MovieChat Forums > Good Kill (2015) Discussion > Nonsensical film made for moral idiots

Nonsensical film made for moral idiots


Moral idiots are people who don't understand moral philosophy who can't seem to fathom simple logic to reason why a government would conduct drone warfare. There are simply a lot of logical problems in this movie.

- Ethan Hawke's character kills a rapist because he saw him rape (like as if rape = death penalty). But he's upset over kills where he doesn't SEEEEEEE the crimes committed (where the agency is telling him that such and such is a mass murderer; but Ethan hawke doesn't believe it). So his problem is not the drones or the agency. It's the fact that he doesn't see the crimes being committed in front of his eyes.

It shows his stupidity and human nature rather than any reality about drone warfare or agency procedures.

- The cycle of violence - It's not at all a cycle of violence. If you kill 5 terrorists, 5 other kids do not become terrorists because they saw 5 terrorist guys die. It doesn't work that way. This isn't like fighting bacteria. 5 horrible terrorists die, that's 5 less bad guys on the battlefield, their structure is weakened, their organization is weakened, their war effort is weakened. They need to replace it, but what happens when every new recruit becomes another victim? It starts to be a stupid way to fight. It makes more sense to not join that group.

- The drug-war comparison. Drugs are a business. The illegality of drugs, makes it more attractive, violent, and profitable of a business. It's a self-fueling cycle. Terrorism is not the same. The more you kill them, the weaker they become, the less likely they can wage war. They believe in terror not because it's a way of life or business. But because it is their belief. Once the believers of that violent ideology die off, they can't recruit new people.

- The movie focuses on drones. But how is that different with the jet strikes? if you're in an F16 the only difference is you don't get to see the carnage below your plane. The same number of civilians still die. In fact, more civilians die because an F16 does more damage than a hellfire missile.

- When will it end? Wars never last forever. One side has to eventually lose enough recruits and ideological steam that they will not be able to gain enough followers and funds anymore. We have defeated worse ideologies before: Imperial Japanese cult. The cult of Nazism. These were horrific regimes that were much more capable and much smarter and much better equipped than Taliban or ISIS. Why do you think the US can take care of Nazism and Imperial Japan easier than ISIS or Taliban over 70 years ago? In fact, we are more capable now than ever.

The Iraq War had what, 5000 American deaths? That's like a bad afternoon in WWII or WWI. We killed something like 40,000 terrorists. We won the Iraq War, up until we abandoned it and then in 2013, the stupidity of the Iraqi government caused the rise of ISIS.

- It's always our fault. Put troops on the ground, it's our fault. Use airstrikes/dronestrikes instead, it's still our fault. Take prisoners to interrogate, it's our fault. Don't take prisoners and kill them, it's still our fault. It's almost like as if the people arguing against drones and stuff are people who don't approve of ANY war effort by the US. It's like as if they are ideologically opposed to the US. Nothing the US does will please them except if the US is losing/surrendering/ceasefiring.

It's not always US fault. There are plenty of other players, individuals, making THEIR OWN DAAMN CHOICES. Their own moral choices.

They treat women like crap. They strap things on little kids. They plant mines and ieds. They oppress people. They specifically target the innocent, while we accidentally hit the innocent.

- The movie tries to portray the agency as if they intentionally inflict harm on civilians as a "war crime". But where is the evidence of this? Plenty of targets of drone strikes have always had terrorists. It was never "just rescue workers". It was never "just a wedding/funeral" ... It ALWAYS had a mass murderer as the main target.

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- Ethan Hawke's character doesn't believe the Agency.
Well, duh.
- War is Peace.
No, that's not how it works.
- When will it end?
Good question, with no answer in sight. First there was al-Quaida, then Taliban, now ISIS, what next?
- We have defeated worse ideologies
What do you mean by "we", Citizen?
- It's always our fault. Put troops in a foreign country, it's our fault. Use airstrikes/dronestrikes in a foreign country, it's still our fault. Take prisoners in a foreign country to torture, it's our fault.
Now you're beginning to catch on.

"You're innocent when you dream" -- Tom Waits, "You Dream"

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What do you mean by "we", Citizen?

Is that a Starship Troopers reference?



The trouble with this film Good Kill, is when the boss asked 'Do you think if we stop killing them they will stop killing us?'

Either Ethan Hawke or the female soldier should have responded, 'Yes.'



Here is the thing, since the US has been waging a war on terrorism, terrorism seems to have increased. What does the US have to lose by leaving the Middle East? Oh, that's right, I forgot about the oil. Let's just say the oil didn't matter, the US might as well try leaving the Middle East alone and see if terrorism decreases as a result - be the better man, walk away from the fight and see what happens.

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Wow, I'd love to live in your country since you guys have figured out the secrets to life. Where is that exactly?

You're a prick for hoping all Americans in afganistan/Iraq die. Let's not forget there are more than Americans on the ground in those countries.

You're also a moron for steotyping all American soldiers as deluded.

After reading your entire post, one cam safely conclude that you simply hate America because you stereotype the populace because of the bias media and you're own sense of superiority.

So again, I ask where you are from? I'm sure your countries history doesn't include invading other countries, but I'd love to know so I could tell you to *beep* off with your superiority complex.

For the record, I wish the US would tell the world to *beep* off. Tsunamis in southeast Asia- US sends aid. Nuclear catastrophe in Japan- US sends aid. So on and so forth, yet when Katrina hit new Orleans what country sent aid to the US? Right, no countries helped because it's a one way street where other countries bitch until they need help.

Have a good day.

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Forgive the few typos, the mobile app doesn't let you edit posts.

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I'd like to say that a lot of soldiers actually do hate the war, when they get there. They just bought in to the propaganda, as the rest of america did, and sadly some continue to. The soldiers notably sent more donations to Ron Paul than any other candidate combined. He understood how fcked up we are, but the media made sure Ron had no chance to get elected. He would've done something about this, he even blamed 9/11 on america in a presidential debate and got booed horribly. But sadly, Obama has just furthered corporate agenda with these drone strikes. It's not getting any better, just worse.

Just an aside though, you shouldn't argue with most americans about this stuff lol. We get fed so much nonsense to build up these false notions of reality for ourselves and it's really hard to de-plug from the machine. Every kid grows up thinking america is the best country in the world and everything we do is righteous. I know. Don't worry though, every empire is due to collapse and we will get our comeuppance. It's just how nature works.

Btw Ireland is a great country from what I hear. All those scandinavian countries too, idk if you guys are one of them, but they seem to have this society thing pretty figured out. Don't you guys actually have a government representing the people? I know some have this mix of socialism that works really well. America, eh, we have no idea what we're doing out here. A 12 year old kid is killed by a cop, and we call it an 'accidental discharge'.

For me my only hope for the human race is a shift in consciousness, but that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. I just know that if more people believe in the truth about happiness, that it comes from WITHIN, than there are the people of today, who only believe in profit, greed and exploitation; if that day ever comes, we can begin remaking the earth for the better. At the end of the day, humans can try to separate themselves from nature all they want, to be superior to how it works, but we'll forever fail. We run with nature, not through her. Just because we made it out of the jungle doesn't mean we're out of the woods yet.

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Haha I love my country, but not the people running it. I think it would be better if the people rose up against them.

I'm going to turn you police comment around by saying: when the police are attacked by thugs and the thugs get killed. The uneducated call for the crucifixion of the police. It's complete *beep* We have governement officials saying Baltimore needs to let people vent their destruction "in the name of justice" which allowed looters to burn pharmacys, retirement homes, and loot liquor and electronic stores. There's no justice in that, just shameful opportunists.


Sad to say, the country probably won't change because of ignorant majority who hold the intelligent minority under their boots. America will fall because the administrations are rotting it from the inside.

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Sorry but to me that's extremely ignorant as well, though I agree with the rest of your post, and am confused as to how you (like many) can't see the connection between state and policing tactics. The state mandates corrupt, violent police enforcement to counteract their creation of poverty, and to profit from the ensuing mass incarcerations as well.

Don't be so blinded by white american privilege, if I may be so blunt. If you are using my example, you are referring to a 12 year old kid as a thug, and saying the cops were automatically justified in their response to the "attack" by a 12-year old. That example aside, notice your automatic response when I bring up police brutality in america; you assume cops are always in the right, and whoever got shot probably deserved it.

Also to me that example is more of the same antiquated, brush aside of police brutality; you're using the same distraction techniques mass media outlets use. "Look at these vandals! Look at these criminals!" - meanwhile ignoring all the injustice lower class communities have faced for decades. Looting and destruction is never justified, but look at the context and cause if you want the root of your problem, instead of calling everyone thugs and those who stand for change in police procedure as uneducated.

It's strangely hypocritical to be against the status-quo of the government, while supporting their established police state right in front of us.

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Actually, yes I do know people who fought in the wars overseas.

My cousins fought in afganistan and Iraq. They're not war junkies. You speak out of inexperience and little knowledge/media bias about the wars. Do innocent people die? Absolutely and that is a tragedy. Are all soldiers deluded as you have said twice so far? Not at all. My cousin did 5 tours. The reason he volunteered to go back was to look after his comrades (he was a LT) and because he said you could see how the military was helping the country there.

I have been to Tajikistan which is on the border of afganistan. The people there loved America. I volunteered to turn a military outpost into a orphanage. What have you done to help people in other countries?

I say all this because your post did read as a post of someone who thinks their country is better than everyone else's. my family came from Ireland in the late 1800's, so your revealing of that is upsetting since you seem to have been brainswashed by the liberal media and or the conservative media. The truth is found somewhere in between all their *beep*

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Thank you!!!!!! God if I can go my entire life without hearing liberal or conservative I'd die happy. *beep*

And is Ireland really that bad? I know you outlined its dealings and involvement in europe but the standard of living is high, no? Low poverty and crime?

What movie are you referring to? I'm lost.

And yeah it's sad to say but there's still some people out there who actually believe that they attacked us for our freedom. It would be hilarious to mock them, if it wasn't so damn sad lmao. It's just like WTF! They came thousands of miles, risked their lives to hijack jets, when there's a dozen other countries with better democracies than americas that are actually closer???

This is the part that bugs me, "he said you could see how the military was helping the country there" Our military destroyed the middle east, and this is the delusion they feed soldiers to get them to fight. Again I don't mean to demean anyone fighting, they are brave brave men and I know a few myself. But the few I know came back disillusioned. Because there was no justice done there.

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I don't get it either. To me it seems like a form of social control the upper class uses to squash the people's ability to truly make informed decisions on who to put in office. Most of the time one party just points the finger at the other and votes for whoever represents their party. Then when anything goes wrong, you blame it on everyone in the other party. Not the rich, not greed, not corporations, but the other guy. Divide and conquer technique it seems like.

It's funny in america these days, 40% of people actually consider themselves independent after seeing how bad run the country was by both parties. But no one actually votes independent. If they did a dude like Ron Paul would have a chance. But the rich don't want someone who will refuse to further their motives to get richer. So they rn propaganda about how Ron is racist, homophobic, whatever, and the public eats it up. I have a friend that HATES Ron, and I didn't understand it until you see how the media treats him. That's how they rig elections. Tis a shame. Rich basterds are truly insane lol. They think if they could only have all the money in the world they would be happy. And these are the selfish mo-fos that we're stuck really leading us.

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Thank you so much for that I'm downloading it now it looks great. And yeah he's gone to college, and I dropped out lol. Strange how college is meant to open your mind and discover your passions, but usually just results in furthering that kinda black and white thinking.

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FYI: Canada sent a huge amount of aide (including personnel) to Katrina victims under Operation Unison, but were pilloried by US hawks for refusing to invade Iraq over the lie of WMD's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

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I wonder, did you pay attention to the film or were you typing this garbage while it was playing?

In no specific order to your post:
1) he didn't just kill the rapist because he saw the crime. Throughout the course of the film, he becomes more distraught over having no skin in the game. To him, it's nowhere close to a fair fight. Adding to that issue, is the CIA's questionable targets such as the truck with the woman and child sitting the bed. It was all too much for him and killing the rapist was just another step on the road to regaining his humanity (his family).

2) I am American. Having said that, you have to be completely naive to think the US government has never committed war crimes. No government that has ever existed is without war crimes.

3) yes, killing people on their own land will breed hatred which will mean more people to fight against. Striking from a distance was viewed as cowardly in ancient times; their weapons were bows and the archer could usually be seen. How much more so do you think those people view the US for striking from 2 miles up, 7000 miles away, or completely unseen and without the chance to fight back? If they can't put a face on the person attacking (in this instance, the drone pilot), you put it on the people behind the attacker (the US government). It's not a mathematical equation that you can simply add or subtract terrorists til there are none left. Logic should've told you that.

4) the wars will never end. Mankind seems to be incapable of peace.

5) the war on terror is like the war on drugs. Neither cam be one. When the government legalized something like weed, there are still other drugs people use. If you legalize all the known drugs, someone will come up with a new one. As for terrorism, if you destroy Al-Qeida then you have ISIS. If you destroy ISIS, another one will step up. If you somehow managed to destroy all the known terrorist groups, another will form. It won't stop. His comparison is spot on.

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OP put this as your quote so that every time you post something logical people will know not to respond

"We won the Iraq War, up until we abandoned it and then in 2013, the stupidity of the Iraqi government caused the rise of ISIS."

Don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't stand americans who have all the arrogance in the world but not even the basic courtesy to do their own research outside of what the government tells them. We created ISIS, not the iraqi government. There's so much other stuff wrong with your post but it really isn't worth the time to dismantle. You are pretty far into propaganda land.

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I agree with all of your points but calling people idiots doesn't help people understand the reasoning.

Of course people who respond with ad-hominems and other fallacies are just as bad (which is 80% of this thread).

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Well, if dpexecute says so, then it must be right.

Right? Wrong.

For every one militant killed in a drone strike, 30 civilians are killed.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

Since drone strikes kill so many innocent people, militants use the anger against these acts of American state terrorism to recruit people to the jihadi cause.

http://blogs.reuters.com/david-rohde/2013/05/24/obamas-overdue-step-on-drones/

Funnily, when then them "terrorists" hit the twin towers with aircraft, it was "terrorism", but when America kills people indiscriminately, it's not. How do you reconcile that? Is it because Americans love "freedumb" but other human beings don't?

If someone invades the US, Americans have the right to fight back. However, when the US invaded Iraq (which had nothing to do with 9/11), Iraqis are suddenly "terrorists" for fighting back against the American invaders? How do you reconcile this too?


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Freedumb - I like it, its describes the mindset of the extreme capitalist and verging on fascism modern West perfectly. We have the right to fight for (or is that pay for?) our freedumb!

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