MovieChat Forums > Stoker (2013) Discussion > Why does a female masturbating in a movi...

Why does a female masturbating in a movie inevitably turn evil?


You see this coming (excuse the pun) a mile away. Don't they believe we ordinary, non-evil chicks indulge?

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I can think of a few examples of films where women are shown masturbating, or at least very sexualised, where it isn't played off as a bad thing at all.

I think it's more the context of it.
Sexuality is a very raw form of human expression.
The things that we become aroused by are often reflective of some of the deepest and on occasion darkest aspects of our personalities, so showing her being aroused by thoughts of death are a pretty effective way of showing how enamoured she is with it.

It would work equally well with a male, (Ichi the Killer, for example, has a male character that masturbates to murder frequently, Human Centipede 2 had a scene like that too but it might have been cut) but I think it's much harder for filmmakers to get away with showing male masturbation in a context like that, just like it's harder to show full frontal male nudity than it is female.

When a film wants to show a man doing something to clarify him as bad in some way it tends to rely on physical violence much more, rape, murder or some other unpleasant act.
It's definitely an interesting thing to take note of, were somebody to defy these expectations and use the tropes in a clever way it would be an easy way to unnerve a good chunk of a films audience.

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I think you make some very good points (and I have to admit I haven't seen Ichi The Killer), but as you say "it's harder to show full frontal male nudity than it is female." Yes, but why? Let's question it. Is it because the default viewer is deemed to be a straight male and it might make him uncomfortable?
Something to think about.

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I'd say thats almost certainly the case.
The companies that pay for big productions are almost always in the mindset that women are a sub-set of the audience and have very typical almost stereotypical tastes.

Theres actually been a bit of an uproar about that very topic in TV lately.
My Little Pony has gained a massive following in teenage to adult men, which is most definitely not it's target audience.
The company took advantage of this and stated to implement more aspects to the show and the merchandise that would appeal to this audience it had attracted.

The same thing happened with another show, Young Justice, but with the genders reversed.
The show was aimed at young boys, but ended up with a huge female following, but rather than be pleased with the large viewing numbers they cancelled the show because they didn't want female viewers, they only wanted male viewers.
This isn't some speculation either, one of the heads of the studio or the production company came out and said themselves that "girls don't buy toys, boys do, so we want boys to watch the show" or something akin to that.

It really is a pretty ridiculous situation to be in, but the way I see it (or at very least what I really hope is the case) is that right now all of the top level people in charge of these companies are old fashioned.
They are all older gentlemen who have been in the business a long time to be able to get to these high up positions, and they bring with them very outdated opinions that they force upon those lower down the food chain.

As time goes on these people will be replaced with those of a younger generation who have more of an understanding of this stuff.
By the time people in my generation (20-30) get to be in charge they will bring with them a new set of sensibilities.
Obviously there will always be those people that bring bad mentalities to all mediums, but I think that eventually we will start seeing the scales tip in another direction and it will get to be much less common than it is now.

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I hope you're right - and I think the 'scales will tip' with the next generation as you say. Hopefully I won't be too old then to appreciate a better gender balance at the movies!

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It's definitely something a lot of people are really passionate about.
Even to the extent where it's over-zealous sometimes.

Quite often I see a lot of books, comics or whatever where the creators are so determined to make a "strong" female character they forget to make them a good female character.

Something I'm excited about is getting to see more female characters that are portrayed well without them being devoid of many female characteristics.

So often now the female characters that most people look to are fairly shallow, people just praise them because they can beat people up and get to play the hero.

Where thats in no way a bad thing, I'd love to see a but more exploration of what it means to be a woman.
Strong female hero's who are conflicted by people's expectations of them, or who conform to typical "girly" mentalities without letting them be portrayed as a negative or weak aspect to the character.

How often do you see a girl that likes "girly" things that also happens to be a genuinely badass character without the whole thing being a joke?
It's pretty rare, and that's kind of a shame.

I feel like if that gets a bit too out of hand it will essentially be shaming people for any fondness of things that are traditionally considered more feminine.

A great example of a female character I see done right is Brienne from Game of Thrones.
She is huge, strong, a powerful warrior but at the same time is very conflicted in her feminine nature, and it's something they really explore in an interesting way.


On the other hand, I'd also like to see more men explored in media for the decline of "masculinity".
How the image of a real manly man is big and burly and muscular and a hunter who can build log cabins and the like, and a very large portion of modern day men are obsessed with self image and pampering.
Beauty products for men have become vastly more commonplace in these last few years.

I think the walls of what is gender specific are breaking down, and it's a topic ripe for exploration that not many people have really done justice to yet.

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A lot of Stoker is about the coming of age.

Really, there was nothing ultimately evil about her, she grew out of her family, she grew out of the situation she was in, and she took control of it herself. And she killed the main antagonist - leaving her mother, who was really afraid of her becoming a woman, all alone.

Hell, I'd argue it's saying the opposite. The scene in question isn't really about her becoming evil as much as it is about her becoming an adult. I can see the possible misinterpretation, because she really started to actually act on her own accord at that point. But looking back on it, in my mind there's no mistaking the writer and director's intentions. Everyone seemed very on the same page about this theme.

The track that plays at that time is titled "Becoming..."
The progression of the tracks ranges from "Blossoming..." "Becoming..." "In Full Bloom", finishing out with that really lovely song "Becomes the Color" and it has been stated in many interviews that this really is a coming of age story (Just a dark and twisted one at that). In fact the director (Chan-wook) himself even said he dialed back the crazy on this movie because he assumed girls about of age would see the movie, and he didn't want to go too far with it.

Another fun fact, the soundtrack itself tells the story in the titles of the songs, which is impressive. "The Hunter and the Game" progresses to "The Hunter Plays the Game" progresses to "The Hunter Becomes the Game". Anyone who has seen the movie can be sure of what scenes this is talking about.

Another consideration is definitely that this is the writer's (Wentworth Miller) very first film. And a damn fine one at that, in my opinion. But still, it's obvious that some bits are rough around the edges.

Cheers! :)

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[deleted]

Who says it's evil? Religious people? Don't listen to religious people. Ever.

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[deleted]

Because women are terrifying and their vagina areas are evil death traps.

But really, it was a horror movie. I found the masturbation scene shocking but totally plausible in context of the story. She was crying because she finally understood her true nature, that she was a sadist and was excited by gruesome violence. I don't think there was any other way to convey that realization.

Anyhoo, if anyone knew about the weirdest stuff I've ever diddled my fiddle to, I'd probably be locked up. So there's that. Tee hee.

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This little You Tube production has a take on the "Stoker" masturbation scene. I found the narration unintentionally hilarious. Talk about SPOILERS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sCF33070GQ

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As Trantino the copycat said on deathproff:
"Why does he kills?
Sex."

As simple as that. The climax is the climax for first time in a non pornographic movie.

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Shirley MacLaine didn't seem evil as she masturbated for Peter Sellers' character in Being There.

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