MovieChat Forums > Tut (2015) Discussion > Everyone needs to shut up about the race...

Everyone needs to shut up about the race of the Ancient Eygptians


You're looking at them in a modern "racial" context. Has it occurred to any of you that people in the Ancient Past may have had phenotypes we had never really seen with our own eyes? Obviously I don't think most Egyptians were either nordic European or sub-saharan African. Due to the location of North Africa, it's been inhabited by many kind of people from all over. Middle Easterners from the east of Egypt (which is why it's arabized today), Europeans from the North (Cleopatra was a Macedonian Greek). and Yes, Subsaharans from the south. North Africa is also home to indigenous ethnic groups like the Berbers and Tuaregs. Many of them today have this bronze or brown look.

The point is, who really cares what the actors in this look like? I'm not bothered by the casting of Ben Kingsley or Avan Jogia at all. I think they look fine.

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Ancient Egyptian are the same people that are in Egypt today! there a mix of brown and white! oh and the mitani were not BLACKS!
SAMSON WAS NOT BLACK EITHER!
JOHNNY STORM IS NOT BLACK
HEIMDAL IS NOT BLACK
ENOUGH OF THE BLACK'S IN EVERYTHING!
WHAT IS NEXT A WHITE ZULU

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Ancient Egyptian are the same people that are in Egypt today!


Wrong

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Any prooves the "true" Egyptians were mysteriously "replaced" by those who live there now?

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Whenever a movie is whitewashing history, it's only a matter of time before some idiot starts a thread and a circle jerk of white people who think everyone else should stop whining whilst simultaneously being suspiciously mad about other people pointing out a real problem begins.

I'd make it a drinking game, but I'd be a full fledged alcoholic in no time.

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This is the internet there will always be people looking to be offended there will always be those who want to live in the past and live by excuses and drama.

The worst part is they refuse to see that the racist don't matter. And maybe even worse when they see someone of color succeeding and doing so well like my wife and our friends they always habe choice words for them too. There will always be people unwilling to push forward because they haave become slaves to those that pretend to value them but really just want tonuse them.

Either live your own lives and move forward and succeed or don't your life live it the way you want to folks. Waste time and energy arguing over inane issues like who is cast in a Spike Tv show or move forward. Think about that for 1 minute- it is flippin Spike TV can you think of a less wasteful topic to get angry about? Holy smoke folks. Together we could be so strong stop letting USERS control you.

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Seriously this really is a horrible series and people are expecting it to be some kind of accurate portrayal? I am embarrassed for Ben Kingsley because the entire show is one horrible line and bad acting moment after another and people are getting upset over race.

Can't we all agree- regardless of race- that this show is
HORRIBLE? Let's all join forces on that point and go from there.

One last thing- as a white man married to a "woman of color" I will shelter, protect, defend any person of any color or race or religion as long as they are good and decent to others. Simple as that and it really is that simple- be good to the man or woman next to you.
Always.

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The other day, my daughter asked me what colour God was, she is white, has a lot of friends many colours between black and white, while i pondered a good answer, she said" oh well, I hope he is green because that is my favourite colour"

enough said.

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life_magazine_rameses
http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/brandonpilcher/life_magazine_rameses.jpg

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The ancient egyptians came from varied regions but the bulk seems to have been lower nubia.
Phenotype wise on average they seem to look alot more like ethiopians.
For most ancient egyptians any admixture was mostly with
other african blacks.

Egypt had varied phenotypes and all could be found in africa with out admixture.

There was admixture in egypt but that happen overtime.So it's not correct to say that egyptians on average were mix from the beginning from outsiders.
The outside element in early egypt was small and mostly in lower egypt.The bulk or most of the population live in upper egypt and the numbers were just not there for widespread mixing.
Most of the widespread mixing happen much later in egypt's history.





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"However, as is well known and accepted, rapid evolution can occur. Also, rapid change in northeast Africa might be specifically anticipated because of the possibilities for punctuated microevolution (secondary to severe micro-selection and drift) in the early Holocene Sahara, because of the isolated communities and cyclical climatic changes there, and their possible subsequent human effects. The earliest southern predynastic culture, Badari, owes key elements to post-desiccation Saharan and also perhaps "Nubian" immigration (Hassan 1988). Biologically these people were essentially the same (see above and discussion; Keita 1990).-- S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54.


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Previous analyses of cranial variation found the Badari and Early Predynastic Egyptians to be more similar to other African groups than to Mediterranean or European populations (Keita, 1990; Zakrzewski, 2002). In addition, the Badarians have been described as near the centroid of cranial and dental variation among Predynastic and Dynastic populations studied (Irish, 2006; Zakrzewski, 2007). This suggests that, at least through the Early Dynastic period, the inhabitants of the Nile valley were a continuous population of local origin, and no major migration or replacement events occurred during this time.


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Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). A craniometric study found the Naqada and Kerma populations to be morphologically similar (Keita, 1990). Given these and other prior studies suggesting continuity (Berry et al., 1967; Berry and Berry, 1972), and the lack of archaeological evidence of major migration or population replacement during the Neolithic transition in the Nile valley, we may cautiously interpret the dental health changes over time as primarily due to ecological, subsistence, and demographic changes experienced throughout the Nile valley region."


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The land currently known as Egypt has a long and involved population history. This is partly due to its geographical location at the crossroads of several major cultural areas: the Mediterranean, the Middle East, the Sahara and East Africa. In addition Egypt has experienced several invasions during its long history, including by the Canaanites, the Libyans, the Nubians, the Assyrians, the *beep* the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans and the Arabs. The various conquests over time have made the relationship between Modern Egyptians and Ancient Egyptians a topic of investigation.


Anthropologist Nancy Lovell states the following:
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"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sub Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."


"must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography."



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In 2008 Keita found that the early predynastic groups in Southern Egypt were similar craniometrically to Nile valley groups of Ethiopic extraction, and as a whole the dynastic Egyptians (includes both Upper and Lower Egyptians) show much closer affinities more southerly Northeast African populations. He also concluded that more material is needed to make a firm conclusion about the relationship between the early Holocene Nile valley populations and later ancient Egyptians.


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The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Egypt rapidly found a method of disciplining the river, the land, and the people to transform the country into a titanic garden. Egypt rapidly developed detailed cultural forms that dwarfed its forebears in urbanity and elaboration. Thus, when new details arrived, they were rapidly adapted to the vast cultural superstructure already present. On the other hand, pharaonic culture was so bound to its place near the Nile that its huge, interlocked religious, administrative, and formal structures could not be readily transferred to relatively mobile cultures of the desert, savanna, and forest. The influence of the mature pharaonic civilizations of Egypt and Kush was almost confined to their sophisticated trade goods and some significant elements of technology. Nevertheless, the religious substratum of Egypt and Kush was so similar to that of many cultures in southern Sudan today that it remains possible that fundamental elements derived from the two high cultures to the north live on.--Joseph O. Vogel (1997)

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...The whole matter of black or white Egyptians is a chimera, cultural baggage from our own society that can only be imposed artificially on ancient Egyptian society. The ancient Egyptians, like their modern descendants, were of varying complexions of color, from the light Mediterranean type (like Nefertiti), to the light brown of Middle Egypt, to the darker brown of Upper Egypt, to the darkest shade around Aswan and the First Cataract region, where even today, the population shifts to Nubian.


The evidence regarding these features of ancient Egyptians comes from literature, anthropology, mummies, sculptures, paintings and inscriptions—all left by the ancient Egyptians themselves. For example, the mummies and skeletons of ancient Egyptians indicate they were Africans of the Afro-Asiatic ethnic grouping (the term “Afro-Asiatic” has displaced the less accurate designation “Hamitic”). This is the population of Northern Africa, the Sahara and sub-Sahara regions. Their physical features vary as described above. No doubt, many darker-colored
Egyptians would be called black in our modern, race-conscious terminology....


...Among the foreigners, the Nubians were closest ethnically to the Egyptians. In the late predynastic period (c. 3700–3150 B.C.E.), the Nubians shared the same culture as the Egyptians and even evolved the same pharaonic political structure. The Libyans were also closely related to the Egyptians, living in the oases west of Egypt; ethnically the Libyans were Berbers. In the historic periods, both Nubians and Libyans readily moved into Egypt and were integrated into the Egyptian populace....

...When members of the royal family were descended from such foreign populations or from border areas, pharaonic sculpture and reliefs clearly display their ethnic features. For example, the XIIth Dynasty (1991–1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty that decreed that no Neh\sy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies....






I'm Black and Egyptian, Not White - YouTube
Mostafa Hefny has been fighting the US government for decades to be classified as black.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XUPZokMb6A

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