MovieChat Forums > You Don't Know Jack (2010) Discussion > No real opposition in the movie

No real opposition in the movie


I liked the movie, it was well directed, well paced and wonderfully played. I think it was a fresh breath for Pacino after the truly awful Righteous Kill. I am a physician and I understand and agree with the need for eutanasia. The only thing that bothered me a little in "You Don't Know Jack" was that out of all his opponents in the movie there was not at least one intelligent and consistent character. They were all either religiously delusioned or carеer motivated. One of the most important moments in the movie was Sarandon's character line about the need for rules - evaluation by many doctors, psychiatric help etc. I'm not saying Jack was agaist this but there was no real discussion in the movie about the actual reasons what he did could be considered bad. It was implied many times in differnt ways but none of them was likable thus leaving the spectator with the easy choice to sympathise with Kevorkyan. And that shouldn't be an easy choice. Nice movie though.

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A very good observation, Aeronnen - one thing that definitely cheapens the movie is that all those against euthanasia were rendered so vile, self serving and plain evil that they might as well have been cast as lower scale Bond villains. It´s cheapens the film and stops people from taking the polemic as seriously as it should be taken. It´s like in Schindler´s List the main bad guy is a mentally imbalanced serial killer who was actually put to trial for the bloodbaths and general lack of sanity by Nazis themselves. All this kinda approach does, is draw attention from ´real´ issues and complexities - and prevent finding adequate solutions for burning problems.




"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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A very good observation, Aeronnen - one thing that definitely cheapens the movie is that all those against euthanasia were rendered so vile, self serving and plain evil that they might as well have been cast as lower scale Bond villains. It´s cheapens the film and stops people from taking the polemic as seriously as it should be taken. It´s like in Schindler´s List the main bad guy is a mentally imbalanced serial killer who was actually put to trial for the bloodbaths and general lack of sanity by Nazis themselves. All this kinda approach does, is draw attention from ´real´ issues and complexities - and prevent finding adequate solutions for burning problems.

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Ah, another 'we should look at the other side of the argument when it comes to euthanasia' guy who offers nothing of substance. (What is the other side of the argument again?)

Here, I'll simplify it for you:

I believe euthanasia should be completely, fully, 100% legal because people should have the right to choose to die instead of suffering with horrible conditions you and I cannot even begin to imagine.

Now, smart guy, explain to me the 'other side' or the 'polemic' as you put it regarding this issue ... WITHOUT the reason stemming from any kind of religious premise.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

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"Explain to me the ´other side´ or the ´polemic´".

So, in your view, it is me that is supposed to put forth & articulate the views of people whose opinions on the matter I oppose? Also, do you think that laws should be passed down without hearing out "the other side" first? Or, for that matter, that those shrieking religious lunatics or people who financially benefit from euthanasia remaining illegal we see in the film, are solely representative of the "anti-euthanasia" sentiment; that there is no more intelligent, more articulate opposition out there than that?



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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So I'll ask again: What, in your opinion, is the 'intelligent, more articulate opposition' to this issue? That is what people like you never actually bring to the table.

There's no substance. Just lip service.



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"What, in your opinion, is the ´intelligent, more articulate opposition´ to this issue".

One that is not yelled at me by raving lunatics, for starters.


"That is what people like you never actually bring to table".

I already told you it is not my job to make up arguments from a point of view I do not support - I might as well ask YOU to argue the anti-euthanasia position. The point, however, is that presenting only the lowest or most corrupt element of the opposition does nobody any favours. And the film becomes overt propaganda instead of level-headed examination of the issue at hand. Even if it´s propaganda for a good cause.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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I rest my case. Again, just more lip service. You'd make a fantastic politician.

I will try for the last time to explain it to you:

I've already argued my position, and it's quite simple actually. I believe euthanasia should be completely, fully, 100% legal because people should have the right to choose to die instead of suffering with horrible conditions you and I cannot even begin to imagine. The tangible reason for my belief is pain and suffering. That's why people should have the freedom to make this choice without governmental (or any other) intrusion.

Now, I'll turn to you. You believe there is a counter-argument to this; one that doesn't stem from religious dogma. I'm still waiting to read it. I don't believe there is one. In fact I'm flat out stating there is not, and that this issue should be a no-brainer while you apparently believe there should be some 'level-headed examination.'

So ... instead of hiding behind smoke and mirrors, explain to me what I'm not seeing. In other words, why should there be a 'level-headed examination' to this issue when there is no level-headed counter argument? Do you believe there should be a 'level-headed examination' as to why AIDS or cancer is bad, too? Or a 'level-headed examination' as to why we should make sure children have enough to eat?

I'm willing to examine the other side if it's 'level headed' the way you claim it is. Something tells me though that I'll just get more lip service. I'll get the old, "Why should I have to actually explain the counter-argument? That's not my job! I'll just keep telling you that there are level headed counter-arguments. That's a lot easier and much, much more convenient."

...Honestly, you really should consider a future in politics.

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I think it´s called "film criticism", not "lip service".



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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:facepalm:

But your criticism is that the film did not have a 'level headed' counter-argument against euthanasia. My question from post one has been, what exactly is this fabled 'level headed' counter-argument again?

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Yeah that indeed has been your question, hasn´t it?



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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I think you OP, and many others fail to understand that YOU are the opposition.

This film is titled "You Don't Know Jack", not "Hey these guys have a debate". Its purpose was to challenge YOU. YOU already know why YOU are against him. And if you aren't against him, then you do know Jack, and this wasn't for you.

This film presumes (because ehem, it's the law everywhere) that you disagree on some level. It doesn't need to make your point for you.

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The only thing that bothered me a little in "You Don't Know Jack" was that out of all his opponents in the movie there was not at least one intelligent and consistent character. They were all either religiously delusioned or carеer motivated.


Which is pretty much the case in real life, so...

The bitter thinkers buy their tickets to go find God like a piggy in a fair

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Agree 100%. I think some of the commenters only skimmed what you wrote, by the fact that they're weighing only the basic question of physician assisted suicide, whether or not it should be legal, period. But (if I understand right), your view as a physician is that you know from firsthand experience about the suffering of some terminal patients and so you agree with the basic legality question, but took issue with the movie's raw advocacy of a guy going around helping people commit suicide without a broader system of checks and balances. Yeah?
Probably some people would argue, 'Why should any checks and balances be required for a person deciding on his own end-of-life? It's HIS life (or HER life)."
This is essentially like marijuana prohibition. Nowadays a majority of people agree the law should not prohibit a person from using it, because it's their life after all. The problem comes in when you consider specifics, like the very important question of procurement--Should people who offer it face any legal requirements? Sure some would say, "No! Free market. Safe drug. Nobody else's business!" But come on. If your grocery store has to add sales tax to tomatoes for which they barely make a profit, why shouldn't a rolling-in-cash marijuana retailer have to? And more importantly, shouldn't he have to verify that the buyer is of legal age? Should buyers be allowed to resell? Should there be purchase limits, pricing regulations, advertisement regulations? Should retailers be allowed to discriminate based on race, religion, sexual preference, etc.? So, by beating this dead horse, hopefully I've illustrated that while marijuana legalization seems a no-brainer, there are complexities that must be addressed in any place it becomes legal to not only use but sell. No logic would give the green light to any ol' guy prowling the neighborhood to sell from his van. We still don't want HIM, even if we want weed.
But that's essentially what Kevorkian did, van and all. Even if HE had stringent, self-imposed criteria (who, what, why?), who's to say the next guy would? Unregulated freelance suicide assistance could mean somebody sad about a breakup faking terminal illness and dying unnecessarily. Or somebody being denied assistance because they don't "seem" miserable enough. Would health insurance companies balk at the idea of paying for suicide, or love it (probalby cost them less than would-be remaining end-of-life costs)? Would the cost of assisted living create pressure to choose assisted dying sooner after diagnosis than a person might be ready, if they didn't have this option?
As with most controversial subjects, in most media P.A.S. gets reduced to oversimplified arguments, at best. At worst, it becomes catch phrases that have lost their meaning, words people don't even understand, beyond using them to tell conservatives apart from liberals (yes, I'm talking about you, "death panels").
The movie about J.K. may not have addressed all the necessary questions, but hopefully the man put us on the path to facing them, slow, steep and winding as it is.

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