MovieChat Forums > Beasts of the Southern Wild (2012) Discussion > They weren't 'poor', they were FREE

They weren't 'poor', they were FREE


I'm not sure what to make of some of the comments here. I don't have much experience with delta people, but I do have experience with Appalachians, and there is quite a bit of common ground here. I've known many mountain people who eventually were forced to come down and move north to take blue collar jobs. They ended up living in basic, standard cookie cutter houses, with heat and electricity, buying food from grocers, etc.

They were utterly miserable.

Although "dirt" poor - which would be unacceptable to many of you - they knew and appreciated the beauty of their former lives. The wildflowers, the lack of artificial noise, the freedom to befriend any and all animals, etc.

I work in a hospital and I will never look at all the people "plugged into the wall" in the same way again - I will feel sorry that they cannot die on their own terms.




Rachel

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Give me a break. That is a convenient excuse to oppose social programmes that alleviate poverty.

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See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc

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Two perspectives...both presuming their's to be definitive.

Strokes for folks - different.

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I don't oppose social programs.





Rachel

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Give me a break. That is a convenient excuse to oppose social programmes that alleviate poverty.


Our (US) social programs perpetuate poverty :(

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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Right wing BS. Poverty was much more extreme before LBJ's War on Poverty. Ever listen to Johnny Cash's song "Christmas as I Knew It"? Here are the lyrics:

One day near Christmas when I was just a child
Mama called us together and mama tried to smile
She said you know the cotton crop hadn't been too good this year
There's not a lot of spending money and well at least we're all here

I hope you won't expect a lot of Christmas presents
Just be thankful that there is plenty to eat
That'll make things a little more pleasant
And us kids got to thinking how really blessed we were
At least we were all healthy and most of all we had her

Roy cut down a pine oak tree and we drug it home Jack and me
Daddy killed a squirrel and Louise made the bread
Reba decorated the tree with popcorn strings before we went to bed
Mama and daddy sacrificed because this Christmas was kind of lean
After all there was the babies Tom and Joanne
And babies need a few things

I whittled a whistle for my brother Jack
And though we disagreed now and then
When I gave Jack that whistle he knew I thought the world of him
Mama made the girl's dresses out of flower sacks
And when she ironed them down
You couldn't tell that they hadn't come from town

A sharecropper family across the road didn't have it as good as us
They didn't even have a light and it was way past dusk
And mama said, "Well I bet they don't even have coal oil
Let alone apples and oranges and such"

Me and Jack took a jar of coal oil and some hickernuts we'd found
We walked to the sharecropper's porch and set 'em down
A poor old ragged lady eased open the door
She picked up the coal oil and hickernuts and said
"I sure do thank you" and quickly closed the door

We started back home me and Jack
And about halfway we stopped looked back
And in the sharecropper's window at last was a light
So for one of the neighbors and for us it was a good Christmas night

Christmas came and Christmas went
Christmas that year was heaven sent
And my daddy put on his rubber boots
And paced the floor waiting for the thaw
Back home in Dyess Arkansas


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My top 250: http://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?user=SlackerInc&perpage=250

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Nice attempt at changing the subject. I said the social system PERPETUATES poverty. Back then, they didn't live for years on the government tit. They worked if they could. Also, that song mentions NOTHING about social programs. The didn't have a debit card that they could buy live lobster with.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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Also, that song mentions NOTHING about social programs.


That was my exact point! Before those social programs, poor people were really poor, even if they worked hard (as sharecroppers certainly did). The families described there would today certainly qualify for energy assistance and food stamps at the very least, not to mention the EITC and Obamacare.

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My top 250: http://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?user=SlackerInc&perpage=250

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And the people that NEED help should get it and get back on their feet. Unfortunately, too many people think that assistance is for life and they don't want to work.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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I won't deny there's some of that. I liked Robert Kennedy's approach, which linked social programs to work for those who were able. But that doesn't change any of the points I made upthread.

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My top 250: http://www.flickchart.com/Charts.aspx?user=SlackerInc&perpage=250

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Yes FREE. Something few know anything about. They loved their lives the way they were.

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SPOILERS BELOW.

I agree that they loved their lives the way they were. I think the challenge to the audience is to suspend their belief that the only acceptable society or culture is their own.

We could look at the Bathtub culture as tribal. A tribal community can be analogous to a nation of native Americans, who although ghettoized on reservations at least have their sovereignty. Despite the poverty and poor health care, many native Americans prefer the rez to white society because their values are more compatible with a tribal lifestyle. After the storm, the modern people who forced the Bathtub survivors to a modern shelter were in a sense invading another country, forcing foreign laws onto its people, and taking them into illegal custody. Is it any surprise that they busted out the moment they could?

I see the Bathtub values as cherishing independence, self-sufficiency, resilience in the face of disaster, clear-eyed unsentimental realism, non-judgmentalism, an appreciation for the interdependence of all life forms (not just human) with their environment, and working together for the common good. In another context you might call this kind of courage the right stuff. In the context of the movie it's called not being a pussy. In our context it seems to be called being poor and ignorant.

People in the Bathtub remind me of my German great-grandfather, who was a subsistence farmer. That means he farmed for what he and his family and working animals ate, with a little extra that could be sold for cash. For lack of cash, bartering goods and services was normal in his community. So a farmer never threw anything away because it could be fixed, used to make something else, or traded for something you needed more. So there was always a lot of broken-down stuff behind the barn, much like the stuff in Wink's house and Hushpuppy's house. Farmers also helped their neighbors during harvest, hard times, and barn-raisings.

A white-collar person who visited my great-grandfather's farm would have thought of him and his family as poor and ignorant because it was a hardscrabble existence compared to theirs. But it was the life my great-grandfather built for himself and his family after moving west from working in a shoe factory in Philadelphia. It may be hard for a modern person to believe, but he didn't want a different life. So how would he have reacted if someone had forced him into a "modern" lifestyle off his farm? Two of his sons wanted the same thing. One son, my grandfather, did not; he moved off the farm after WWI, having learned auto mechanics. But my great-uncles, one of whom was also a WWI veteran, stayed on the farm and continued to run it the way their father had done. They both literally died with their boots on.

Prior to westward expansion in the 1800s, tribal culture was normal in the US. Prior to WWII, subsistence farming was normal in the US outside of urban areas. Today's US urban/suburban culture is not much more than 50 years old, and we already know it's not sustainable. Who are we to call those who can live off the land and sea ignorant? How well would any of us survive on their island...before, during, or after the storm? Within his community, Wink was a very good daddy because Boss Lady Hushpuppy knew she was loved, knew she was capable, understood her place in the universe, could face down her fears, could act on a personal code of ethics, and could survive on her own within her community at the age of six. How long would a six-year-old child last alone on the streets in the modern suburbs and cities where we live?

Don't mistake me...I'm not recommending that we should all become subsistence farmers, adopt a tribal culture, or fail to help people in our society who need help. But I am suggesting that we think about this movie for what it is and not for what we are.

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Good post

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Good post


I agree

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"They ended up living in basic, standard cookie cutter houses, with heat and electricity, buying food from grocers, etc.

They were utterly miserable."


. . . and I'm sure if the rich kid that wrote and directed this film were forced to live in 'the Bathtub' he'd feel really "free". "Free" from the burdens of food, shelter and a loving family, right? What a joke!

If the people you supposedly know felt "forced to come down and move north to take blue collar jobs" then they obviously weren't feeling too "free" in the position they were in prior. Otherwise, they wouldn't have felt "forced", no?

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I saw poverty and alcoholism and hunger and ignorance and misery. Free? Freedom is not the ability to wave a flag, or to wake up from a hangover or to eat slop.

Freedom is the security of knowing that poverty is not snapping at your heels, freedom is knowing that your state cannot execute you, freedom is to be light, to not be hungry or fearful or threatened. Freedom is serenity. I saw none of that in this film.

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I've got a newsflash for you: Plenty of people in our society who are well fed and well housed are not "serene" and are not free from fear or worry. Or ignorance.






Rachel

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And they were rich in filth, ignorance, stupidity, disease, junk and squalor. At times they seemed to be a little lacking in booze.

If that is freedom I prefer the bondage of good food, health, education, comfort and wealth.

Seriously, I admired the spunk of little girl.

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They were admirable for the desire to control their own destiny and not have to live as others enforce on you but at the same time, this movie does not make them valiant, above repproach people. Wink is violent at times toward his little girl, and it was reckless to stay when they had the option to leave (Hushpuppy's three schoolmates are literally orphans of the storm, the movie never gets into anybody's history beyond that of Wink and Hushpuppy but presumably the families of these three other girls perished in the storm, they certainly would not have been left behind by themselves.) I found this movie exceptionally well made and have to wonder if the far-right whiners on this board even saw the film, these people pointedly REJECT handouts and assistance from the government.

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Is the little girl also FREE to be abused by her father? The father who gives her a large alcoholic drink? The father who hits her? The father who actually expects her to live in a separate shack from him?

And we're supposed to feel sorry for the father because he's being given medical attention? Give me a break...

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