Who Killed Joe? - RED (2010) Discussion

[–] kidshicks 13 years ago

it was victoria nd joe didnt die...

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Wait you just confused me. I thought he did die. He wasn't in the rest of the film so if he didn't die where did he go? I was wondering who killed him also.

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[–] jostrowski3 13 years ago

He does get killed. It was likely just a sniper that Alexander Dunning had in place to take out Frank, when he came out, but Joe went out to take one for the team, to let them escape.

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[–] EllenRipley47 13 years ago

He gets killed but it isn't explained by whom. I always thought that it was someone from the FBI and that turned Cooper around.

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[–] SampanMassacre 13 years ago

I'm not sure who killed him but I'm sure Sarah Palin will be blamed.

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[–] williamhastings2007 13 years ago

Well, she likes to kill the defenseless. Even though she didn't, I'm sure she'll take credit for it.

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[–] TwinkDream 13 years ago

LMAO!!!!

This store is cool! It's huge with all the young people, I mean, all the us!- Jenna Marooney

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[–] AlexMorgan13 13 years ago

lol?

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[–] dmldc 13 years ago

Maybe we'll get lucky and Bruce Willis, John Malkovich and Helen Mirren will visit Alaska next.

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[–] saywhen63 12 years ago

He wanted to die. Because of the cancer.

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[–] praxistens 12 years ago

Earlier, Joes says what can they do to me, & Frank says they can shoot ya. & They do.
51depasser

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[–] rp69 13 years ago

>>>>>I'm not sure who killed him but I'm sure Sarah Palin will be blamed.<<<<<

Come on. You know the order was handed down 4 years ago from George Bush.

"Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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[–] ldddhunter 11 years ago

OMG enough w/the George Bush crap - he wasn't even the pres during this movie - it was Obama, who has his Kool-Aid drinking liberal followers - they act like the man can walk on water; right NOW its 2013 and they have so much crap on him, which of course is being "covered", if he was a REAL man he would step down especially as I said they have a lot of "corruption" w/in his administration and of course he's the MAIN problem. Obama WILL destroy the United States because he just doesn't care..... as for Sarah Palin - recently Bill Maher called her son a toddler a retard; its disgusting, yeah pick on Palin she has thick skin but leave her child out of it. There was a comedian who was from Las Vegas (that is where he does his stand-ups) and even he refused to do Maher show; he did however come out and tell Mcaher that what he said about Palin's toddler was uncalled for and that he refused to be his guest; so he walked off. I've been told that this comedian (whose name I don't know is a liberal) at least he had the common sense to walk off the set after he told Maher that calling names about an innocent child was despicable (not exact words he said but you get my point) I guess you can google and find out who this SMART comedian's name is.... GOOD FOR HIM.

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[–] rp69 11 years ago

@ldddhunter

I disavow any posts I have previously made on this forum or particular thread, as I currently have no recollection of this movie or the context of said posts.
-Rep.Rp69(R-Fantasyland)

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[–] Hollidar (1) 3 years ago

Lol why bc you quoted John Wayne? Give me a break

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] barkbarkwoof 11 years ago

She was the one in the helicopter that shot David Morrissey.

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[–] cdunbar-3 13 years ago

I wonder what makes you think Joe didn't die? Remember the conversation before they go out the door? Joe introduces the subject of making a hard choice and then he and Moses reminisce over their past, how they'd enjoyed some wild old times. Then they embrace, something men don't do for trivial reasons. They were clearly saying goodbye without putting it into words. After the escape, the remaining team all raise their glasses in a toast to Joe: their collective glum mood says it all. Joe wasn't wounded, he died for their cause.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] skippypom12 12 years ago

He didn't fake his death at the nursing home - he killed the guy who came to kill him. I would assume that when Frank rang the home, the hysterical nurse probably said he's gone or he's dead or something but was meaning the other guy was dead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karl Urban =

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[–] kidshicks 13 years ago

ok maybe he did die but i dont think so...I think Victoria shot him because when she was explaining to the younger lady why she shot the man she loved 3 times and later the man showed Bruce Willis the scars from her story. thats why i think Joe lived and she took the shot.

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[–] AlexMorgan13 13 years ago

no he sacrificed himself because he is terminally ill anyway, they knew it was a trap..

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[–] pope_duke 13 years ago

>no he sacrificed himself because he is terminally ill anyway, they knew it was a trap..

Exactly. It was not Victoria.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ShaniquaJohnson 12 years ago

no he sacrificed himself because he is terminally ill anyway, they knew it was a trap..

That's what I thought initially. Then I remembered the story about Victoria shooting her love in the chest rather than in the head. If she wanted to, apparently she could place the bullets almost surgically.

It leaves the door open. Fact is, this movie is full of impossibilities anyway, so anything's possible.

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[–] TejasNair 11 years ago

I would like to believe that and wait for RED 2. Peace.

Unorthodox Cinema Critic Since 2009.
Number of movies watched: >700

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[–] Diamondback98 13 years ago

ok maybe he did die but i dont think so...I think Victoria shot him because when she was explaining to the younger lady why she shot the man she loved 3 times and later the man showed Bruce Willis the scars from her story. thats why i think Joe lived and she took the shot.

Uh, they also drank in honor Joe in the immediate scene after Joe's death. If Victoria had faked killing him, I think she would have let the group in on it at that time.

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[–] AlexMorgan13 13 years ago

Victoria knew where to shoot to look for real without killing, he didn't shoot him in the head which would be a sure kill...

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shelby12589 13 years ago

lets pray that there isnt a sequel let alone a franchise.
Now now now..im not saying your ugly, im just saying your not pretty.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shelby12589 12 years ago

Are you serious? You're really nitpicking my old signature? Yeah, you're a troll.

Alaric: You killed me!
Damon: you pissed me off.
The Vampire Diaries <3

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[–] rp69 13 years ago

>>>If there's a sequel he should totally come back. Hell, he could die once or twice per movie for the whole franchise.<<<

Oh my god. They killed Joe......You Bastards!!

"Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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[–] Pudgzilla 13 years ago

After Joe gets shot, it shows a view from Victoria's scope, which is targeting Cooper. So, it wasn't Victoria.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lnshew 13 years ago

To make a noble sacrifice...if he'd been killed by the assassin at the beginning, he would have just been an old guy who wasn't good at his job anymore. All quest films need a noble sacrifice.

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[–] goodone1944 13 years ago

I agree, she immediately shot him before anyone else could. She probably shot a clean through and through---he'll probably pop up in the sequel.

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[–] Plague2005 13 years ago

because when she was explaining to the younger lady why she shot the man she loved 3 times and later the man showed Bruce Willis the scars from her story.

The whole purpose was to hint on the backstory that Victoria and Ivan were once lovers. That's all. Victoria was in the wrong angle and also was aiming at Cooper when the shot was taken. And Joe is definitely dead. He sacrificed himself so that others can escape. Since he was dying anyway, he decided to sacrifice.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] rickb69 11 years ago

I am fairly new to this, how did you highlight

because when she was explaining to the younger lady why she shot the man she loved 3 times and later the man showed Bruce Willis the scars from her story.

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[–] Plague2005 11 years ago

Hi,

It's simple. Use the Quote tag (you will see it in the reply window at the top). Put whatever text you want to highlight between the quote tags and it will be highlighted. You can use the preview button to see how it will look and correct it until you get the right way you want it.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] rickb69 11 years ago

It's simple. Use the Quote tag (you will see it in the reply window at the top). Put whatever text you want to highlight between the quote tags and it will be highlighted. You can use the preview button to see how it will look and correct it until you get the right way you want it.

Thank you

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[–] bing-57 13 years ago

It was Victoria. And Joe is not dead.

Remember that Victoria is quite good at shooting men without killing them. She shot Joe so that no one else would shoot him with a lethal shot. And Joe has died many times before. Joe didn't come back before the end of the movie because he was in the hospital and/or custody.

The movie gave you all the clues and you just need to put them all together.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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[–] AlexMorgan13 13 years ago

remember Joe is terminally ill though, if anything it's a mercy killing rather than a slow suffering death...

it may have been Victoria who shot too, but still doens't mean he isn't dead...

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[–] bing-57 13 years ago

> if anything it's a mercy killing rather than a slow suffering death...

If Joe wanted a quick, merciful death, he could have done it himself. He could have even let the CIA agent shoot him in his nursing home.

No. Joe fought for every day he had left coming to him.

> but still doens't mean he isn't dead...

True. But look at the rest of the movie up to that point. The good guys killed few, if any, of the enemy, despite the CIA using lethal force against them. The producers wanted to show the good guys in the best light possible. And shooting one of your own team members, even out of mercy, would not fit the mold.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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[–] jeffandsarah-1 13 years ago

Dick Cheney, by accident.

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[–] AlexMorgan13 13 years ago

well i think that he wanted to die by sacrifice, not just commit suicide...

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] AlexMorgan13 13 years ago

say what??

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[–] marshjes 13 years ago

That was an inside joke of "Unforgiven"

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[–] lolptik 13 years ago

You all know that this is based on a comic book, right? Why don't ya'll pick that book up and see for yourself.

edited to include link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_%28comics%29

Yes. Warren Ellis wrote it. He does great stories.

inveniam viam aut faciam

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[–] jmhow 11 years ago

You know Joe, Marvin, and Victoria were created for the movie, right? Even the lead character's name was changed from Paul to Frank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_(WildStorm_comics)

www.freerice.com

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[–] DaveFishBulb 11 years ago

Did you forget about the boatloads of CIA people they killed (in self-defence) at Franks house and the airport?

When the door goes down blow the bulbs.

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[–] amir9988 13 years ago

Victoria shot Ivan 3 times near the sternum, on the opposite side of the heart. Joe was shot once in the heart (you can see the bullet hole as Cooper turns him over). Victoria didn't take the risk of shooting near the heart with Ivan, she wouldn't have with a much more frail Joe. Also, when Victoria tells Joe to come out, she has him covered, Victoria is looking at Cooper through the sites. After Joe is shot, Victoria looks at him out of scope, then looks back into her scope, showing that she was angled on Cooper, not the front door of the house.
Listen to the shot from the gun that shot Joe. The initial sound has a low tone, Victoria's gun has a somewhat medium to high pitch tone because of the surpressor. You also hear a booming echo from the shooter's gun, but not Victoria's in the next scene where she is covering their escape.
Joe knew he had months to live, he stated he had stage 4 liver cancer and that he's 80 years old. I don't think Frank would've said "(it was) An Honor" in the scene before Joe was shot if he didn't know that Joe was going to die.

End point: Joe sacrificed himself in order to create a diversion and allow the others to escape. The gun that shot Joe and the gun that Victoria was using didn't sound alike nor was Victoria aiming at the front door, meaning that Joe was not shot by Victoria, but most likely by someone who was hired by either Dunning or Cynthia Wilkes.

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[–] skippypom12 13 years ago

Agree with amir9988.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karl Urban =

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[–] sbwheeler65 13 years ago

......so who Killed Joe?

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[–] indioblack117 13 years ago

Well if it isn't Victoria, then it is really bad scriptwriting. To set up the idea that Victoria can shoot a man without killing him, and the idea that Joe is a man who has "died" many times, and then not make use of those ideas at a crucial point in the story, is totally stupid.

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[–] ehbunner 13 years ago

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that it's Marvin who they specifically said has died many times...when they are stealing the boat

Joe does make sure that the girl is on their side before confirming that he wasn't really dead(in the ambulances) but I don't remember it being stated that he has died many times, though that may be the case

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[–] mal karma 13 years ago

Please. The shot that killed Joe makes a very noticeable echo, while Victoria's gun has a silencer, which while not 100% silent, makes much less noise. I just played that scene to make sure.

Plus, Victoria was pointing at Cooper the whole time, and if she had shot Joe, then why didn't Sarah say something? and why keeping us in the dark?

Being able to shoot someone 3 times in the chest and not killing him doesn't mean anything - all of the RED's plus Cooper can do that.

You are seeing too much into it.

"That was a courtesy flush. I'm not actually done yet"

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[–] Smallville30 11 years ago

Silencers don't work like in bind movies. It still would have made enough noise in that area to make an echo

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[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Dream_Demon 13 years ago

I think it was a sniper hired by Richard Dreyfuss' character.

Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger

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[–] paulabarclay 13 years ago

I think it was Frank or Marvin, with Joe's consent. Joe coming out the door by itself would not be enough of a diversion for them to escape. But in the mass confusion after the shooting, they would be able to make a run for it.

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[–] Testpattern 13 years ago

IMHO:

It's a plot device and meant to be debatable, precisely as it is being discussed here. If this were not true then why have Cooper exclaim "Who fired that shot?" (or something similar!)

It's supposed to be a mystery and allow for Joe to re-appear (or not).

Surely with everyone stationary and quietly waiting, it should have been easy to determine the direction the shot came from. In fact, not knowing where the shot came from would've resulted in a more cautious approach (if any!) to the fallen man.

Joe and Frank were momentarily melancholy because there was a very real chance that upon emerging from the door, Joe could've been shot by any one of the many sharpshooters and gunmen who waited outside (either intentionally or inadvertently) instead of their covert diversionary ploy (which was unbeknownst to us) working.

"Around here, consultant ain't nothing but another word for unindicted co-conspirator"

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[–] ladypalasatenea 13 years ago

I agree. One shot in the chest. He didn´t die. Remember when she said that he came out.

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[–] greenheart814 12 years ago

I feel that the storytellers had a brainfart to have messed up so badly regarding the Joe character's treatment. Happier I would have been if after the credits there were an epilogue revealing that Joe was recouperating at the oldies home and cared for by the same one he ogled in his first scene.

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[–] mad_roke 12 years ago

Let's keep it in another direction guys..
what would be the meaning of Joe still living? To die months later, because of the cancer? Yeah, makes sense. His cancer was incurable. He decided to die a rather noble death.

Joe died to save the team and the mentioned arguments for this theory are based on the facts you actually see and hear in the scene. Helen Mirren's character might be a professional sniper, but she isn't a magician, who can magically create a rather loud gunshot whilst she is scoping another target with a silenced rifle. Also she doesn't have the "super power" to kill a man without killing him... The whole point was to reveal her relationship with Ivan. Everyone of the high trained ex-agents could bust three shots in someone to make it look like he was dead. Also the character, who "died" many times was Marvin as I remember. Most likely this was a subtle way to say, that he (frequently?) faked his own death to get under the grid. After all he was paranoid and faking his own death to move into his hide-out would've been very fitting. Considering that he really is crazy (and his paranoia isn't THAT illusionary) he might have done it more than one or two times.
It was an unknown gunman of Dreyfuss' character, because he wanted Frank (like the other R.E.D.s) dead and therefore Joe playing the Frank was killed. Frank and Joe didn't say good-bye just because it COULD get hairy. It was a serious good-bye. After all maybe Victoria would've shot Joe later on, or fired at Cooper to create a diversion and save Joe's life and the team itself. Nevertheless she looks right at Cooper during the shot and her gun sounds totally different, so she didn't do it. Plain simple. Maybe Victoria causing a rain of bullets was even the back up plan, in case if they had to make a run for it. The plan nevertheless was intervened by some anonymous shooter. In my opinion it's okay to let the killer be unknown, because what would've been the sense if they'd have revealed his identity? So that Frank can kill him and take "THIS IS FOR JOE!"-revenge on a simple guy, who was following orders? Well, that wouldn't happen, because Frank already knew that Joe would most likely be killed and after all knew of his cancer.

Also the scene was needed to make Cooper more cautious. He thought he had it under control and that the plan of capturing them is the main target, but seeing Joe getting shot without direct orders made him be more suspicious.

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[–] AngelWhoWaited 12 years ago

I just had to say ... Awesome response!!

I was reading the other responses and wanted to shout at these people "OMG! DO YOU NOT PAY ATTENTION WHEN YOU WATCH A MOVIE!?!?"

MARVIN was the paranoid who had "died" many times, NOT Joe. Joe was dying so he made the noble sacrifice.

Victoria DID NOT shoot Joe. Very simply and most obviously, she was at the wrong angle to have hit Joe in the chest.

Joe was shot by one of Dunning's flunkies.

Those of you who obviously DON'T get it, do you NEED everything laid out for you? Do you NEED to see the eye look through the scope as the crosshairs line up on the target, the finger slide into the trigger guard, then gently squeeze the trigger and then follow the path of the bullet as it leaves the barrel and hits the target?

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