Where was Gene Wilder???
Anyone...???
sharegreat question you would think he would have been included to add some insight on richards personality , i mean they were a team for a couple movies , they went hand in hand so why is he OMITED from this documentary. maybe racism ? it was implied that as soon as pryor started making " white films" like the one he played a puppet in spelled the end of his career. who knows
heres a link on gene working with him :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ptlrpLuks
and in this one richard calls gene a fag but i think he was joking :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvSgPowOO8c
I saw an interview with Gene Wilder once where he said that he and Richard Pryor liked each other, but "were not that close". I got the impression their relationship was strictly on set and professional. I suspect Richard Pryor had a kind of professional respect for Wilder, and maybe didn't want to spoil their successful working relationship by exposing too much of his personal life and flaws to him. Since the documentary was so focused on Pryor's personal life, Maybe the producers didn't think that Mr. Wilder had all that much to contribute. Just my opinion.
shareYeah I mean just because they've done a couple movies together doesn't mean they had to be close personal friends. I guess we as the audience kind of forget that sometimes. They sold it well. :)
sharePryor and Wilder are synonymous to many people, when they think of Richard Pryor they think of his movies with Wilder, which were very successful and were probably his funniest and came when Pryor was at his career peek. To not mention him at all is so bizarre.
I know the documentary was very poignant on emphasizing Pyror's black empowerment beliefs and his brave pro black stances when there were not that common in show business but these actions seemed to be his downfall. When he hired his all black team and black agent and business people they stole millions from him.
I think the same thing happened in this documentary. It's almost as if they wanted to distance themselves from the white Gene Wilder and had some resentment that the combination of a black man and a white man helped elevate his career. Ignoring the fact that he even made those 4 movies with Gene Wilder , which made him a superstar, is very puzzling.
I very much doubt it was a race issue as there were many caucasian people from Pryor's life who were interviewed. My guess is that Wilder didn't know Pryor other than professionally and didn't have much to say about Pryor other than he was drunk and stoned on set sometimes.
BE YOUR OWN FANBOY
I think it's a shame he's not in there, but it's probably something as simple as not being available for some reason. A documentary on Richard Pryor without Gene Wilder is like a documentary on Ali without Frazier. They were in 4 films together.
shareThe documentary had plenty of white and black comedians who knew Pryor closely. He identified himself as a stand up comic before an actor.
The fact that Gene Wilder wasn't in the documentary shows that their relationship was more professional/business than personal. Nothing wrong with that. No one can force a relationship that wasn't there.
No two persons ever watch the same movie.share
It is still odd that Wilder's not even mentioned because he was a big part of Pryor's career. Just because they weren't friends doesn't mean he should get erased from Pryor's story. I can only guess that Wilder not only turned the producers down but also told them not to mention his name.
George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.
I just watched it and Wilder and the movies he did with Pryor do get a mention. Who knows why he didn't participate but Wilder can't force people to not mention or show movies just because he was in said movies.
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They would need his permission to show footage of him. That's a basic legal thing. I didn't say anything about "forcing". I don't remember if they showed footage of him but if they didn't it could be because they didn't have his permission.
George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.
They DEFINITELY showed footage of him and if the image in question was taken as part of him doing his job he wouldn't have the rights to said image (unless he was a producer of said project) and they wouldn't need his permission. You're wrong on both counts.
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1) Carl Weathers refused to allow clips of himself as Apollo Creed in "Rocky Balboa". If you look at the clips of Rocky vs Apollo Creed, the black man is not Carl Weathers. Stallone had to use a replacement. If Stallone was allowed to use the clips, he certainly would have.
2) Matthew Perry refused to allow clips of himself in a terrible pilot he did in one of those "Before they were stars" shows.
3) Mia Farrow refused to allow clips of herself in the documentary "Woody Allen: Life in Film"
Those are just three examples off the top of my head. You do have the right to protect your image. Otherwise, people can take your image and use it to promote things that you might not want to be associated with. Which is a basic injustice. Being an actor that does not mean you can be "forced" to appear in other people's projects against your will.
I never said that they didn't use clips of Wilder. I said that I didn't remember if they did. If they did, then they had his permission.
George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.
Could you please cite references that anything you said is true. Production companies use people's images from movies all the time and I'm pretty sure they don't ask all the actors involved to agree to have their images used. Hell, paparazzi take and use pictures of these people living their real lives and need no permission.
BE YOUR OWN FANBOY
"Apollo Creed is not in ROCKY BALBOA because he wanted many thousands of dollars for a two-second piece of he and Rocky boxing," said Stallone. "Unfortunately, we couldn't afford it. Then again, whatever happened to loyalty? Apollo Greed?"
According to Stallone, Carl Weathers does not appear in the film because Weathers wanted a role in the film, even though his character Apollo Creed had died in ROCKY IV; Stallone refused, so Weathers refused to grant Stallone permission to use archive footage of him. The brief clip of the fight between Rocky and Apollo was recreated using a body double.
For reasons that should be familiar enough to readers without further comment, Mia Farrow refused to allow any of her scenes to be used -- meaning that, for example, Hannah and Her Sisters was represented minus a single closeup or longshot of the titular Hannah.
Mia Farrow opts out of Woody documentary
Mr Schickel, a movie historian and the film critic for Time magazine, this week told USA Today that the actor rang him personally to demand that all the clips she featured in be removed from his documentary. He says that while Farrow is proud of her work in Allen's films, "she doesn't want to do anything that aids Woody's career". In its stripped-down, selective version, Woody Allen: A Life in Film is due to air on American TV on May 4.
"We had some pilots that we couldn't get cleared, like LAX 2194. That starred Matthew Perry, but he wouldn't let us use his image," says Goldberg. "There are a thousand unsold pilots with George Clooney, but he wouldn't license us to use his image, as opposed to Tom Selleck, who said, 'Hey, I think it's great, use whichever of my pilots you want.'
"Every big star has done pilots or guest-starred in a pilot, but clearing it [for air] can be hell."
I guess I stand correct regarding actors controlling their images but Gene Wilder was definitely in the documentary in question. Give it another watch and pay closer attention and you'll see. I clearly remember Gene Wilder pretending in black face getting a lesson on how to act black from Richard Pryor in the movie "Silver Streak".
BE YOUR OWN FANBOY
You guess so? Like I said, I never said clips of Wilder did or did not appear in the film. That is an argument you're having with yourself, apparently.
You're really good at just making stuff with nothing to back it up and presenting it as fact. You ever consider working for Fox News?
George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.
Yeah, you never definitively said Wilder did or did not appear in the film. What you did say was that you weren't sure. When people aren't sure what happened in a film they saw, I suggest that they should pay more attention when they are watching films. I'm not having any argument with anyone. I'm sure Wilder was in the film so there is no argument.
BE YOUR OWN FANBOY
OK I'll pay more attention so that I will never forget any moment from any film that I've ever watched.
George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.
We're not just talking about "any moment" in the film. It was the appearance of a pretty famous actor whose inclusion in the film was important enough to you that you felt the need to comment on how you didn't see him in the film.
If I was watching a biographical documentary where I thought the inclusion of a pretty famous actor was so important in said documentary that if he wasn't included I would think it was odd, it would be pretty hard for me not to notice when said pretty famous actor appeared in the documentary. But that's just me.
BE YOUR OWN FANBOY
I said I'd pay more attention. What more do you want? Look, I know it sucks to be proven wrong but we don't need to keep this going. But if it makes you feel better, you're right. I should have paid more attention to Gene Wilder's appearance in the film because it was a very important part of said film. OK?
George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.
Wow, you seem really upset. Calm down. This is not that big a deal. I responded to your previous post because it came off as sarcastic. For the record, it wasn't just a moment though. It was practically an entire scene from Silver Streak with commentary from a talking head. It is pretty weird to not notice that entire scene and then complain that Gene Wilder wasn't in the movie at all. Being proven wrong is actually a blessing in my book since it means you've also learned something new and/or unlearned and untruth. Just my two cents.
BE YOUR OWN FANBOY
They were not friends. Read an interview(cant remember where, sorry) that said he got very annoyed with Pryor's behavior on set as he used to turn up drunk and stoned.
i thought this was america? huh isnt this america, im sorry i thought this was america
I just watched it and felt that not even mentioning Wilder was kind of lame.
shareMaybe Wilder simply declined to participate...
shareDingdingding!
We have a winner!
That is not even the point if he did or did not. I was referring to where Gene Wilder and those movies were represented in the documentary. He was not mentioned nor the fact that 4 movies were made with the two . THEY WERE A TEAM. how many stars have made 4 movies with the same co star. Not many. Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan?
Gene Wilder did not have to be interviewed personally and for you to think you know the answer by saying " dingdingdin" to the notion that he declined the interview is stupid. He was probably never asked more likely.
How funny it was that Pryor decided to dissociated with white people in business because he felt he was being cheated , meanwhile his black agent stole millions from him. But his racism didn't apply to white women as 5 of his wives were white. Interesting.
Given the sheer number of people who didn't appear in the film for carious reasons, Gene Wilder was the least glaring omission, really. The clips including Wilder from Blazing Saddles (okay, Pryor as writer rather than star, with the actual presence of Mel Brooks to explain why that happened) and Silver Streak that were included weren't sufficient?
"Team" as they may have been, Pryor certainly gave Wilder plenty of cause for wanting to stay away:
Wilder has lamented Pryorโs diva-like antics on film sets and has written about their distant relationship.
โWe were never good friends, contrary to popular belief. We turned it on for the camera, then turned it off. He was a pretty unpleasant person to be around during the time we worked together. He was going through his drug problems then and didnโt want a friendship outside of what we did on the screen,โ Wilder once said.
And many close to Pryor, like his writing partner Paul Mooney, have suggested the late comedian never cared for his co-star. Pryor occasionally mocked Wilder in his stand-up and in an infamous (and some have suggested drug-fueled) on-set 1980 interview (http://flavorwire.com/369513/richard-pryors-most-fascinating-movie-is- a-13-minute-youtube-video), which has become a viral video sensation, he implied Wilder was gay.
I dunno if they recut the documentary after you watched it or something but the version of the doc that I just watched mentions Wilder and the movies he did with Pryor while showing clips from said movies as a person being interviewed suggests that said movies were likely blueprints for all the interracial buddy pictures that came out after.
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That seems like the most logical conclusion.He is today reclusive to an almost Garbo like imitation, but in the few public appearences he have made he seems to suggest that he is willing to contribute if he have something important to say, and decline if he havent.
That seems to suggest seclusion based on being humble more than a diva, but we have far to little facts to go on at this time.
That seems like the most logical conclusion.He is today reclusive to an almost Garbo like imitation, but in the few public appearances he have made he seems to suggest that he is willing to contribute if he have something important to say, and decline if he haven't.
That seems to suggest seclusion based on being humble more than a diva, but we have far to little facts to go on at this time.
Hi! Hi Richard! Remember me?! From the movies?! I'm sorry I can't be with you tonight but I think you'll be happy with the reason why. I'm hole'd up here tying to put the finishing touches on that film I'm writing for us. The one we've talked about so much. The Story of the Flying Walendas - A tale of life, death, and comedy on the flying trapeze! We're trying to get Dolly Parton and Roseanne Arnold to star with us so... Keep your fingers crossed.
You know, it occurred to me yesterday, that even though we've made 4 movies together over 15 years and most people think we know each other very well, we really don't. Do we Richard? It seems strange to say. And when I ask myself what do I know about you, the answer always comes back I know the me that's inside you. Or rather, I know the you that's inside me. Someone who's both shy and aggressive. Someone who is always sad AND siblimely happy.
If someone were to ask me, why I love you, the answer is something you might not expect.
- Do you remember one day, during our lunch break during See No Evil Hear No Evil, I took you to the Museum of Modern Art to see the painting by Van Gogh called Starry Night? Do you remember Richard? And a PR women sat with us on the ride over and you were very cool towards her. When we got out of the car you said Was I rude to that lady? And I said, Yeah. A little. Why was that?. And you said, I was jealous of her. I didn't want her intruding on our time together.
That's one reason why I love you. That you could say something like that right out loud.
- And then we stood in front of Starry Night. And I was nervous waiting for your reaction. And after about 5 or 6 seconds you said, Good. (Audience laughs). That's nice. And then all of a sudden, you wandered over to another painting by someone I never even heard of. And you called out to me, Gene! Oh Gene! Look at this! Did you ever see anything like this in your life?! And now that other painter is one of my favorites.
- Last but not least, I love you because you're silly. And you don't apologize for it.
You know, the great danger of an evening like this is that there can be a terrible letdown the next day after a night of such elation. But I don't think that will happen to you. Most actors hear the applause and think it's because everyone loves them. But it's really their performance they love.
But in your case, it's not only your performances we love. We do actually, love you. Even if we don't know you very well.
by EnglishSummer ยป 3 days ago (Wed Feb 11 2015 12:00:34)
I had to watch the tape again and transcribed Gene's speech to Richard below. This aired in 1991 on CBS. The speech is 3 minutes long and you can see him referencing the TelePrompter a few times during the speech.
The video postcard fades in after Keenan Ivory Wayans' speech to Richard about what Richard meant to him and how he wants to finally meet him for the first time and say thank you.
Gene Wilder seen typing away at a typewriter surrounded by a desk full of balled up papers. Looks up.
Hi! Hi Richard! Remember me?! From the movies?! I'm sorry I can't be with you tonight but I think you'll be happy with the reason why. I'm hole'd up here tying to put the finishing touches on that film I'm writing for us. The one we've talked about so much. The Story of the Flying Walendas - A tale of life, death, and comedy on the flying trapeze! We're trying to get Dolly Parton and Roseanne Arnold to star with us so... Keep your fingers crossed.
You know, it occurred to me yesterday, that even though we've made 4 movies together over 15 years and most people think we know each other very well, we really don't. Do we Richard? It seems strange to say. And when I ask myself what do I know about you, the answer always comes back I know the me that's inside you. Or rather, I know the you that's inside me. Someone who's both shy and aggressive. Someone who is always sad AND siblimely happy.
If someone were to ask me, why I love you, the answer is something you might not expect.
- Do you remember one day, during our lunch break during See No Evil Hear No Evil, I took you to the Museum of Modern Art to see the painting by Van Gogh called Starry Night? Do you remember Richard? And a PR women sat with us on the ride over and you were very cool towards her. When we got out of the car you said Was I rude to that lady? And I said, Yeah. A little. Why was that?. And you said, I was jealous of her. I didn't want her intruding on our time together.
That's one reason why I love you. That you could say something like that right out loud.
- And then we stood in front of Starry Night. And I was nervous waiting for your reaction. And after about 5 or 6 seconds you said, Good. (Audience laughs). That's nice. And then all of a sudden, you wandered over to another painting by someone I never even heard of. And you called out to me, Gene! Oh Gene! Look at this! Did you ever see anything like this in your life?! And now that other painter is one of my favorites.
- Last but not least, I love you because you're silly. And you don't apologize for it.
You know, the great danger of an evening like this is that there can be a terrible letdown the next day after a night of such elation. But I don't think that will happen to you. Most actors hear the applause and think it's because everyone loves them. But it's really their performance they love.
But in your case, it's not only your performances we love. We do actually, love you. Even if we don't know you very well.
Audience claps, fade back to Eddie Murphy introducing Stevie Wonder.
As for Richard's reaction, after watching it again they just have a clip of Richard clapping and smiling in the crowd after the speech is over. There are no reaction shots of Richard during the speech unfortunately.
Thanks Milkyway. It was as heartfelt as it looks. His comment about the movie at the beginning was sarcastic though. You can hear the audience laugh when he says "Keep your fingers crossed".
shareWilder retired several years ago from "Show Business" and may not have been available to be interviewed.
shareThis is an interesting discussion. Going back to a A Party for Richard Pryor everyone was in attendance for the event - James Brown, hosted by Eddie Murphy, Dick Gregory, but the only one not present was Gene Wilder. Rather, he gave a video postcard if I recall. It's interesting Richard's live reaction to the video. But of all the people paying tribute I would have expected Gene to be there.
It may be as people have posted here, that this was a high time for Pryor's career and a successful one, they had great partnership on all the movies they did. But that doesn't mean Gene was pleased with the films he did during that time or that it even meant they were the best of friends. But in the video tribute, Gene's message is a humble one, where you get the feeling their relationship (professional or personal) was deeper than what the media or any interviewer for that matter would be able to understand.
by EnglishSummer
It's interesting Richard's live reaction to the video.
The filmmakers could have interviewed Wilder and none of his soundbites may have fit into the narrative. Or maybe he didn't want to go down memory lane. He's been a bit of a recluse this century.
share