie had no purpose. The film had a bit of a message about lightening up and enjoying a sense of humor every once in a while, but there really seemed to be not much else to it in the way of purpose. This is also true in terms of plot, which there wasn't much of here. It was mainly just Winfried embarrassing his daughter in a variety of situations, dispersed with scenes of the daughter's professional and personal life. It just never really added up to anything. Not to mention, the movie was tedious. I knew that it was long (it's 2 hours and 42 minutes) going in, but I don't mind long movies at all as long as they are interesting, and thus keep you engaged the whole time. With that said, given the film's lack of substance and purpose, it felt longer than it was. I didn't really get bored per se because it picks up a bit in the last act, but this was a bit of a drag. I will say that the ending was pretty good, though.

Overall, I love interesting foreign and art-house films and had been looking forward to this one, but it was a big let-down. I think it's almost hard to believe that it's getting that much Oscar buzz. 4.5/10

[–] [email protected] (1293) 7 years ago

It was awful, and a snooze fest.. Annoying fake teeth jokes, with bad wigs. The movie is on in the background now because I am crazy enough to watch till the end. I am loyal that way. Kill me now.