MovieChat Forums > Mr. Holmes (2015) Discussion > How come Holmes never had children?

How come Holmes never had children?


It always puzzled me perhaps due to his personality.

reply

Or his sexuality? ;)

reply

Sherlock Holmes wasn't gay, supposedly. There was no indication of that. In fact, he fell in love once...lady with red hair in one of the stories.

reply

He didn't. You're either thinking of "A Scandal of Bohemia" where he learned to be more respectful and less dismissive of women, or (more likely) the Copper Beeches", where he respected his female client and Watson hoped something would come of it.

The Shadow knows...

reply

The first two posters proposed that Holmes had no children because of his personality or sexuality. So, a person is likely selfish or gay if he doesn't make babies? Consider this possibility: he simply had no interest in children and didn't see any reason to have them.

reply

Or his sexuality? ;)

Yes. Per the original stories, Sherlock Holmes was asexual, having no romantic interests whatsoever. The closest he ever came to having romantic feelings for a woman was when he crossed wits with Irene Adler, and even that was more a professional respect than anything else. Otherwise, he was entirely occupied with intellectual pursuits.

reply

yeah, if you go by the Robert Downey Jr. movies, both Holmes and Watson are apparently gay.

reply

He is an apex-mind. A lot of people that were masters of their fields had little time for leisure activities such as dating because they were passionate about their work. Further, they probably felt that their families would be neglected and so abstained.

Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad

reply

Well, according to some detective fiction theorists; Nero Wolfe was supposed to be the son of Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler

reply

Nah. She was in one Doyle book and there he only met Irene when he was in disguise. Even at the end Watson said he never had any love for her.

Sherlock is asexual. Interested in case and problems only - so love or even sex wasn't something he wanted at all.

http://werewolvesbeatingadeadhorse.blogspot.com/

reply

"In 1956 John D. Clark put forth a theory in the Baker Street Journal that Nero Wolfe was the offspring of an affair between Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler (a character from A Scandal in Bohemia). Clark suggested that the two had had an affair in Montenegro in 1892 (when Holmes was on the run from the remainder of Moriarty's gang; particularly Colonel Sebastian Moran), and that Nero Wolfe was the result. The idea was later co-opted by William S. Baring-Gould, who wrote the book, 'Nero Wolfe of West 35th Street' which further expounded on the theory".

There is also a curious coincidence: in the names "Sherlock Holmes" and "Nero Wolfe", the vowels appear in the same order. In 1957 Ellery Queen called this "The Great O-E Theory".

Of course they were all literary characters and never existed but both are worthwhile theories by these two long time Baker Street Irregulars.

reply

If you read A Scandal In Bohemia it's made clear that Holmes has no interest in relationships or women. He sees all that as being a distraction from solving mysteries. He had a certain admiration for Irene Adler because she outsmarted him.

reply

I have indeed read 'A Scandal in Bohemia' as well as the complete Holmes canon many times and know them very well.
Holmes also referred to Irene Adler as 'The Woman' and keeps her photo as payment.
She is not seen again but mentioned in other stories; 'The Blue Carbuncle', 'A Case of Identity', to name but two.

As the narrator of most of the stories, it is Watson who makes it clear "that Holmes has no interest in relationships or women. He sees all that as being a distraction from solving mysteries. He had a certain admiration for Irene Adler because she outsmarted him.", not Holmes himself, so Baring Gould's and John D Clark's theories are interesting and it's fun to theorise.
Read some of Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe Stories and draw your own conclusions.

I love the Holmes stories and have since boyhood but Conan Doyle only used him as a cash cow to finance other ventures and treated his history in a very cavalier way, contradicting himself quite a number of times in the later stories.
He even told the actor William Gillette, that "You may marry him, murder him, or do anything you like to him.", so again Holmes patronage of Nero Wolfe is entirely plausible.
Happy reading :-)

reply

I am afraid I simply don't see it and disagree. Holmes, through most of the stories is depicted as a person "married" to his work. Of course, Holmes flat out lies a lot about himself and Watson is shown to be an unreliable narrator. However, overall I believe that the evidence is fairly overwhelming on the side that Holmes is asexual, or, at the very least, uninterested in romance and procreation.

reply

Of course, Holmes flat out lies a lot about himself and Watson is shown to be an unreliable narrator.


As pointed out in this film, the books are the way Watson sees him - not necessarily the way he really is. In reality, Holmes was an unhappy person, evidenced by his drug use to deal with 'boredom'. He was unable to have relationships with people, other than his work-related one with Watson, and used drugs to deal with his loneliness when not working a case.

reply

Nah. She was in one Doyle book and there he only met Irene when he was in disguise. Even at the end Watson said he never had any love for her.

Sherlock is asexual. Interested in case and problems only - so love or even sex wasn't something he wanted at all.




DING DING DING!!!

We have a correct answer.

reply

I think one exercise in reading the Holmes canon is to try and separate Watson from Doyle. It isn't just "here is a story". Doyle wrote Watsons stories as written from memory inside the universe of Sherlock Holmes often years after they happened. Even if we accept that the case progressed the way Watson tells it, which we necessarily must, Watson writes the stories the way he understands them, the way he has been told something happened, or the way that makes sense to him. He puts focus one place, spins another, misunderstands this and over/underplays that. So while he presents the case correctly enough, a lot of details have been forgotten, rewritten or put into new context.

My interpretation of Bohemia is, Watson gets Holmes wrong, when it comes to Irene Adler. In fact, I think a common theme of the series is that the way Watson sees Holmes doesn't always align with what Holmes actually does.

reply

He never married. Although he was in love once.

reply

[deleted]

I think this sums it up: "To Sherlock Holmes she is always the woman. I have seldom heard him mention her under any other name. In his eyes she eclipses and predominates the whole of her sex. It was not that he felt any emotion akin to love for Irene Adler. All emotions, and that one particularly, were abhorrent to his cold, precise but admirably balanced mind. He was, I take it, the most perfect reasoning and observing machine that the world has seen, but as a lover he would have placed himself in a false position. He never spoke of the softer passions, save with a gibe and a sneer. They were admirable things for the observer--excellent for drawing the veil from men's motives and actions. But for the trained reasoner to admit such intrusions into his own delicate and finely adjusted temperament was to introduce a distracting factor which might throw a doubt upon all his mental results. Grit in a sensitive instrument, or a crack in one of his own high-power lenses, would not be more disturbing than a strong emotion in a nature such as his. And yet there was but one woman to him, and that woman was the late Irene Adler, of dubious and questionable memory." Arthur Conan Doyle, "A Scandal in Bohemia"

reply

Sherlock was supposed to be the idea of a genius at that time and a perfectionist. In psychology a perfectionist typically ends up mentally paralyzed. That's due to placing so many demands on themselves and life that everything is dissatisfying and not worth doing.

In the stories Sherlock has a brother who is smarter than he is and just spends his days sitting in a chair in a men's club because he's paralyzed mentally.

Sherlock doesn't really like women or relationships for this reason. He's not sexual because all of that would be too messy, boring, and would require calm that he doesn't really have.

He's too hyper and uncomfortable for a relationship and tends to fall into miserable periods of boredom when exciting stuff isn't happening. So, he could never deal with being a partner to a woman or a father.

reply

In the stories Sherlock has a brother who is smarter than he is and just spends his days sitting in a chair in a men's club because he's paralyzed mentally.

I'm assuming you've never read the stories, because while Mycroft Holmes is depicted as a bit of a sloth, he was never "paralyzed mentally". In fact, he is shown to be Sherlock's intellectual superior but lacks his younger brother's ambition and thrill for the hunt. In the stories, he holds an unnamed position in the British government, although Sherlock says he is vital to its operation, and on occasion Mycroft is the British government.

Here's an excerpt from "The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans":

"By the way, do you know what Mycroft is?"

I had some vague recollection of an explanation at the time of the Adventure of the Greek Interpreter.

"You told me that he had some small office under the British government."

Holmes chuckled.

"I did not know you quite so well in those days. One has to be discreet when one talks of high matters of state. You are right in thinking that he under the British government. You would also be right in a sense if you said that occasionally he IS the British government."

"My dear Holmes!"

"I thought I might surprise you. Mycroft draws four hundred and fifty pounds a year, remains a subordinate, has no ambitions of any kind, will receive neither honour nor title, but remains the most indispensable man in the country."

"But how?"

"Well, his position is unique. He has made it for himself. There has never been anything like it before, nor will be again. He has the tidiest and most orderly brain, with the greatest capacity for storing facts, of any man living. The same great powers which I have turned to the detection of crime he has used for this particular business. The conclusions of every department are passed to him, and he is the central exchange, the clearinghouse, which makes out the balance. All other men are specialists, but his specialism is omniscience. We will suppose that a minister needs information as to a point which involves the Navy, India, Canada and the bimetallic question; he could get his separate advices from various departments upon each, but only Mycroft can focus them all, and say offhand how each factor would affect the other. They began by using him as a short-cut, a convenience; now he has made himself an essential. In that great brain of his everything is pigeon-holed and can be handed out in an instant. Again and again his word has decided the national policy. He lives in it. He thinks of nothing else save when, as an intellectual exercise, he unbends if I call upon him and ask him to advise me on one of my little problems."

reply

I don't think that Holmes was ever meant to be a family man. He has great rapport with the boy in this. And he always had boy runners in the traditional Holmes stories. But he is an avuncular figure rather than a fatherly one.

reply