MovieChat Forums > Max Payne 3 (2012) Discussion > Why Max Payne 3 doesn't make any sense

Why Max Payne 3 doesn't make any sense


Let's see what they managed to screw up in the development of Max Payne 3:

- No James McCaffrey.
James McCaffrey is not only the voice of Max Payne, he IS Max Payne. A large part of the reason why the Max Payne movie never really appealed to me is because Mark Wahlberg's voice is NOT the voice of Max Payne. As some have already stated, no McCaffrey for Max Payne is like no David Hayter voicing Solid Snake. Do you have any idea the kind of s**t-storm MGS fans would have raised if Hideo Kojima decided to use another voice actor for Snake? And yes, I'm sure Kiefer Sutherland can do a good job, but it won't be the voice of Max Payne. Sutherland does not have the deep, rough voice of McCaffrey. McCaffrey brought something truly unique to that voice that I don't believe any other voice actor can bring. McCaffrey gave Max Payne a deep, dark, brooding, introvert, hard-core voice that suited the character and his appearance perfectly. No James McCaffrey, no Max Payne!.

- No New York City.
Now, let me just state that NYC is not a must for a Max Payne game. Although it worked brilliantly in the first two games, I was always open to the possibility of introducing a new location, as long as they maintained the original atmosphere of the first two games. If the developers feel that they want a new location, they should at the very least make sure the place they choose is atmospheric and true to the Film-Noir spirit of Max Payne. Alternative locations instead of New York could have been Los Angeles (in winter), Chicago, Detroit, San Francisco, or Seattle. If they wanted to use a locale outside the United States (something that I wouldn't condone, but would be able to look past), they could have chosen Japan (Tokyo), China (Hong Kong), France (Paris), or similar locales. Instead the idiots chose sunny and bright Brazil. A location that doesn't make any sense whatsoever for a Max Payne game. I've heard arguments that New York is much safer than Rio de Janeiro, and because Rio is a much more violent city it would somehow make sense for a Max Payne game. Such nonsense. New York made perfect sense because for years the perception was and still is that NYC is a cold, dark, brooding, foreboding city that would make perfect sense for a Film-Noir setting. On the other hand, placing the game in sunny Rio is no different than placing it in Miami or the Caribbean. It simply doesn't make sense because it doesn't work with the spirit of the original games or the character.

- No Film-Noir setting/style.
Of all the changes made in Max Payne 3, this one hurts me the most. The Noir setting made the Max Payne franchise unique among other franchises and games. I mean, let's be honest. How many other games out there utilize a Noir style as beautifully as the Max Payne games did? None. Part of the beauty of Max Payne was the games' ability to transform you into a past era of Film-Noir while keeping the game grounded in more modern constructs. The Noir setting and style is an immeasurable part of what made the franchise unique, different and just plain brilliant. The location, the atmosphere, the characters, the comic book model, the brilliant script, all of these were brought together by a dark and cold Noir style/setting that made you want to come back to it, no matter how many times you've experienced and completed the game.

- No Max Payne look/appearance.
How stupid can they be? Only 12 years after the events of Max Payne 2 and they made Max look like a trailer trash bum. A bald, fat bum. He now has plenty of facial hair, tattoos, and... oh goody, he's into the wife-beater fashion! They made Max look like one of those cupboard cutouts you see in the GTA games. Completely generic, completely silly, and completely unlike Max Payne. I don't know who this character is, but for all intents and purposes, that "guy" is NOT Max Payne!

- No Remedy/Sam Lake.
Remedy created magic with Max Payne 1 & 2, they won't be developing Max Payne 3. Instead, some unknowns at RockStar Vancouver are developing this. RSV's only developing credit so far is the game Bully, a fairly mediocre console Action-Adventure. Now that's not to say that RSV is going to screw it up completely, but the game will not have the commitment and the heart and soul that Remedy put into this franchise. To add insult to injury, Sam Lake, the brilliant writer of Max Payne 1 & 2 is not joining this project. Suffice it to say, this is a huge loss to the series and will no doubt be very detrimental to Max Payne 3. We can pretty much expect a significantly inferior script and weaker writing quality for this game which will mean a dumbed down, simplified plot and character development.

- No PC controls/interface/game mechanics.
Make no mistake about it, this game is primarily developed from the ground up as a CONSOLE game, not as a PC game. We can expect simplistic, arcadish, GTA style controls with a crappy Cover System, no Bullet-Time and the interface and game mechanics will have to be severely dumbed down and simplified. This will feel like a console game and it will play like one, to the detriment of this game and the franchise's fans.

- Plot is extremely problematic and doesn't make much sense.
So, let's get this straight. Max Payne has allowed himself to become bald, overweight, alcoholic, to grow all this facial hair, to look like a common bum freakazoid? Sorry, but I don't buy it for one second. Max Payne was the kind of character who would put a bullet through his brain and commit suicide before he would allow himself to deteriorate like that. Oh, no question. Max Payne has had and still does have severe mental problems that were brought on by the brutal murder of his wife and child, but at least according to the ending of Max Payne 2, he seems at peace for the first time. To quote Max at the end of MP2: "I had a dream of my wife. She was dead. But it was all right." Max seems to finally accept the death of his wife and presumably the death of his child as well. This is the very last line of Max Payne 2 and it at least gives the appearance that Max has allowed himself to find peace and to leave his past behind and move on. Now, in Max Payne 3, we suddenly learn that he is worse than ever before. An alcoholic, heavily addicted to painkillers and looking like a freak. I'm sorry, but this simply does not sit well at all with the ending of Max Payne 2. Also, what the hell is Max doing in Brazil? Brazil is a long way from New York City, long way from his life, his work, his home. What is he supposed to do in Brazil and how does it all connect with his past in NYC? And what about Mona Sax? She is an integral part of the series and it seems that not only will she not be a playable character, but will not show up in the game at all. A lot of questions remain regarding the direction the story is heading, but right now I'm suspicious of the developer's ability to competently put it all together.

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[deleted]

I am gunna have to agree and disagree with both of you on certain points and ill work from the bottom up.

Most likely Mona is dead. I preferably liked that scenario more anyhow. And as for Woden being dead, partner, the russian and italin mobsters killed and aiding and abetting a know criminal... No way in hell hes getting out of it,evidence aside, maybe just years taken off but in no way an out.

He would probably get some where from 1-4 to 3-6 for what he did.

Which brings me to Brazil. I didn't look too much up on Max Payne 3 Id rather it kinda be a surprise ya know(like trailers that sum up a whole movie in 10 mins then expect you to be intrigued that *beep* happens to games too)but i looked at pics. But I would have to say maybe he went to Brazil to escape the jail time or after jail, He might of wanted to escape the Russian and Italian mafia ties that would want him dead. It wouldnt be a bad move considering its safer than living in a city that hates him.

Losing his job indefinitely and no chance of having it back is one reason to leave and start drinking.12 years is a long time to grow old, his voice would change and appearance and the fact he is a drinker and a doper would also make the aging and voice a little different. Plus if you listen to small talk from cops in 2 you would hear them make small things about having another drink and such... so he was most likely a drinker after his wife and child are murdered.

As for the addicted to pain killers thing... He took massive amounts of them in both games to take care of the fact he was a walking bullet factory. Also in a most likely scenario had to take them still do to say muscle or tissue damage done to him over his course of being a bad ass.

Noir style to a T... There is really no way(considering his life situation) that this wont a that feel to it in one way anyhow. Two women in his life are dead, hes down trodden and beaten, an alchie and a doper, probably in constant pain physically let alone mentally and in *beep* Brazil so there is that element of Noir there. Hes just off in life in general throw in another love interest and itll be there in spirit anyhow.

As for the rest I really just agree haha cause Lake is his voice. and it all wont really feel like the gold of Max 1 and 2. But im sure it will have its own way of being good. Im still gunna play it regardless.

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[deleted]

James McCaffrey is from the town I live in... I used to work with a woman he knows very well. I've actually met him once... got him to sign a Rescue Me DVD for me.

But anyway, the point is... he DOESN'T like the series... he thinks its too violent. He didn't even really want to do the second one and has said a bunch of times he will not do another. So I dunno... everyone has their price, but I'm not sure he's game.

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I just saw some screenshots of the game today and am completely disappointed for exactly the same reasons as you outlined.

Like you said, this is NOT Max Payne, won't look like him, won't sound like him, won't have the same style script as as we're used to, and it doesn't have that same darkness/noir feel.

Honestly I have no idea what Rockstar are trying to accomplish here, there is no real brand recognition here. Yeh it has Max Payne on the box, but they're going to try and sell this to Max Payne fans, seriously?

Harry I agree with your point that until we see a video clip we can't know for sure, but from everything I have seen, this will be a complete flop for true Max Payne fans. Brazil is not the right location, and I much preferred everything being done at night in the quiet city.

This has me very upset really, Max Payne is my all time favourite video game - when I first played it many years ago I saw so much potential in it, it could have made a GREAT movie, but instead Hollywood made a mess of it and ruined it.

Rockstar are doing the same thing here by the looks of it, making a 3rd person game that has bullet-time, a lot of action/shooting, and a plot probably... but it won't have the same feel as Max Payne, I think they are only using its name because people recognize it and it will help it sell.

Not having Sam Lake is ugh... yeh sure he's busy with Alan Wake, but the way I see it, and I'm sure most other fans would agree, I would happily wait until Alan Wake was done for Sam Lake and Remedy to do a PROPER sequel and do it right, rather than have a bunch of nobodies make this game. Oh well. Maybe Alan Wake will be good.

If you liked Max Payne, maybe you'd like Batman Arkham Asylum.. I did, kinda dark game, and good fun

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I am extremely disappointed in how Max Payne 3 looks, as well. I LOVED the first two. They were sleek and dark, but also had the romantic noir feel. This one, however, is about a fat guy in a wife beater running around Brazil shooting people. It likes the style that made the series so distinctive. It looks like every other Rock Star shoot-em-up game. It looks like Grand Theft Auto, not Max Payne.



No, please not a kiss, I swear I'll gag! Mount me if you must but not a kiss!

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dont buy this crap.they *beep* everything....
making max payne 3 was a big mistake...
just playmax payne 1 and enjoy

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[deleted]

I agree with all of you. It just doesn't feel like a Max Payne game from the pictures they've released. I'm going to give it a shot, but it's not looking good for the Max Payne franchise. They should've gotten the same voice actor and game model for the character from the other games. His model looks nothing like the Max Payne that we've all come to know and love. Since most fans, myself included, don't like his new appearance they should allow you to customize his appearance. That would be fun and it would prevent us from being forced to use some fat, druken, bald guy trying to use Max Payne's identity.

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I just hope MP3 has bullet time! The voice actor is a concern. Wikipedia says it is because Max has aged and the voice doesnt suit him anymore, but that doesnt make much sense to me, its not like Max sounds like 10 year old.

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The majority of "faults" I can easily look past if this game is even half as good as 1 and 2. I've always loved Max Payne (maybe not the movie so much) and seriously look forward to this. One thing I would LOVE is if they substitute the nightmares that you play, with "drunkenness". If they incorporated the nightmares too than even more happy days, but to play (hopefully several times) a drunken Max Payne would truly tickle my fancy! Any opinions on this?

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I can go with an older, fatter Payne. I can even (reluctantly) go with a sunny location (wtf). But what I absolutely CANNOT roll with it no McCaffry. Regardless of if it was their choice or not, Max Payne without McCaffry is NOT Max Payne, like OP said. So yea, I was almost open to the new settings, curious to where they'd go, but now, I don't really give a $#!T...this is not true Payne, the changes are too radical.

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Film Noirs also took place in South America. just have a look at the most popular Humphrey Bogart pictures, they take place in sunny locales and it works great.

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Ok, first of all I agree to some extent. But I underline: to some extent.

Now, I'm most likely not going to comment on everything. Mostly because in my timezone, it's almost 9pm moment of writing this, and I've been awake for 24 hours straight. Coffee. I've made a much too friendly relationship with it. If I DO however comment on everything, blame yourself because you got me thinking about this. ;)

I agree that the original voice actor, McCaffrey, is going to be dearly missed. Suitable voice actors to replace him? Sure, there probably are some that are worthy, but nevertheless, McCaffrey will be missed! However I would've _LOVED_ to see him star in Max Payne, the movie, as Max Payne himself. Seriously, it would've kicked ass. His petty cameo role as that FBI dude made me feel warm, yet saddened because there was nearly no screentime for him. Sigh.

Regarding Brazil being the place of the action this time around; agreed. Theres not much noir about it. It's too bright, atleast as seen in the screenshots so far. But considering it's a Work In Progress, it's a fair shot to say that there is ALOT of time to improve on it. I am quite sure that RSV and Take2 are seeking through (combing) the internet for feedback on the current demo on storyline and visual appearance - hopefully, atleast. My gut feeling says that they will come up with something, which in the end will make us fans quite happy with the result. Who knows? Maybe they've got their very own little noir-genre diversity in the works? Only time will tell.

This brings me to another point, which is the ranting of RSV. Why such disdain when speaking of their previous product(s)? Humor me here: Take any game developers first (or first few) games, that really sucked in your opinion, but then made something that blew your mind. Any game developer. You'll see that in the end, all developers have something up their sleeves, and with time, skill improves. Not only game coding skills, but also storytelling skills. Sense for action that gamers like.
It's bloated and, pardon me, pompous, to believe that only Remedy knows Max Payne and what he is and stands for. First of all because I firmly believe that Remedy, in one way or another, have contributed whole idea of Max Payne 3. They might not be credited for it, but they sure as heck have, no matter how you put it. Remedy don't sell the rights for their game that basically is their child, just to see some other developer NOT continue in a similar vein as they. Not even if hell froze over. Sure, originality. There has to be a place for it, and I'm sure Remedy figured that out the moment they sold the rights.
The second this really is: How many of you, who say RSV shouldn't make Max Payne 3 because they suck compared to Remedy etc etc, and that you know Max Payne better than RSV does? How could you possibly know that? You don't even know if any of them have played the previous Max Payne games. In fact, for all you know, they could all be diehard fans of the games, maybe even more so than you, or me, or my dad. This, as the situation is right now, calls for a can of verbal whoop-ass, because it is, as I said, quite pompous. How about waiting until we get more news, insight or even hands-on previews before we start judging so confidently, shall we?

To conclude the above part of my comment, I'd like to add: How many of you knew Christopher Nolan before Memento, Insomnia or even Batman Begins? I sure as heck didn't. But nevertheless, he managed to go from a shortfilm called Doodlebug, which in the end wasn't all that bad, but still bad enough to get a score below 7 on IMDb, which I have deduced is not so good. Then game The Following, which got greater, but not very good reviews and scores. He managed to go from quite unknown, to bigger, better and currently, as we've seen in the news, 'best' and maybe even 'biggest'. Atleast at the moment. Do you concur?
Another example is for example guitarplayers. Do youtube search on something similar to "insane guitar skills" or "awesome guitar skills". You'll find TONS of people playing maybe even better than Eric Clapton or any other guitarist previously praised from that bluesy era. But the names are ENTIRELY unknown to you, most of the time anyhow.
Thus the conclusion is this: People CAN improve on skills, and they CAN prove to be better than one expects at first. Please, just give it a chance atleast until said reviews/hands-on's.

As a last but fairly short comment, as it's quite late for me as I write this, regarding Max Paynes looks in this sequel.

... I can NOT imagine why some of you don't realize that with age, even with workouts, you ARE able to get a bit of a belly, even though arms stay firm and awesome(Hehe). Just look at Arnold, Sly Stallone, Bruce Willis. Heck, look at Dolph Lundgren. All of them are quite adept at working out, but you being a bit inept however, that you can't see this as a reality. With 12 years having passed, which is a long time as previously stated, and Max pushing his 50's or maybe even a bit more, this is most realistic. Max, having endured so much in the previous games, have no doubt got a lot on his mind, even though he may have accepted the death of his beloved wife and child. But that doesn't have to mean anything in regards to his facial hair, tattoos and bald head (shaven or natural - I really don't give a damn). We all change. Even our protagonist does. Taste and style goes along with this. This isn't like Days of Our Lives, where everything is set up to be exactly the same (*cough* prejudice, I know) basically throughout the whole damned series. This is a game that, despite it's dark and droning atmosphere of film noir, in some ways depict a very real person. Atleast for me it does.

Now, things are getting a bit blurry for me, so I'll stop before I go into cardiac arrest from lack of sleep. Good night guys.

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You made some very good points. To bad so few people is not going to get what Rock Star is doing. They made the changes on Max Payne to early on. Also this whole balled deal with Max is not A big issue. The guy got shot in the head with Vlads frikkin GUN. May be he just decided to go with that after shaved him to surgicly remove the bullet from his cranium. The man is kind not to judge balled people. =)

If you notice any spelling mistakes it's becaus my first language isn't english and I'm going to bed. Lack on sleep here on my side aswell. G'night mate. Hope this game turn out as well as it can.

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I have a feeling this will actually turn out to be a good game. It just won't be a true Max Payne game... :(

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