MovieChat Forums > Man of Tai Chi (2013) Discussion > (Spoilerish) What or who was Donaka? Go...

(Spoilerish) What or who was Donaka? God? Devil?

posted 10 years ago by Bouch1313
24 replies | jump to latest

I'll start by saying I like the movie. I like Keanu and seeing him show his age was a little sad but I applaud him for the effort. Ignoring the fact that Keanu shoehorned himself into a film filled with talented martial artists, why was he so indestructible during their fight? He was considerably slower than anyone else in the film and at this point Tiger had the ability to knock men down with one punch. Tiger didn't have to slow himself down as much with his mid 60s master. If it was all just for the sake of making Donaka seem more powerful than Keanu had the ability to showcase, then that's fine. I just felt like I missed some exposition when Tiget was repeatedly punching Donaka in the face and Donaka continued to egg him on.

Outside of being indestructible, Donaka was sort of a let down in terms of a "final boss". I was glad that they didn't try to speed up his movements but it was painfully obvious to me that he was struggling. Hopefully it won't be as obvious in 47 Ronin.

[–] Ronin008 10 years ago

Hollywood again has perverted a potentially good film, I guess. Keanu fighting him seemed so wooden. The power of "tai chi" was pretty good. Man, even his 'death' scene was pretty standard Keanu.

I'd probably give this a 5 star rating and that's being generous.

[–] SilentJay32 9 years ago

This wasn't a Hollywood movie. It was financed and produced in China.

[–] propast 10 years ago

Think the key is that by the time Donaka is spouting generic cookie-cutter big-bad dialogue like You owe me a life, You're nothing, and Show me, he's speaking profound insights by the lights of tai chi and Eastern wisdom. By taking the trappings of Western action film and its questionable, quasi-nihilistic consumerist/capitalistic value system to its very grotesque extreme, Donaka actually becomes identical to - and simultaneously contrary to - Tiger's master. Black robes and white robes, identical and opposite. That's exactly the insight.

So that by the time he dies in the dirt saying I knew you had it in you and then the white-robed master lays his hand on Tiger's shoulder, they're really one and the same figure, and we realize that they've wanted the same thing for Tiger all along, even if they expressed it in opposite ways. That they come together in the end is the insight, is the enlightenment that Tiger has by the end and that he's now ready to pass on by becoming a teacher.

So I think that asking about God and the Devil is valid in a way - those are the terms in which the black/white symbolism would play out in Western thought and purely Western genre cinema - but the whole point, I think, is steering toward the overcoming of that dualistic binary in a more Eastern, more "tai chi" understanding.

And since this last fight is so profoundly metaphorical, it doesn't matter that Keanu's getting old and looks stiff and starchy in a fight.

[–] danielvutran 10 years ago

Amazing analysis. Ty for that. Appreciate it and has opened up a lot of things for me 2.

[–] sarastro7 10 years ago

Yeah, exactly. The movie was about balancing yin and yang; the two conflicting elements of the harmonic whole. This is much more profound stuff than the usual martial arts movie, and I was extremely impressed by it. I am not usually a fan of Reeves, but this movie amazed me. The whole fight club element was the "power" part of the dual aspect of martial arts; power and control, which much be reconciled with each other in order for the fighter to attain understanding and harmony. When you have the skill and ability to kill, it becomes very important to learn how *not* to use it, and that was what this movie chronicled.

Damn fine movie. 9 stars out of 10.

[–] speedy1383 10 years ago

I am amazed how much I enjoyed the film. I am not even a huge martial arts movie fan and I still was enthralled by everything on the screen. The action was pretty good. The story was well done. The music was awesome. Even the female announcer was great. Loved the way she moved. I would give this probably a 8 out of 10. Really unexpected pleasure.

[–] brimst0ne13 10 years ago

All things considered, Keanu didnt shoehorn himself in. He was actually a complete match for the movie. As said before, he is the Yang aspect. He is raw power, with very little control or technique. He is stiff, yet bull strong. His resilience is not faltered until Tiger blasts him with something his Yin (his master represents this) taught him. He remembered how his master ended the fight without contact, and technique put power back in check.

I believe that the Sifu and Danaka did want the same thing for Tiger, but in a broader sense, for him to find his true self and to be aware of just who and what he is.

Straight up to the OP, he represents the darker half of Martial Arts, not necessarily the Devil, although that would fall into the same side.

[–] spock_cow 10 years ago

I agree; that's a very good answer to the original poster's question. Thank you!

[–] celestemekent 10 years ago

How many teachers are willing to allow a student to "find their own way" as this tai chi master did? No yelling, no threats, just acceptance.

Learning to fight against all of those various styles and techniques was maybe the best way to allow a maturing of his skills, to give him the means to let the chi out before he comes back into knowing himself.

With the help of some of the other writers here I can see how this plot is a true complete circle. Very Tai Chi. Thanks

[–] Bouch1313 10 years ago

And 3 months later IMDb notifies me that you posted this. Thank you for that explanation. It makes me feel better about Keanu and makes me feel a little silly for not being in on the "joke" as it were. It is hard not to force my own western interpretations as well as own belief system onto everything I watch. Also watching Only God Forgives right before this put me in that mindset. But you are 100% correct and further viewings have confirmed that for me. Thanks for in depth response. Who knew Keanu had it in him?

[–] chaosbaron 10 years ago

I agree with Propast. After the scene you see the yin and yang simple invert or reverse. Donaka was the symbol of all darkness and "power" while the master was "control" and light.

I thought the final fight scene was pretty cool. Keanu is getting old yes, but he is still actually trained in tae kwon do and a little bit in some other stuff although full details I cannot recount. That is more to say than most actors who "fight" in films.

[–] dan-1207 10 years ago

Thank you also for such good analysis. Much appreciated!

[–] chilichilipepper 9 years ago

propast. As usual, you made an excellent post.

Although, I thought that the final scene was pretty well done.

(Potential spoilers, although the thread already says that.)

Keanu is slow (which is kind of a motive through the whole movie), but no matter what is done to him he shrugs it off and does a simple, but devastating kick or punch or headbutt. I think it worked well with the whole metaphor of how Tiger needs to slow down or the darkness will catch up with him. In the final fight, Tiger was unleashing as much fury and power as he could all fueled with hate and no control. Keanu basically takes or blocks the hits and then counters with a single blow or a controlled flurry.

Don't think it was his age catching up with him as much as a stylistic choice. After all, he could have always sped up the footage of himself to make him a hyper fighting machine. I honestly believe it is intentional due to how much yin/yang is in Keanu's own personal life. Donatka was meant to be what Tiger's master warned of : the path of self destruction is the cost of supreme power. Then, at the end, when Tiger release the "sonic boom?" punch of death, it is basically his way of returning to balance by letting all the dark out of himself into the manifestation of what he could become. Plus after the line, I knew you had it in you, Tiger basically dismisses it by bowing to his opponent, acknowledging that defeating ones dark side is difficult but deserves respect.

Either way, I couldn't believe I never heard of this until yesterday. Watched it on netflix and for a debut film, Keanu knocked it out of the park. Really planning on watching it again today to see how much symbolism I missed due to the basic orgy of fighting. It was easily (and basically the same move as) Onk Bak, but with less crazy daredevil stunts and more pure fighting.

[–] kay_rock 9 years ago

Excellent post, propast. And others, as well.

This entire discussion has elevated my appreciation of the film.

Movies are IQ tests. The IMDB boards are each person's opportunity to broadcast their score.

[–] Crocodile (2964) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] danblukk 10 years ago

Was it me or did it look like Keanu or Donoka was using some Tai Chi aswell?

[–] nishivijay 10 years ago

IMO Donaka is what is referred to in my religion as a great soul or 'mahatma'. a great soul is a powerful person. according to the religion's philosophy a good person can be powerful but someone that appears to be evil, to be powerful needs to have a point or a cause or some hidden purpose and that's why things work out. You can't just be an evil dumbass, screw everyone over and end up as powerful as Donaka--a man that was willing to die for his cause. To me it makes sense because honestly if you are a good dude that is truthful and don't have a gameplan I think things would just naturally work out step by step and then you can become powerful without that gameplan. But if you are a badass and you get somewhere lying cheating and screwing everybody over there had to be an underlying point or cause or game plan for things to work out.

We will not know until the sequel comes out whether or not it comes back but if the sequel comes out in theatres first this one will make mint in blu ray sales. Maybe that was Reeves' plan, to have Tiger has the star in this movie and Donaka regenerate and be the star of that one, "Man of yadda yadda".

[–] finaimidnight 10 years ago

Am I the only one that was left with the impression that Donaka ultimately won? What he wanted was for Tiger to kill and in the end, that's exactly what he did. Sure, it cost him his life... but a win for Donaka just the same?

[–] nishivijay 10 years ago

he took a life but for a reason not for sport so my interpretation is that they tied. Tiger may have taken a life but not in a way that was against his morals.

Reember that Tiger is a dude that wanted to fight so bad that at the beginning of the movie he agreed to sign his life over to an organization that jumped him to begin with. He was not a peaceful dude, just a guy that was against killing for sport. That was his limit and he didn't go beyond it but when he was pushed to his own limits he met Donaka's requirements as well.

[–] chaosbaron 10 years ago

I thought the same thing finaimidnight. Ultimately, the whole story of thai chi for peace didn't pull though, as donaka got what he wanted. But light lives in darkness, just like in the yin yang symbol.

On that note I have seen many many films in the past where a fighter refuses to fight ever again because it breaks their code and they go off to fight for seemingly stupid reasons. At least with this film Tiger was never really the true peace type, but went on a different journey where he saw ultimate dark on one side and ultimate light on another.

[–] matt_shade 10 years ago

One could infer that Donaka is a Warrior (Purpose) while Master Yang is a Fighter (Reason).

Donaka wants Tiger to do battle and grow more powerful since that increases his power but by the end he cannot use Tiger as an asset except as an opponent.

Master Yang wants to teach Tiger how to fight and how to control his power since that increases a master's self-control.

It's a common martial arts point, what a peaceful world we would have if we were all fighters rather than warriors. Maybe it comes from Zen or some other philosophy, I can't say.

It's not nihilism if there's a question mark at the end.

[–] jamasian_man 9 years ago

The weakest part of the movie was the final fight. Up to that point, we never saw Donaka Mark's fighting prowess because all he ever did was break necks.

If we got to see him take down some competition or an enemy of his own, we could judge how powerful he was and see if he could take on Tiger Chen's character.

But we never get to see his ability, so at the end Donaka is just a superpowered villain and we can't really get a comparison of their fighting ability, because Donaka is just overpowered.

Also, they wasted the guy from the Raid. That was so lame.

[–] SforSmile 8 years ago

the story itself is so lame and all this supposed Tai Chi philosophy it may deal with, doesn't compensate the poorness of the plot

"Some people are immune to good advice."
-Saul Goodman

[–] TankerToad 8 years ago

Without reading the 20 comments, Donaka is the muse.