MovieChat Forums > Red Dawn (2012) Discussion > as if north koria would attack the secon...

as if north koria would attack the second most powerfull nation on earth


stupid film

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As the movie pointed out, North Korea is acting as a surrogate for Russia (and, perhaps, China). A "super EMP" weapons, as has been suggested is actually being developed, could well take out the power grid. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/19/north-korea-emp-attack-could-destroy-us-now/?page=all . Right now, 40th of our supercarriers are in dock undergoing repairs or upgrade. A single nuke would make these ships unusable. http://news.usni.org/2013/02/08/navy-lincoln-refueling-delayed-will-hurt-carrier-readiness/five-carriers-in-norfolk Meanwhile, 1/3 of our active duty combat squadrons are grounded due to the sequester.http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/09/us-air-force-begins-grounding-some-combat-squadrons-because-automatic-spending/ China has a mutual defense treaty with North Korea and both China and Russia border North Korea. While the "Pacific Rim Mutual Defense Agreement" described in the first few minutes of the movie does not exist, BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) plan to bring down the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Unfortunately, "Red Dawn" is quite plausible and Americans who brag like "armchair warriors" are the first to react liked whipped puppies when disasters such as the Boston bombings and 911 occur.

The US has not been invaded by a foreign power since 1812 and we have not seen active combat by well-equipped military forces since 1865. Besides, the enemy may not be foreign, but our own Department of Homeland Security, which recently made a HUGE purchase of hollow-point 9mm ammunition and armored personnel carriers. People criticizing this movie at this site conveniently forget that the writers for the MSM are government stooges who ignore "kill lists," "indefinite detention" and "unlawful searches and seizures. such as those conducted daily by the TSA. Also, those who complain this "Red Dawn" is inferior to the original conveniently forget the original was panned by critics for many of these same reasons.

The criticisms I do have of the film is that it is far too optimistic. The North Koreans proved to be absolutely ruthless against US military occupying South Korea in 1950. The first they would likely do is kill at least half the population of Spokane, possibly with nerve agents or artillery. They would then execute all of the non-essential white people. They would then burn all of the structures they did not deem essential. There would be no time to train green kids. Only healthy veterans or hunters would likely survive and even they would most likely be taken down before they could organize an effective resistance force.

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Your explanation in my opinion is flawed.

First of all EMPs are not new and the US has done plenty of research on them and their countermeasures.

Second, an invasion of the American continent is a tactical nightmare. The US, as the only superpower in the world, has the most powerful navy and most advanced army in the world. If one were to invade America, you would have to get past the US Navy and Air Force first before you touched the mainland. The DPRK, China, and Russia don't even possess blue-water navies, an essential in trans-oceanic invasion.

Third, we have various nuclear submarines patrolling the ocean 24/7. They could easily shoot their missiles if given the order and i highly doubt an EMP could knock out EVERY US sub in the world.

Fourth, the sequester and all these other economic arguments in Congress will eventually resolve themselves.

Fifth, an invasion of the US by the DPRK, China, and/or Russia would be detected via our satellites and radar before it was even initiated (an invasion of such magnitude would be hard to conceal). Our allies in East Asia (ROK, Japan) and Europe (NATO) would instantly react and counterattack if an attempted invasion occurred.

You also forget that the DPRK has no sympathizers. All UN Permanent Security Council Nations voted to slap sanctions on the DPRK due to their recent behavior. China and Russia, like the US, are equally as annoyed with them. Also I don't believe China has a mutual defense pact with the DPRK. China only stands behind the DPRK because they serve as a buffer toward US influence. But I don't believe they are automatically obligated ally themselves with them.

And how are the BRIC nations bringing down the American economy?

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[deleted]

Props goes out to you BiggJayy

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Also, do not forget how important the right for citizens to bear arms is. Call it a political issue if you want, but it makes it an absolute nightmare for any country to have to deal with the additional 200 million 'soldiers' they will see if they did invade. No country would ever be that foolish, considering our current disposition.

Also, What's with the use of this 'ad hominen'? Heads up: you sound like an idiot using this term. Reeks of 'check out how smart I am because I know what this obscure Latin term means'. Just don't do it...don't...

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No country would ever be that foolish, considering our current disposition.
Seemed everybody, their sister and their dog has guns in Afghanistan......but then maybe that makes the U.S. foolish.

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They are a stone age country, tribal, and ethnically divided without a strong military. Point taken, yet very different situation. For the US, any country wanting to invade would have to face the strongest military in the galaxy AND the additional 200 million armed individuals. In afghanistan, you're facing people stone age people with guns. Formidable as they are, still no comparison.

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Sorry to be pedantic as I essentially agree with you but the Afghans are closer to the 10 Century not the Stone Ages. They also get a lot of help from extremist elements outside their country.

Stone to Bronze Age level peoples decimated by centuries of disease ensured it took several centuries for the Americas to be colonised...technologically primitive doesn't mean unable to fight. Humans, even less advanced humans can be deadly opponents.

To invade a country like the USA would require a LOT of soldiers and levels of brutality akin to the Mongol invasions. Only Russia, China, or blocs of countries like all of Europe together would even have the logistics to carry it off and there would be no guarantee of success. That's why the Soviets spent more money on propaganda wars than proxy or direct war. They funded many anti-war movements and far left groups in the West and the effects of that are still felt today.

N.


"You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts"

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America reportedly isn't the strongest country in terms of sheer force. And certainly not the strongest entity.

I am a strong America lover myself, I am a born and bred Netherlander or Dutchman, but apart from it's national political system (which isn't too bad, considering..), it is a crap country (with no real sense of patriotism - except when playing WC or EC soccer - completely retarded famous people, stupid movies - which are, without exception, even stupider than average porn - even stupider music - if you know anything about German 'schlagers' and trashy folk music, you would agree fully), with a crap culture and no sense of style whatsoever.
So, yay U-S-A!

But let's get honest. The USA is nothing more than a policeman outside of his jurisdiction most of the time. I guess it comes from a good heart or hearts. But in Africa, the Middle-East, Asia - in those places the USA has overstayed its welcome. Capitalism and democracy are terrific, but in areas like in the crappy Middle-East, people much rather kill each other.

Countries like Iraq, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Yemen, Somalia - they are crap - but the only thanks you get is the bombing of 9/11. Those people and their governments are animals - you'd be better off letting them kill each other amongst themselves. I am not saying I don't value life, just that you should keep your own country and people in check first, before judging and controlling others.

Although the USA is the largest economy in the world, they are far from the best and even farther from being the most efficient or beneficial. In countries like Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Japan, the actual quality of life is far better. Even countries like France, Germany, The Netherlands, while far from great are far better than the USA.


In absolute terms, China has the largest army. And if they use surprise then they actually could wipe out the USA in a land war. The USA has the superior navy, with more aircraft-carriers and subs than the rest of the world combined.. or do they? As far as we know in Europe countries like Iran and China do not tell other countries what they do, don't do, have and don't have. Those same countries do not even allow US built satellites in their stratosphere. The USA is quite isolated in the facts that ordinary civilians often don't even know world topography - they only know the things the government want you to know.. and that is that they are superior in every way conceivable.
The evil countries of the Middle-East (except Israel) would make a fierce and unforgiving adversary. Just remember the filthy Afghans with their thirty year old Russian RPG's in the trenches - they make minced meat of the US state of the art Apache helicopters. And they play dirty. The USA uses diplomacy where Arabs kill babies and rape your wife.

Israel is an ally to the USA. But pound for pound they have the mightiest, most sophisticated, largest (per capita) and most unforgiving army and intelligence branche there is on the face of the earth. Those guys DO NOT play around. Mossad trains the US not the other way around.


We are all very lucky - the only thing keeping us alive is our head. And the filth from the Middle-East is not united. But keep in mind, a potential entity, a united Middle-East allied to China - which is not that crazy, if you know - would potentially black out the USA and could completely prohibit them ever setting foot abroad again. In a land war, those guys do not keep prisoners, they kill and rape every INFIDEL they find - even children.

"Hey, I'll be a part of this world."

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Bingedrinker,

I've been to the US and China several times. The Chinese care more about keeping China united (by force if needed) than what goes on outside China. China calls itself the 'Middle Country' and has done for a long time. Even at the height of Tang or Ming Imperialism China barely swelled beyond it's current borders (The Ming had the money and manpower to completely conquer Europe and colonise most of the Americas but barely noticed the outside world). Compare this to my own tiny nation which ran the largest Empire in human history, or the Mongols, the Romans, the Muslims and so many others.

Most countries, including China have limited to no long range strike capacity. For China to send the tens of millions of troops over the Pacific to invade the US would mean having to avoid the US airforce and navy and likely all it's allies who would suffer economically with a US downfall - which they couldn't do in such a large operation. China is developing a blue water navy but is many decades behind the USA, Britain etc and it's too tied with the US economically to risk open war.

N.




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Stone Age?! Did you ACTUALLY just say that? Did I just see those words typed out on my screen?
Oh but then you describe the US as the strongest force in the galaxy… aaaah. Thank God we've gone to galactic level.
I was worried the Thargs might combine forces with the Stone Age people and teach them how to shoot with the boomsticks. You absolute disgrace to humanity.

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Your an idiot and your reply proves that one.

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"You're" an idiot, and your reply proves it.

Don't mention it.

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Oh look someone who gives idiotic replies tries to correct people. Maybe you should correct your lack of thought and intelligence more so then correcting peoples grammar you may get friends one day. I left you some work in this reply btw

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I love you. Please be my friend.

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Reminds me of an old documentary where the narrator/translator kept saying Korear rofl.

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It was made pretty clear North Korea was not acting alone.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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The idea that North Korea with no navy and a military budget of a billion and a half dollars could attack anybody is preposterous even with help.

They could not even attack Japan or Taiwan.

North Korea's entire economy is $40B about the same as the net worth of bill gates or Warren Buffett.

One poster said that they could attack us the way bin laden did on 9/11 but that is not what the movie was about. The movie depicts a military invasion not a terrorist attack!

As for that help it would obviously come from China but why would China want to attack us they sell $350B worth of their products to us a year and hold a trillion and a half of our debt?

The attitudes that would allow somebody to like this film is why we are bankrupt as a country. We spend too much money on our military and too much money on entitlements.

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The idea that North Korea with no navy and a military budget of a billion and a half dollars could attack anybody is preposterous even with help.


Oh, okay. Have any valid points to back that up?


North Korea's entire economy is $40B about the same as the net worth of bill gates or Warren Buffett.


How is that even relevant? They're a totalitarian state. What difference does their GDP make?

As for that help it would obviously come from China but why would China want to attack us they sell $350B worth of their products to us a year and hold a trillion and a half of our debt?


So you didn't watch the movie, is what you're saying? The help came from Russia.

The attitudes that would allow somebody to like this film is why we are bankrupt as a country. We spend too much money on our military and too much money on entitlements.


What exactly does that have to do with anything?

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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What difference does their GDP make? What an idiot!

They are dirt poor and technologically inferior! Do you fear an invasion from Guatemala? It's about the same thing.

They don't have the economy and the resources to transport, feed, clothe and equip a real military force that could invade any country thousands of miles away. They don't even have a navy to get the troops here.


North Korea is not a viable threat to the United States even with Russian or Chinese help.

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They are dirt poor and technologically inferior! Do you fear an invasion from Guatemala? It's about the same thing.


Don't be stupid. That's like saying Germany wasn't a threat in WW2 or that Russia wasn't a threat during the cold war. A totalitarian militant regime can always be a threat, regardless of their GDP.

And unlike Guatemala, North Korea has a strong standing army. Just because they're both relatively poor countries doesn't mean they're the same.

They don't have the economy and the resources to transport, feed, clothe and equip a real military force that could invade any country thousands of miles away. They don't even have a navy to get the troops here.


Once again, you seem to be forgetting that we're talking about a movie. A movie in which North Korea has help from the Russians. Who could pose a threat on their own.

North Korea is not a viable threat to the United States even with Russian or Chinese help.


The ignorance of this statement is ridiculous.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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Don't be stupid. That's like saying Germany wasn't a threat in WW2 or that Russia wasn't a threat during the cold war. A totalitarian militant regime can always be a threat, regardless of their GDP.

And unlike Guatemala, North Korea has a strong standing army. Just because they're both relatively poor countries doesn't mean they're the same.


Nobody thought German wasn't a threat in WWII or Russia wasn't a threat during the Cold War. However, those countries at least had the resources, military, and infrastructure to support massive invasions. The DPRK, though heavily militarized, barely has enough resources to sustain their military. You can have a huge military, but if you lack the money and resources to fund it, then your military won't be able to fully function for long.

Once again, you seem to be forgetting that we're talking about a movie. A movie in which North Korea has help from the Russians. Who could pose a threat on their own.


If it's a movie, then we might as well have a serious movie where the US invades Canada/Britain. Of course we don't have such a movie because people would laugh at such a movie and avoid it.

Russia doesn't have a blue-water navy, which is essential if one wants to mount a trans-oceanic invasion. The only way Russia could effectively threaten the US would be through the potential use of nuclear weapons. Also Russia is equally annoyed with the DPRK as much as the US and China is. There's also not much for Russia to gain by allying itself with the DPRK.

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second most powerful? LOL umm the US is THE most powerful country on the Earth. Plus its just a movie. The rule of thumb in war is you do not attack countries that can nuke you back into the stone age.

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The rule of thumb in war is you do not attack countries that can nuke you back into the stone age.


True! You attack countries that seem weak on paper only to find, 11 years later, yourself in the humiliating position to withdraw (and refuse war reparations because you were not there as an active combatant but as an ADVISOR!).



Cute and cuddly boyz!!

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[deleted]

In terms of active military personnel, you are correct, the US has the second largest army on Earth. North Korea has the fifth.

In terms of reserve military personnel, however - as in number of citizens who are trained combatants and would be returned to active duty in time of war - the US has about 850 thousand. North Korea has south of EIGHT MILLION, which ranks it first in the world.

Also, they may be behind on hardware but consider that a staggering 25% of their country's entire GDP is devoted to military spending! And their society is structured in a way that would allow them to crank this number up to 50% if the need arises. Furthermore, consider that their military hardware and logistical base are not researched, developed and manufactured by private contractors in a market economy as in the US, but by government-owned enterprises (the only kind in DPRK), which brings prices considerably down.

It is a matter of debate if they would really be able to pull off a full scale invasion of the US if they decided and if the logistical disparity may be offset by the fact that they are able to whip up NINE trained soldiers for every one of yours. It is a certainty that such an undertaking will be disastrous for them in the long term both socially and politically. But it is not impossible. As a hypothetical - it is certainly doable.

It may be a stupid movie but not for the reason you cite.

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I've just watched the movie, and I thought it was ok, at least not as bleak as the original, but there seems to be one concept missing from this particular thread. It may well not be a wise or sane move for North Korea to attack America, this is true. However, who said Kim Jong Un is sane or wise (outside of North Korea) at least?

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It would be impossible for North Korea to invade the US, since they have no way to transport troops here. They would have no logistics system to support any troops, even if they could transport them here.

I understand that a lot of people around the world hate the US, but try and remain logical. The US could invade any country in the world. We might not win, but we could, since we have a large Navy and Air Force that could transport troops and supplies anywhere. We could at least get troops in, for a short period of time. A few other countries could somewhat make that boast as well, although with much higher difficulty. Look at the recent French incursion in Mali, where they had to call on the US Air Force and the RAF to provide transport planes to get men and material into Mali.

So, when talking hypotheticals, you could say that the US could invade Guatemala. This is true statement, since we could. We could also invade Italy, or Canada, or Japan. Those are all hypothetically possible. What isn't hypothetically possible is a country like North Korea, with no blue water navy and no heavy air transport, could invade the US or any other country more than a thousand miles from it's own borders.

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The U.S. is, by official ranking, the most powerful nation on Earth. Russia sits at second and China comes in third. And if you remember, in the movie, they even said that North Korea had to have had help because they could never have successfully done it on their own. This is why, not only did the North Koreans use that EMP weapon to cut out all power to the west coast, which was the part of the U.S. that their forces invaded, but they also did it in cooperation with the Russians, who had invaded the east coast and assisted the North Koreans in the west by sending in spetsnaz...

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[deleted]