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Why is there so much dislike for Karen and Foggy?

posted 7 years ago by dmcreif
18 replies | jump to latest

I really don't get it. They're as equally important to the story as Matt is. Why does the Internet have so much dislike for Foggy and Karen? Especially Karen? Because I watched both seasons and I don't see anything that would justify the amount of dislike for her character, especially when some of those criticisms are very flimsy (like arguing how she gets people around her killed, as if Karen insidiously manipulated people into making the decisions that got them killed, rather than them just making their own choices).

[–] biplane-andy 7 years ago

I agree completely about Karen.

But with Foggy, my problem is that in the first season, his anger about Matt being DD and wanting him to stop was justified, but in the second season, I was like, you should know by now he isn't going to stop so you should either get on board and support him or separate yourself from him and go your own way. Don't continue to nag him about stopping when you know it won't do any good.

I understand you don't want him to be DD, but if you can see that he isn't going to stop, what is the point in nagging him about stopping.

I don't dislike Elden Henson, but the way his character is written annoyed me sometimes.

No more games. No more chessboard of life. Now I think I'm just going to beat the $%#@ out of you!!!

[–] dmcreif 7 years ago

But with Foggy, my problem is that in the first season, his anger about Matt being DD and wanting him to stop was justified, but in the second season, I was like, you should know by now he isn't going to stop so you should either get on board and support him or separate yourself from him and go your own way. Don't continue to nag him about stopping when you know it won't do any good.

Yeah, there was a point where I felt that Foggy's criticism of Matt stopped being about what he was up to and more about who he was.

[–] 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dmcreif 7 years ago

But with Foggy, my problem is that in the first season, his anger about Matt being DD and wanting him to stop was justified, but in the second season, I was like, you should know by now he isn't going to stop so you should either get on board and support him or separate yourself from him and go your own way. Don't continue to nag him about stopping when you know it won't do any good.

I understand you don't want him to be DD, but if you can see that he isn't going to stop, what is the point in nagging him about stopping.

Yeah, there's a point in season 2 where Foggy's anger at Matt stops being "you keep this up, you're going to get yourself killed." And he begins to berate Matt as a person in general and he goes as far as calling Matt as a fake friend and a bad person in general, despite the fact he has seen first hand that people have technically died or were targeted under their care (Elena, Grotto), yet he makes the situation more about himself instead of his near-dying friend, even after being informed that Daredevil had nothing to do with the deaths. I'd be marginally upset as well if someone I thought was close to me had this kind of secret life without dispelling me, and was constantly getting hurt because of that, but why would I go so far as to demoralize my friend's personal character for it as if he killed my mother? Then Foggy kept assuming other things that weren't there (like he thought Matt wanted to defend Frank Castle because Frank was another vigilante, even though Matt had made quite clear on several occasions that he didn't agree at all with Frank Castle's methods).

[–] chainsawbunny-47436 7 years ago

Agreed. I never understood the hate for her either. Besides her "getting everyone killed", some thought she was hideous looking or couldn't act. I think she's good for the role.

[–] dmcreif 7 years ago

some thought she was hideous looking or couldn't act.

The former bit? Yeah, I don't know what those sorts of people smoke, because Deborah Ann Woll is easy on the eyes.

[–] dmcreif 7 years ago

Frankly, I think a lot of the Karen haters are of the same crowd as the people who criticize characters like Skyler from Breaking Bad or Lori from The Walking Dead.

[–] aoxg28 7 years ago

I think those people are sad little folk who have certain high expectations from a character and when those personal criteria aren't met (how could they be), that character becomes the 'worst thing ever'. There is no middle ground for these folk, it's a case of meet my standards or you're nothing.
To be clear, I'm not talking about those who are genuinely critical and bring up genuine issues that they have. I'm talking about those who want the character to die (or whatever) just because they don't like them, irrespective of whether anyone else likes that character. Those who hate a character, or show, just to have something to hate on because they have nothing else to fill their lives.

[–] dmcreif 7 years ago

I think those people are sad little folk who have certain high expectations from a character and when those personal criteria aren't met (how could they be), that character becomes the 'worst thing ever'. There is no middle ground for these folk, it's a case of meet my standards or you're nothing.

Yeah, that has to be where the Karen haters come from.

To be clear, I'm not talking about those who are genuinely critical and bring up genuine issues that they have. I'm talking about those who want the character to die (or whatever) just because they don't like them, irrespective of whether anyone else likes that character. Those who hate a character, or show, just to have something to hate on because they have nothing else to fill their lives.

Yeah, I have some genuine criticisms of Foggy, like, he really should have by season 2 have learned to just accept that Matt had a double life and there would be complications, instead of letting this friction escalate to the point of the firm breaking up.

Likewise, I believe Karen had hatred even before season 1 came out, from those who read the 'Born Again' comic where she sold Matt's identity out for a heroin fix.

[–] Mr_Recchia 7 years ago

I never understood it myself personally. I think Foggy manages to be just the kind of comic relief a show this dismal and dark needs without breaking the tone. A confortable reminder that this is still the same universe where cracking wise is a stable. Karen I get, but I don't agree with. She didn't know her actions would get Ben killed, and she's practically torturing herself over it.

What does an Italian say when he moves to Canada? I use to live in a boot.

[–] dmcreif 7 years ago

Karen I get, but I don't agree with. She didn't know her actions would get Ben killed, and she's practically torturing herself over it.

Karen knew she was taking a big risk deciding to go up against someone as dangerous and connected as Fisk. She's having to torture herself not only over Urich, but over having killed Wesley (the latter being partially a reason for her sympathizing with Frank Castle).

[–] jeremypoolet 7 years ago

If foggy would just get a damn haircut I'd be okay with him. He looks like a Cobain wannabe in junior high in 1996, not a professional lawyer trying to be taken seriously

[–] samhmd-7489 7 years ago

The thing with Karen is that her single biggest impact on the Daredevil comics was becoming a drug addict porn star who sold out Matt's ID for a shot of heroin. This led the the "Born again" storyline and the destruction of Matt's life.

So knowing what her comic character did, it makes people dread that it'll happen here too because it's her characters' defining moment.

[–] dragongirl30 7 years ago

In the beginning of season 1 I found Foggy annoying. As the series went forward I liked him. I like him now just fine and in fact was very annoyed at how Matt treated him in season 2. I have always liked Karen.

[–] Ryker (194) 6 years ago

I don't like the Karen and Matt love story but overall I like Karen and Foggy. Actually liked Karen a lot more in S3.

[–] DracTarashV2 (4479) 6 years ago

I can now say unequivocally that I like their characters more than ever. I never disliked them on this show. Perhaps I might’ve had an issue or two with Karen in season 2+The Punisher, but she’s always been a welcome addition to the show. Though she may have been up to her old tricks again in season 3 (getting into trouble and arguably putting others in harm’s way), we got a better understanding of why she is so strong-willed. And as for Deborah Ann Woll, she was outstanding this season. Foggy, too, was a strong presence this season. A scene stealer at times.

Really glad to have their characters around.

[–] doctorc1970 (271) 5 years ago

To me, it always seems like Foggy is going to cry. Every single time he's on screen.... I can't stand him.