MovieChat Forums > Cave of Forgotten Dreams (2011) Discussion > Albino Crocodiles

Albino Crocodiles

posted 13 years ago by KristinVS
35 replies | jump to latest

This part of the movie passed me by while I was thinking about the (fine) artistic quality of the some of the cave paintings featured. I will need to view the film again to try to understand Herzog's point. However, my own take is this: The world's climate has changed considerably since the cave paintings were made. So too, has the local ecology. Many of the species of animals depicted on the Chauvet Cave walls are now extinct. We are now facing another, more rapid climate change, but this one is in a large part caused by human activity. This too, is resulting in ecological changes that we are only beginning to witness and understand.

This quote from reviewer John DeSando prompted me to introduce this topic here:

" When you figure out his meaning of the doppelganging albino alligators, write me with your answer, for I'm still trying to figure it out."

Does anyone else have insight into this?
And are they albino alligators or crocodiles, for clarification?

[–] Northern_Wall 12 years ago

being used for the near-by biosphere...what does that make?

i hate being a wise-guy, but i could not resist to shed a little light.

A nuclear power plant is situated a couple of miles away from the town where i live and around this plant there are doves.
Normal colored doves and albino doves.
It has been proven that the albino doves are MUTATIONS, remeber Herzogs commentary on that??, caused by low amounts of radiation leaving the plant and by the cooling water that is being deposited into the river nearby.

The water from the cooling process in the nuclear power plants near the cave is being used for the biosphere nearby, which not only is weird enough that only the French, who treat nuclear power plants as if they were non-risk factors at all, can do such a crazy thing.

Anyone with a little bit of background knowledge and common sense can figure that this water in effect is polluting, even at the slightes amount, the plants and the animals in that biosphere, thus the MUTATIONS of the albino crocodiles.

CLaiming that it's got nothing to do with the nuclear power plant nearby is an outright lie and a rejection of clear and proven truth.

Loved the film tho, great imaginery!!

[–] finnegansword 12 years ago

"Be logical guys, surplus of warm water from the power plants.....Anyone with a little bit of background knowledge and common sense can figure that this water in effect is polluting, even at the slightes amount, the plants and the animals in that biosphere, thus the MUTATIONS of the albino crocodiles."

*****

Oh dear, we are well into the realm of urban myth now. Do you seriously think that after the the Three Mile Island disaster in the U.S. and accidents in other parts of the world, that the respective Nuclear Authorities around the world don't take the very real dangers seriously and design the generating plants accordingly?

The one very famous exception was the Chernobyl disaster in the Ukraine when a Russian plant ran out of control. Another danger lies in the storage of spent fuel rods and other contaminated materials which has a half-life of 100,000 years.

But remember, if it was not for this technology, it would not have been possible to determine the age of the animal drawings on the cave walls. But I suspect that Northern Wall loves a conspiracy theory as much as the next man (or woman)!

[–] Northern_Wall 12 years ago

"Oh dear, we are well into the realm of urban myth now. Do you seriously think that after the the Three Mile Island disaster in the U.S. and accidents in other parts of the world, that the respective Nuclear Authorities around the world don't take the very real dangers seriously and design the generating plants accordingly?"

No, they don't.
I have a very good example for you how much they do not care for the security of their plants.
Take Germany. After Fukushima the German government finally agreed upon a final closure of all the German nuclear power plants with every plant being granted a last period of years to run until closure.
Formerly those periods of years were rather short, under the pressure of energy companies who own those nuclear power plants, the periods were prolonged, while they paid a hefty for that plus they control the safety of their plants by themselves.
Now, the result of this calculation is so easy, that I surely do not have to explain it to you. Go figure.
Whernever huge amounts of money are invovlved, that money is safed at the wrongest places.

"The one very famous exception was the Chernobyl disaster in the Ukraine when a Russian plant ran out of control. Another danger lies in the storage of spent fuel rods and other contaminated materials which has a half-life of 100,000 years."

Hello - you did hear of the Fukushima incident, didn't you?
Of course, can't compare it to Chernobyl regarding the impact, but well, the short - and long-term consequences for the ones affected don't hurt you personally anyways, so why bother...

"But remember, if it was not for this technology, it would not have been possible to determine the age of the animal drawings on the cave walls. But I suspect that Northern Wall loves a conspiracy theory as much as the next man (or woman)!"

Now here comes the question i wanted to ask all along:
First of all, you seem to have taken my post as a pure endorsement of an anti-nuclear power-stance although I merely pointed out that the albino crocodiles probably mutated due to the minorly radiating disposal water coming from the plants.
nothing more and nothing less.
Now where is the conspiracy theory in all my former post, I wonder?
Enlighten me please

To be honest, I don't care much about how old exactly those drawings are, what strikes me as more beautiful is their making and the temptation of pondering what could have made that drawer put them up there in the first place...

Cheers,

Northern_Wall

[–] finnegansword 12 years ago

Well, at least Northern_Wall and I are agreed that the drawings on the cave walls are amazing.......

[–] misterpanman 12 years ago

"It has been proven that the albino doves are MUTATIONS, remeber Herzogs commentary on that??, caused by low amounts of radiation leaving the plant and by the cooling water that is being deposited into the river nearby"

show me the proof, because frankly I don't believe you. Waste water from nuclear power plants is not radioactive- it does not come in contact with any radioactive material inside a nuclear reactor.

There were, for a time, slightly increased rates of partial albinism in swallows around Chernobyl (I have visited reactor number 4 and there are no hordes of mutant animals roaming the countryside-the power plant was in operation until 2000) but that was a relatively major nuclear accident.

What you state as clear and proven truth and common sense is nothing of the kind. And Herzog certainly states no such thing in this documentary.

The albino crocodilians are due to the nuclear power plant though not for the reasons you state- the plant provides warm waste water, which provides a suitable habitat for the creatures which is free from the kind of selection which would select against the albinos. Albinism, or partial albinism is fairly common but albino animals in the wild are usually not vigorous. Your white pet rabbit did not arise from some Godzilla-like escape of radiation.

And also, the incident at Fukushima resulted in zero deaths and will likely have zero measurable health consequences.

[–] Oskiros-Arg 12 years ago

For me, all this scene have not nothing to do with the rest of the documentary.

Oscar
Hablo mejor español :)

[–] smarques5 12 years ago

The point of the alligators is to reminds us that nobody knows what the future has in store for us.
32.000 from now, somebody might look at the relics of our civilization the same way that we look at those paintings.

"I was what you are, you will be what I am".

[–] SoerenM 12 years ago

To make a long story short.. here you can listen to what Herzog himself had to say about this... quote "[..] and I pretend [..]".. so yeah he doesn't think so himself ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER9KeUBO0rk&feature=relmfu#t=3m26s

[–] grimandproper 11 years ago

The albino alligators are alligators, just like the others, slightly changed by a mutation. They look at their "doppelgangers" - their twins - and assess them.

When we examine the cave paintings we are looking at ourselves - other human beings - and we're searching for that sign that we are the same. Though the passage of time has made us a little different, really aren't we just people (or alligators), like those who painted these pictures?

I think the albino alligators represent us.

[–] thebe123-484-488327 9 years ago

I liked the albino crocodiles brought in. It was a bit of comic relief for me. Especially when he narrates so seriously something like "what do they think?"

I had to chuckle and say to myself "probably not a real lot".