the spinning chair scene at the end...
this is what i got from the ending scene at the courthouse that Hank decided to be a judge following his father path. any thoughts?
sharePossibly. He seemed intrigued that the chair after spinning ended up stopping perfectly facing him.....as in tempting him to take a seat.
shareyeah that's exactly what i thought when the chair stopped facing him
shareMy take on the chair stopping to face RDJ was the acceptance he finally got from his father before he died, which might lead to a following in the footsteps scenario.
shareI didn't really feel he ever got acceptance from his father. He didn't even hug him goodbye in the courtroom when he was being taken away, even though he hugged the other brothers.
At the VERY end and because he was doing nothing but rotting in prison RDJ managed to get him out to go fishing, but I saw no indication of acceptance. In fact Judge's last words were "Glen coulda really been something."
Unless I missed something.
Well I'm not sure what you think acceptance would look like. I think it was very clear from his testimony in court and what happened throughout the movie that he loved him very much, and had enormous respect for him (saying he was the best lawer he'd ever seen at the end). He didn't hug him because it was too hard (emotionally taxing), and he never really had a huggy relationship with him.
βIn my sentences I go where no man has gone before.β
- George W. Bush
Pretty much sums up my thought process on this subject as well.. well said.
shareIt's a competely other matter. He loved him, like all his sons. He was happy that his son was a successful lawyer. That was the part during the testimony. But he never accepted him, his way towards life, or whatever. He loved him, but never felt as close to him as to the other sons.
shareBut he never accepted him, his way towards life, or whatever. He loved him, but never felt as close to him as to the other sons.
Yes but you left out the WHY of that.... Judge Palmer held a grudge against his son because he let the Blackwell boy off easy after his first offense because the boy reminded him of his son Hank.
Had Hank never elicited that in him (been a good kid who didn't cause trouble) it is unlikely the Judge would have only given Blackwell 30 days... he feels guilt over the girl's death and he blames his son (perhaps subconsciously) for it as well.
It's a pretty big revelation during the trial.... share
Exactly, his father loved him very much and was proud of him, that's way he was so hard on him.
I enjoyed immensely all the scenes between Robert & Robert.
^^^This.
It was obvious that RDJ's character and hid dad really did love each other throughout. That is why he turned around and came back to try to help his dad win the case. If he really felt the way he said he did, he would have stayed on the plane, like f*k him...
That is what makes the scenes where the son and father say such cruel things to each other so hard to watch; we know they really have love, but they don't know how to show it-they essentially say the oppoasite of what they really mean. By the end, I took it that they had forgiven each other. And his dad finally admitted that he was proud of his son, conceding that he was the best lawyer he knew. That was all the son wanted, some acknowledgement of his awesomeness.
I loved this movie so much.
My take regarding Hank and the Judges relationship, I think they were too similar and that they both were "holier than thou pricks." I think that's was why they didn't get along. They both are bullies, both think they are right. It was fun to watch their dialogue battle of wits in this movie. Both Robert's were great, like watching a boxing match.
the spinning chair is a homage to mr. kruger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXF2D9HrUa8
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I think we can see some "softening" of the Judge towards his son, and maybe some growing respect. But he was definitely not treating him normal. That too much ground to cover in the few months this takes place. There is some healing, but the division is not closed.
And I'm glad. The movie was beautifully harsh. It was unpleasantly real. Everything doesn't just get better just because everyone becomes more self-aware. That's just step 1. And when you are about to die, you don't get to make it to step 2.
Right on. Movie was brutal and RDJ and Judge had some DEEP pain between them. I mean here you have upstanding Judge making a crack about his marriage and how his wife banged another man? Holy hell what a low blow to come from the Judge. Thank god he at least said sorry for that.
But yeah it was harsh. I mean he did have some kind of relationship with his mother but the hatred between him and his father was so bad that he NEVER took their granddaughter to meet them once? I mean holy crap the grandmother never met the grandmother, that is some hardcore resentful stuff right there.
Which is why sometimes in the movie when there were normal conversations between Judge and RDJ I was like wow.....how can they even speak to each other?
If you ask me RDJ was just as hard headed and heartless as his dad. You can have some major daddy issues but if you still love your mother than you gotta bring the grandkid around at least one flippin time.
Movie was brutal and RDJ and Judge had some DEEP pain between them. I mean here you have upstanding Judge making a crack about his marriage and how his wife banged another man? Holy hell what a low blow to come from the Judge. Thank god he at least said sorry for that.
I just saw a preview for The Judge on TV, and even in that quick moment I was reminded of the empathy I felt for RDJ's character because he was being so dumped on by his father and clearly being treated differently than the other brothers. How long can you put up with that nonsense from your parents? Especially when you know you have taken steps to improve yourself. Being a son (or a daughter) can be very painful that way.
The marketing gimmick known as the Oscars fails again as usual (though at least they did manage to recognize Duvall so far).
"He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! Now, piss off!" - Free speech forever! :) share
I got from the film that Judge loved his kids but the car wreck event changed everything. He always felt RDJ cost his brother Glen his baseball career and never stopped blaming him. Even his last words to RDJ "Glen really could have been something" once again brought it up.
The heated conversation in the kitchen all but said it. RDJ kept asking why, why did you send me away? You showed some leniency to others but he sent him away because he was 17 and had smoked some pot? It was BS, he sent him away to punish him for hurting Glen, plain and simple. On the wrong path my ass.
That wound never healed. Judge was probably angered even more by the fact that RDJ and Glen could still remain brothers and be in the same room together.
RDJ knew the accident was the source of 99% of their animosity. He even said to Glen in the basement "get your gimp hand off me!". What a cruel thing to say but he too was angry at his father and angry at himself.
Personally I feel the movie would have been even better had they addressed this issue. RDJ was close to tears so many times in the film it would have been pretty powerful to see him breakdown with a sobbing apology to his brother. To admit this guilt had been with him for so long concerning the accident and "costing" him his baseball career. It would have been good to see RDJ and Judge confront it head on too and get Judge to admit he all but hated his son for it, and then they could try to get past it after confronting it.
To me it was the huge elephant in the room and in the end was never truly resolved, which is why I didn't find myself in the end thinking they had made amends or much progress. But that's fine cause the movie wasn't all sunshine and rainbows and it was probably better for it.
just saw this film today in the theatre.
in the boat dad first says You're the best lawyer ever. hank's face accepts this acceptance, this is Huge for him. then dad says "Glen would've really been something," to which hank replies "No question." they both understand about Glen. then the bit'o'honey wrapper falls on the floor, no more to say. all is forgiven, all is finished, no loose ends, it looked like to me.
LOVED this film. cried all thru. masterpiece.
Personally I feel the movie would have been even better had they addressed this issue. RDJ was close to tears so many times in the film it would have been pretty powerful to see him breakdown with a sobbing apology to his brother.
I thought the same thing. They should have addressed that issue. RDJ's character never truly seems sorry that he cost his brother his career. I wish this had been addressed, but overall I loved the movie.
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My mom and sister had a relationship like this, very time they got together there were constant fights, watching this movie brought all that back and my sister never returned home once she left for college. She said to her "I'm never coming home again" and she didn't until my mom's death. But my parents did go out to see her in CA a few times. Watching this movie brought all that back.
shareI think we can see some "softening" of the Judge towards his son, and maybe some growing respect. But he was definitely not treating him normal. That too much ground to cover in the few months this takes place. There is some healing, but the division is not closed.
And I'm glad. The movie was beautifully harsh. It was unpleasantly real. Everything doesn't just get better just because everyone becomes more self-aware. That's just step 1. And when you are about to die, you don't get to make it to step 2.
Wow! Brilliant comment. I loved this film, and the oxymoron is absolutely correct. The movie wasn't harshly beautiful, it was beautifully harsh. share
You did miss an important something, DreadFox: it was not RDJ's character who petitioned for compassionate release.
It was the prosecuting attorney (played by Billy Bob Thornton) who did so.
It was the prosecuting attorney (played by Billy Bob Thornton) who did so.
Ah so even less acceptance, closure, and healing....
Thanks for pointing that out. share
didn't the prosecuting attorney just sign off on it? I think Hank probably requested it but it had to be approved by the prosecuting attorney so he had to sign off on it. I may be wrong but that was my impression.
sharedidn't the prosecuting attorney just sign off on it? I think Hank probably requested it but it had to be approved by the prosecuting attorney so he had to sign off on it. I may be wrong but that was my impression.
shareI'm a dad of a grown, successful son. I might say the Judge did not hug RDJ goodbye in the courtroom because he was the one among his three sons he was not worried about, as a father, and when, in the boat after RDJ got him compassionate release, he said "Glen coulda really been something", it was just a matter-of-fact regret/observation he shared with an equal, a friend, in conversation. He had already said RDJ was the best lawyer he knew. After those turns in their relationship before his dad died, RDJ is probably able to finally come home.
shareI really don't agree at all. He didn't get him out to go fishing, he got him out on early release. And no, his father didn't hug him before he left for jail but he was very angry at him for doing exactly what he asked him not to do which was to reveal that he had cancer. I think it's that point his father was still very mad at him. at the end he goes fishing with his father and his father tells him that he's the best lawyer he ever knew. If that's not telling your son you're proud of him and I don't know what it is!
shareWell, what you missed was the dialogue and the visuals. The judge, looking straight into his son's eyes, said that his son was the best lawyer he had ever known. Then, the son turns away gulping back tears. That's when the judge says Glen could have been something with an inferred "too." He was proud of his sons, all of them, not just two of them. The son then gets jolly and dares a fishing contest with a five dollar bet, smiling in peaceful happiness. The judge quietly dies.
shareIt wasn't RDJ who got his father out. The Prosecutor (Billy Bob Thornton) is who applied for the compassionate release.
shareThe acceptance was in the boat when Judge says that Hank is the lawyer he thinks is the best. Then, after they talk about a couple of other things, he dies. That admission was the final meaningful thing between them.
shareI got from that yes he would follow in I his father's footsteps and stay in Carlinville. Also the most important thing his dad said was " you are, remember when ,you asked me who i thought was the best lawyer, you are. Also the conversation about who originally he thought was the best lawyer it was a Henry and (HankHenry) says "Henry"? Of course Dad dosen't answer but it's
Symbolic. Also when Henry is looking at his daughter and then his dad together
. When in the courtroom and Hank asks his dad why he gave that defandant a free ride?
He tells the cortroom the defandant reminded him of his middle son so rebellious
And if they would be forgiving and put their arms around him, be what he what he would somebody else
To be for his son , that he could not be.... His son so rebellious..
Very very symbolic. I did love this move excellent performances?
I think everyone else here has been brainwashed by the same old Hollywood movies over the years. You're right, he never actually received the acceptance - true acceptance - from his father, who was just too pigheaded. Yeah, there was the comment on the boat while fishing ("I choose you as thr best lawyer I ever saw") but honestly, tell me the way he delivered that line didn't seem forced... then following up with his final words: "Glen coulda really been something." It's quite clear.
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