MovieChat Forums > Muppets Most Wanted (2014) Discussion > The Muppets are dead

The Muppets are dead

posted 10 years ago by HereComesMadness
23 replies | jump to latest

The previous movie wasn't a hit, but they pushed it with another one anyway. Some things are just relics of the past, you can't make everything a hit with each generation. Look at Peabody and Sherman for example. Another ancient property that's a flop with the kids. There used to be a time when B-list celebs doing a Muppet movie meant their career was in the dumps, that's the only thing that still carried over I guess.

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No one is on my ignore list, because I'm not a pussy
Formerly, HereComesSadness

[–] TrevorAclea 10 years ago

The previous movie wasn't a hit

Budget: $45m
Worldwide gross: $165m
US home video sales: $53m

"Security - release the badgers."

[–] angelx 10 years ago

It's safe to say it WAS a hit.

[–] Vlad_Frost 10 years ago

That's not a hit. Any other movie would be labeled a flop if it only made $165 million world wide in its entire run. There sure are a lot of double standards around here. $165 Million in total worldwide for a movie in a franchise as widely known as The Muppets is unheard of. That's absolutely insane.

I just don't get it though. Why aren't these movies popular with families? I mean come on, Mr. Peabody and Sherman has made over $180 Million worldwide already, and I wouldn't call that a massive success. It's pretty embarrassing to see it demolishing The Muppets.

I hope you're just mistaken though and that $165 Million is domestic, not worldwide. That's an embarrassingly low for a worldwide take for a franchise film.

I AM NOT VLADMUS ANYMORE I AM NOT VLADMUS ANYMORE

[–] deepmilk 10 years ago

$165 million isn't a success. $180 million isn't a success. Do you actually understand anything about money?

[–] angelx 10 years ago

It only cost $45 million to make. $165 million worldwide + $53 million in sales means that it is generated a lot of profits. Lots of profits = HIT.

[–] HereComesMadness 10 years ago

When you add in print and marketing costs, that number starts to dwindle. If it did make money, it was probably a minor profit. That should have been a hint to take the money and run. The Muppets haven't been relevant in years, and trying to make a modern franchise from them was a bad idea. This isn't the 70s anymore.

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No one is on my ignore list, because I'm not a pussy
Formerly, HereComesSadness

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] perc2100 10 years ago

But when you also add in ancillary products, it made A LOT more. It's kind of like the ideas behind CARS 2 (and the recently announced CARS 3): even if the films bomb (which they won't), they will sell a billion dollars in toys. The Muppets put a huge family franchise back in the marketplace, and have been able to make millions on Animal and Kermit toys and t-shirts. To say that THE MUPPETS made a 'minor profit' at best is naive. Merchandising, back-catalog DVDs, etc. is HUGE business, and THE MUPPETS put The Muppets back in the collective conscious of the world, which then bought t-shirts, toys, and other junk.

[–] lunatroid 10 years ago

The Muppets don't make squat in merchandising. Fact.

[–] FlyingSaucersAreReal 10 years ago

It grossed nearly four times it's budget, and that's not including things like home video. It was a profitable movie, even when you take those things into account.

You have to consider the budget of the movie, when it comes to whether it was a success or not. 165 million for a 200 million dollar movie would mean failure, but for a movie that doesn't have any major stars or a huge budget it's not bad at all. Kevin Smith's movies rarely make over 30 million, yet he keeps getting funding for them because they rarely cost more than 5-10 million.

[–] lunatroid 10 years ago

Nope. What generated a second film were the critical reviews and the Oscar nom/win. Disney has been trying to revive the Muppets for years. It hoped to build on the (apparent) momentum of "The Muppets", even though it wasn't profitable.

It failed. Dead frog.

[–] Spycat 10 years ago

You, my friend, are Number 23!:
http://www.newmoondesigns.net/troll-doctrine

[–] helderuto 10 years ago

Awesome

[–] lunatroid 10 years ago

So glad somebody understands how the box office/Hollywood math actually works.

The 165 million IS the worldwide total for "The Muppets", and Robert Iger, head of Disney, has said that the DVD sales of the movie were disappointing.

The Muppets are dead indeed. AND buried.

And good riddance. Especially to that obnoxious frog.

[–] RazzberryBeret 10 years ago

Wow, this dude actually feels motivated to hate a frog puppet, trolling all over the message board.

[–] IanDSmith 10 years ago

$165 million worldwide for a movie about a bunch of puppets is actually wonderful. There's something to be said for keeping a beloved franchise alive the way Disney is. So long as it makes some money, it's worth keeping these characters around for kids to be charmed by the way their parents were. There's character licensing opportunities for the cynical businessmen, but to me the Muppets are the very definition of something charming and special that's worth caring for. By all conventional wisdom they'd have been retired in the face of CGI behemoths like "Peabody," but I am so reassured that sentiment wins out over crass minds like yours and any profit is considered enough to keep Jim Henson's amazing creations alive and well.

[–] SpaceRain 10 years ago

It's not a flop if it only cost $45 million to make...

[–] g_bob 10 years ago

A general rule of thumb with regards to marketing costs is that it should cost roughly half of the production budget. The average cost generally falls somewhere around 35 million. So even when you factor in the marketing for The Muppets 2011, which we can make an educated guess at being between 22 and 35 million. The movie still made a profit. A healthy one. Almost $100 million. Before home video and merchandising.

The Muppets aren't dead. The next move is either a lower budget feature or a move back to tv for a while.

[–] Capt-Cupcake 10 years ago

The previous movie wasn't a hit

On the planet Kuzbane?

Because here on Earth it was a big hit!

[–] RazzberryBeret 10 years ago

Koozbane, Koozbane. xD

[–] orange021 10 years ago

OP I agree with you. The muppets haven't been relevant for years, I think it's time they left the franchise alone.

[–] Darthmauler_megaa 10 years ago

I would say Jim Henson's Muppets probably still resonate with kids (those movies are on The Hub all the time). Muppets Most Wanted couldn't hold a candle to Jim Henson's work.

"We never win any ball games...but we sure have some interesting discussions."

[–] TMC-4 (19424) 4 years ago

https://lebeauleblog.com/2015/09/22/franchise-killers-muppets-most-wanted/

Despite the fact that Disney was hoping for a bigger hit, they followed up with Muppets Most Wanted in 2014. They hoped that the first movie had whetted audience’s appetite for more and that the sequel could outperform the first film’s modest success. That confidence is reflected in a slightly larger budget for the sequel. But Disney miscalculated. It seems that The Muppets didn’t leave audiences wanting for more.

The Muppets Most Wanted also enjoyed good reviews, although not as universally positive as the notices for the first film. It opened in second place behind the young adult sci-fi movie, Divergent. But whereas the original movie opened at nearly $30 million dollars, the sequel had a $17 million dollar opening.

A big part of the blame can be attributed to the movie’s release date. The 2011 Muppets was a holiday release. But Muppets Most Wanted was dumped in the dead zone of March. Not only that, but Divergent was a PG-13 family adventure with overlapping demographic appeal. And Mr. Peabody & Sherman was still lingering in theaters competing for the kiddies. So in a traditionally slow time of year, there was a lot of competition for families who wanted to go to the movies and Muppets Most Wanted got steam-rolled as a result.

But the problems didn’t stop there. Disney marketing dropped the ball on this one. The sequel had a plot that revolved around a European heist very much like The Great Muppet Caper which had been the follow-up to the original Muppet Movie. To a casual observer, Muppets Most Wanted looked like a remake of the disappointing (and arguably under-rated) 1981 Muppet movie. Based on Disney’s marketing efforts, the plot was unclear. It looked like just another Muppet movie. The kind we had all stopped watching before Disney went to such great lengths to make The Muppets into a holiday event.