MovieChat Forums > Hashmatsa Discussion > Victim will always remain to be 1

Victim will always remain to be 1

posted 13 years ago by sugacat2004
19 replies | jump to latest

Unfortunately, I can understand the hate towards the jews. They are provocative. Only by watching this documentary, I was really annoyed by the majority of people captured in the film. I can understand their anger, but the source of hate is plain obvious! :) I think it's in their nature, their essence, genes, WHATEVER! I did not met every single jew in the world (haha), but the majority I've came in a contact were the people I am glad to be able to ignore.
There's just nothing left to understand. Documentary speaks for itself. I don't hate. I don't like. I avoid.

[–] hafeez112233-1 13 years ago

Well, at least you admit to being a racist, which is more than most...

[–] sugacat2004 13 years ago

...like I said, plain simple and everyone may keep believing in whatever they believe. There's just no point in trying to knock in some point..it's just too old.
Whatever makes you happy :)
much love and hate and every other single emotion, because we are alive and feel the way we feel.

[–] Shazam-O 13 years ago

to say "i dislike the majority of Jews i've met" is not racist. it is simply observational fact.

[–] hafeez112233-1 13 years ago

Then I take it back, you are delusional like the rest...

That you observe people as "Jews" is racist...I don't think most of them wear signs.

Do you say things like "I dislike most green-eyed people I meet"?

I don't think so, but you are keen on picking out this characteristic, this one aspect of a person, and are quick to make a negative judgement regarding them.

This is not science, nor observation, but only allowing a prejudice to be rationalized by self-delusion.

And this is the very nature, indeed the essence, of racism.

If you do not wish to be a person of such ignorance and dangerous folly, then it would be wise to take a long, hard look at yourself in the mirror.

It seems that anti-semitism is the one of the last acceptable hatreds still condoned...and one only look at the ubiquity of comments such as yours in places such as this to see the truth of this.

One always hopes for progress, for enlightenment...too often we are miserably disappointed.

[–] sugacat2004 13 years ago

No, they didn't wear signs, those were kipas on the top of their heads. I won't go further with this really never ending discussion. In the end I will remain delusional and some of "Jews" will always remain the victims of anti-semitism :)
This place is to discuss movies/documentaries,etc and,well, it happened to be the right place to point out, yes, purely observational opinion on documentary and life facts...how it looks in my (hopefully delusional!) eyes. Otherwise, it really is creepy. :)

[–] Shazam-O 13 years ago

i'm not delusional, thanks. i actually have a Masters degree in political science and have studied gender, race, culture and class at great length.

most Jews i know self-identify as Jews. they don't need to wear a sign... or yellow star patch.

you are just an overly sensitive person with a need for a cause and to find injustices in every aspect of life.

[–] magicwalnuts-967-71716 13 years ago

It seems that both of you are missing the point. The problem is the language we are using. There is a difference between being Jewish and being Israeli, despite what many politically motivated people would lead you to believe.

Then you have Israeli extremists, which went from being organized as a fringe terrorist group (the Irgun) to organized as mainstream fundamentalist groups, and now controls the central Israeli government from the top using Likud as their political bulkhead. The most accurate term to describe these ruthless people is probably zionist fundamentalist.

Anti-Semitism is hating Jews because they are Jewish, and people should keep that in mind when they use it, since most people use it incorrectly. Its misuse in public discourse is deliberate and politically motivated. European Christians are anti-semites, they hate Jews because they are Jewish. Arabs, on the other hand tend to not be anti-semitic, although almost a century of war with an exclusively Jewish enemy probably blurs the lines for most young people. The problem is that Arabs cannot properly distinguish between Jews and Zionists.

[–] hafeez112233-1 13 years ago

I don't blame Arabs...they are a product of indoctrination, as I was...but rather the more educated and "liberal" western sympathizer who should know better.

As to not liking "most jews I met" a conclusion drawn from those wearing identifiable clothing...or most jews self-identify...both of these are pitiful rationalizations of what amounts to little more than racism.

One could casually observe that most arabs are bad because most of those we encounter are terrorists...which is true for a lot of americans who only see what they watch on tv...it is the same fallacy...and even if the self-identification myth were true...that does not mean they identify themselves to you.

And I will repeat what I have said before...yes, criticism of Israel is not always anti-semitism....but for those who pounce upon such criticism as "proof" of their prejudices, then they are indeed racist...

[–] SonOfEvermore 13 years ago

Hafeez. You are hilarious. That is all.

[–] salimy3k 12 years ago

"I don't blame Arabs...they are a product of indoctrination, as I was...but rather the more educated and "liberal" western sympathizer who should know better."

'product of indoctrinatin' - WHAAAT?!!! So I supposed that it's 'indoctrination' that's the reason why Arabs hate Jews - and not the fact that the Jews stole their land, actively discriminate against them in Israel, fought wars against them, have nukes and generally act as a nuisance. As far as 'liberal' sympathizer' (your description of sympathizers as 'liberal' tells me more about YOU than anything else) maybe they're just fed up of fighting wars on behalf of and spending 3 billion a year on a bunch of ungrateful parasites. OK?

"And I will repeat what I have said before...yes, criticism of Israel is not always anti-semitism....but for those who pounce upon such criticism as "proof" of their prejudices, then they are indeed racist..."

Yeah, because if a country is the worlds second largest manufacturer of arms and ammunition, has the most number of UN resolution violations against it's name, keeps voting in right-wing governments that do nothing to push the peace process forward and will not confirm nor deny that it has nukes while asking OTHER countries in the same vicinity to disarm, people are bound to have a negative impression of that country and it's citizens. And if the country is a THEOCRACY (like Israel) expect that negative impression to be extended to their religion of choice. The fact that you deem the negative impression people have of the religion to be down to 'racism' and not a history of violent, greedy and deviant behaviour is merely symptomatic of your ability to deny the root causes of other people's hostility towards you and your self-obsessed narcisissm in pretending to be a victim despite being financially, militarily and influentially better off tan the people you claim are discrimination against you.

[–] shurbanm 12 years ago

and you can add one more to the list...attempting to sell nukes to the then Nazi state of South Africa...

[–] shurbanm 12 years ago

The problem is that the israeli government has been led almost exclusively by the zionist. Hence the blurring of these 2 terms into one. When will Israel produce a moderate non-aggressive government?

[–] rroach50 12 years ago

"European Christians are anti-semites, they hate Jews because they are Jewish."

Are you applying that to all present day European Christians? And if so, would you include the Christians in the UK, USA, Canada & Australia?

[–] salimy3k 12 years ago

Ah yes ... if there's one thing I can't stand, it's when the oppressor pretends to be the oppressed ... case in point, this 'hafeez' fellow who is very clearly a closet Jew and has merely adopted this pretend persona of 'hafeez' to act like he's an arab defending those pesky Jews when clearly he's a self-deluded zionist who has his head too far up his backside; I mean, the signs are all there; the meaningless prose, the pretentious sentences that don't make sense, the self-deluding intellectual superiority when really all he/she/it has had is an overeducated yet under-intelligent prop masquerading as someone important - watch me demolish this freak:

"That you observe people as "Jews" is racist...I don't think most of them wear signs"

That's because the 'observation' part pertains to their behaviour (as in for example, Jack Abramoff, the observant Jew, who called the native Americans he was supposed to be representing in his capacity as a lawyer, racial slurs in taped interviews he did to prosecutors after he was convicted of fraud, while he was bilking out of millions at the same time!) and not to plaques around their necks...

'Do you say things like "I dislike most green-eyed people I meet"?'

That would depend on whether the green eyed person is a violent, racist, hateful, spiteful person who is intolerant of criticism yet will shamelessly criticize others and is hopelessly self-obsessed...

'I don't think so, but you are keen on picking out this characteristic, this one aspect of a person, and are quick to make a negative judgement regarding them.'

Your opinion is just that - an opinion. You assume that you are correct (you're NOT, BTW) simply because you deem yourself correct all the time by default - since only YOUR opinion matters. All you have done is accuse someone of being judgmental and making ad-hominem attacks while doing the same yourself.

'This is not science, nor observation, but only allowing a prejudice to be rationalized by self-delusion.'

Are you describing yourself?

'And this is the very nature, indeed the essence, of racism.'

You can't be racist if you're prejudiced against a person's religious affiliation. Race yes, religion no. Idiot.

'If you do not wish to be a person of such ignorance and dangerous folly, then it would be wise to take a long, hard look at yourself in the mirror.'

Please follow your own advice - then again, considering how self-important and narcissistic your rant is, you wouldn't learn anything and would just waste time admiring yourself.

'It seems that anti-semitism is the one of the last acceptable hatreds still condoned...and one only look at the ubiquity of comments such as yours in places such as this to see the truth of this.'

Actually 'anti-semitism' is just a slogan for priviliged people who just want something to shout at persons accusing them of wrongdoing in an effort to silence any dissent - the battlecry of someone who has officially run out of ideas in an argument and wants to stop discussion and start fighting.

'One always hopes for progress, for enlightenment...too often we are miserably disappointed'

Get used to being disappointed .. I bet your parents did when they had you, and so did I answering your insipid post...

[–] shurbanm 12 years ago

He did not say he hated them before he met them. That would be racism. He hated them after he met them which may not be governed by racism. In any case, there is not enough information to judge either way. The fact that you jumped to a conclusion that he is a racist underscores the very core of this issue. As soon as somebody says something negative about jews they are castigated as anti-semites. The man just expressed an opinion based on an observation.

[–] salimy3k 12 years ago

"Well, at least you admit to being a racist, which is more than most... "

LOLOLOLOL! Exactly HOW can one be a 'racist' when they're prejudiced against Jews? A bigot maybe, but definitely NOT a racist! After all, I thought that 'racism' entails discrimination against someone's race instead of their religion, doesn't it? Or has that simple fact escaped your limited intelligence?

[–] Crust89 12 years ago

"...but the source of hate is plain obvious! :) I think it's in their nature, their essence, genes, WHATEVER!"

This. Which, after looking at some of your other posts, is ironic because you justify anger towards Israel in much more objective terms. When you classify an entire ethnic group as bad people because its in their nature you are a racist. Then you say that its only a religion. Which is it?

"...and not the fact that the Jews stole their land, actively discriminate against them in Israel, fought wars against them, have nukes and generally act as a nuisance."

I'd say this is a reasonable assessment of frustration with ISRAEL not JEWS. Again, you lump all Jews into being associated with a pro-zionist mindset. I'll just assume you meant Israel instead of Jews. The point I want to make here is that you give an assessment for hatred towards Israel that looks at history but then do not give the same assessment to Jewish frustration with anti-semitism. Maybe the Jewish people you meet are angry because they, I dunno, are personally related to a holocaust survivor? Or have lived in a state of perpetual conflict?

[–] Riarcus 7 years ago

People can debate the impact of genetics forever but I believe the outcome to be nominal. It is ideas, for example Wahhabism, that makes people more prone to violence or other negative behavior. Jews are not born evil or bad anymore than anyone else is.

It is fine to be against the actions or words of a Jewish person. For example, I have no particular fondness for Noel Ignatiev and his racism. But if I said I'm against all Jews because of him than I'm no better than he is. Jews should be judged on their own merit. Part of what this movie showed is that not all Jews think alike.

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 4 years ago

Oy vey !